Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Classics

[BellyTank]

Did you see the customized, Hot Rodded Airflow on eBay?

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[Thursby]

My 2 cents........

Just time to add my two cents: I have to agree with some of the others, I like most types, styles of cars. At the moment I am restoring one of my own, and I work at a place that I get to see many types of cars and parts pass through my hands. So I could take a Rod, a Classic, a Modern, and some Muscle as well.
It all depends, I enjoy any type of car that someone has really put the effort and work into.
Good topic though, very enjoyable everyone.

 

[Mycroft]

You aren't off topic at all. Were talking cars here. A hot rod is an automobile, (car, truck, anything) modified for increased power and speed. Thechnicly, a 1995 Honda Civic with a cold air intake, body kit, spoiler, and a coffee can muffler is as much of a hot rod as 1932 Ford with a Flathead, four-on-the-floor with lake pipes and slicks. A hot rod is more associated with vintage cars though, mostly from the 1920's-1948. 1949 to present cars are called street machines. Muscle cars are street machines. 1948 was the last year for the big fendered cars. Street machines in my opinion is just another form of hot rod, just a 1949 and later vehicle, but has been modifed for power and speed. Over the years hot rods have changed right along with our changing times. The hot rodders began to use more modern approaches to creating the modifications on their cars. Rack and pinion steering, computer machined billet aluminum for manny different parts including wheels, digital gauges, EFI, contemporary colors like pastels, tweed upolstry, bucket seats from modern cars, modern dashes and steering wheels, power everything, etc. etc. etc. Rat Rodders are a bunch of car guys who sort of think like us. They wanted a return to the roots of Hot Rodding. They wanted to do it like the pioneers did it. So instead of the modern stuff, they kept the vintage interiors, or no interior, WWII aircraft seats instead of buckets, basicly nothing modern. These were to be period correct cars. Nothing that wouldn't be found in the 1940's-early 1960's. Some Rat Rodders find the words Rat Rod duragatory. They prefer the term Nostalgia Rod. Some say that the modern hot rodders were calling them Rat rods because they tended to be rusty or primer and they didn't spend as much money on them. Some say Rat Rods are exuses not to put money or quality work into a car. It's all up to us as indeviduals to make what we want of it. I say it's a return to tradition. Tradition just happens to cost less.

Many thanks and cool.

 

[The Wingnut]

My car has been called a rat rod in the past. It's patched together, ugly, dirty. It runs decently and barely costs me anything. It handles GREAT. Not fast, but definitely not slow, either. The drivetrain is an oddball mix of components across the make & model's first generation...motor & trans out of one car, carbs off of another, differential out of another still. It shouldn't have a five speed, but it does. It has 0.2 liters more displacement than it should.

Cars are a means of personal expression to many people. Many people's personal expression leaves something to be desired. I'm sure there aren't many folks on this forum that would go out and buy a Honda, put a 'fart pipe' on it, aftermarket wheels, cheezy intake, stickers all over it, and a loud stereo in it. That's the ideal for some folks. Ridiculous, but it's theirs.

Given the choice, the Datsun would be my beater and I'd have somthing prewar taking up the rest of the space in my driveway under a cover . I'm perpetually broke, though. This is what works for me right now. I sold my patrol car when it got to be too much of a financial burden.

It really doesn't matter what you call your car...it's what your car means to you. Taste is subjective, the majority of us here thankfully share the same taste.

My car by auto industry standards falls into the 'sports car' category. I just call it my little runabout.

 

[BellyTank]

The early Nissan/Datsun 'Z' cars are actually recognized as a true modern classic.

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[jamespowers]

My car has been called a rat rod in the past. It's patched together, ugly, dirty. It runs decently and barely costs me anything. It handles GREAT. Not fast, but definitely not slow, either. The drivetrain is an oddball mix of components across the make & model's first generation...motor & trans out of one car, carbs off of another, differential out of another still. It shouldn't have a five speed, but it does. It has 0.2 liters more displacement than it should.

I think I'll call up Overhauling and have them fix that thing. Then it would be called a hot rod.
It actually looks fine from the outside. I think a rat rod might be a little more gritty---that or keep the car for another twenty years and that should do it.

Regards to all,

J

 

[The Wingnut]

UGH. Thanks, no thanks. I hate what that show does.

 

[jamespowers]

UGH. Thanks, no thanks. I hate what that show does.

Hhahahahahah! I figured you would. How about Pimp my Ride?

Regards to all,

J

 

[The Wingnut]

Only if they'll loan me one of these afterward.

 

[jamespowers]

Xibit probably uses that as his daily carry weapon. I doubt that would be a problem. Where can he pick up the car?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Mycroft]

Xibit probably uses that as his daily carry weapon. I doubt that would be a problem. Where can he pick up the car?

Regards to all,

J

Is that a flare gun or grenade launcher?

 

[The Wingnut]

It's an M-79 grenade launcher. Those are the rounds next to it.

 

[Mycroft]

It's an M-79 grenade launcher. Those are the rounds next to it.

Thanks, it looks different in the photo.

 

[Dr. Shocker]

one of the things I often find funny inside the kar kulture circles are the guys who want to restore thier kars vintage......but if you talk to the old hot rod guys when they were building thier kars back in the day the would slap on what ever was the newest koolest thing they could afford......so in a sense if thy could have a fforded billet they would have used it.......nice touch of irony since the new guys all hate billet.....

 

[Story]

http://jalopnik.com/5331597/the-paint-and-chrome-artwork-of-billetproof-texas/gallery/

 

[David Conwill]

Oh boy, the old hot rod/street rod/rat rod/trad rod debate, with the “1949 question” mixed in. This has been going on for years. Let me see... I’m 27, I’ve been reading old-car magazines since about first or second grade, and I can remember even back then that this was a big deal.

The funny thing is that if you go back even further, to say 1958-1962, a modified car was either a “hot rod” or a “custom” and there was no such thing as a “street machine.” “Street Machine” and “Street Rod,” if used, merely designated a car modified for performance that was driven on the street (as compared with a competition-only machine).

Let me offer my perspective, which is all I can do as there’s no consensus:

A “hot rod” is a vehicle modified for increased engine power. A “custom” is a vehicle modified for different looks. If the two are mixed, the owner’s intent prevails (i.e. a ‘49 Mercury that looks like the Hirohata car is a “custom” even if it’s got a dual-quad, solid-lifter, big-block Chevrolet V8 instead of the flathead, whereas a Ford Model A like the Purple People Eater is a “hot rod” even though it’s as much about looks as it is performance). I tend to believe that the origin of the name is a shortened version of “hot roadster” and has nothing to do with connecting rods or pushrods.

A “street rod” isn’t what it used to be. “Street rod” has become a build style. Prior to about 1999 only cars built before 1949 could be “street rods” and the rest were “street machines.” I think this silly difference came about during the “Early Iron” revivals of the 1960s and 1970s. In any case, it’s dying the death it deserves. My guess is that it was a reaction to the factory high performance and “muscle cars” that came out of Detroit in the 1950s, ‘60s, and early ‘70s. Guys modifying early cars wanted to set their efforts apart from those who were tweaking already good-performing cars. They were all still hot rodders, but the early iron guys were “street rodders.”

Today street rods are about producing a sort of sport touring car - they’re as much about luxury and showing off as they are about performance. They tend to ape late-model performance cars in their appointments - electronic fuel injection, cushy interiors, modern paint schemes and graphics, large diameter alloy wheels, etc., but all wrapped in some kind of vintage sheetmetal (or reproduction thereof). I’ve never liked them very well, as my feeling was that if I wanted a modern high-performance car, I’d buy one. I like seeing that I’m surrounded by vintage parts and the feeling I get when I drive a vintage car.

“Rat rod” is a term that gets abused a lot. Seems like any car that gets sprayed flat black gets called a “rat rod,” and that’s probably correct. To me rat rods are about shock value - rat rodders are aping B-movie youth culture from the ‘50s, and part of that is driving a dangerous-looking old car (and this can be dangerous-looking to the driver, other drivers, pedestrians, or some combination thereof). It seems to be very much connected to the punk-rockabilly movement, of which I’m not a part (though I do enjoy certain aspects), so I’ve got little firsthand experience with the culture of rat rods.

Finally there’s traditional hot rods and customs, which is where I’d identify myself. These guys range from almost restorer/reenactor like in their attempts to reproduce a “pure” hot rod of a given time frame (it’s common to brag “I’ve got no parts on here later than 1954"), to those who are just generally mimicking the aesthetic of old hot rods (some border on street rodders). I’m somewhere in the middle.

I also love and appreciate stock old cars, and some in the traditional rod movement (Mark Morton of Hop Up magazine springs to mind) have pointed out that we’ve got a lot more in common with the restorers than we do with the rest of the hot rod movement. Though I’m certain that if I picked up something like the bone-stock ‘32 Ford coupe illustrated early in this thread, I’d have to do something to personalize it - probably dual carburetors and reversed-eye springs - but nothing permanent.

Make sense?

-Dave

Edit: Oh, I forgot to address the old “if billet were around in the ‘40s” argument that reared its ugly head. I think this misses the point - if billet were around in the ‘40s (and it was, they just called it “machined aluminum”) it would have been a lot better looking than it is today. The objection to “billet” rods is that they’re built in a modern style, not that they have good technology in them. You can also substitute "radial tires", "EFI", or a whole gamut of modern parts that are usually ugly in there.

 

[BellyTank]

I tend to believe that the origin of the name is a shortened version of “hot roadster” and has nothing to do with connecting rods or pushrods.

I've heard this one but I'd like to believe that the term stems from connecting rods(or at least not from "Roadster")- as we both have said, there were no push rods in the early engines that were typically used and those engines containing push rods were somewhat exotic, not the norm.
Con rods were, however, a constant point of failure in hopped up engines- con rods and crank shafts.

"Hot" could refer to a burnt/destroyed/run rod bearing, or a broken rod, or a rod exiting the engine block, or it could have something to do with modified con rods, as engines were sometimes built up from non-standard combinations of
block, crank and pistons, requiring the rods and/or crank, being re-worked to make the reciprocating assembly function.
Or even "hot", pertaining to foundry work- forged rods, welding, heat treatment for increased strength and durability...
I could go on.
Hot meaning modified, worked, breathed on, machined, heated, etc..

Was the word, "hot" actually used in those days, to describe something other than temperature?
Did people use "hot", in the '30s and '40s in the way Paris Hilton does today(or maybe the way she did 3 years ago).
"Ooohh... that Roadster is hot"

That roadster is HOT! Would someone have said that?
Or was it a "Hot Roadster", as in a stolen Roadster, stolen for the purpose of removing the fenders and hood and racing..?

Hot damn! was an expression, back in the day.
Hot also meant stolen. A rod was a slang term for a gun.

A Stolen Gun!
Stolen engine parts,... rods... ?

But then I don't think everyone spoke in 1930s slang, in the '30s and '40s,
although giving everything a cheesy nickname was popular.

I'd like to think the term, "Hot Rod" was a bit more nuts and bolts.
Although I do like Roadsters, a lot.
And Bellytanks.


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[David Conwill]

Well, if we wanna get further into this discussion, it's worth noting that Dean Batchelor’s book proclaims “Before ‘The War’ they didn’t call them ‘hot rods’.” Which is, near as I can determine, true. It was mainly “hop up,” “gow job,” “supe up,” or “supe job.”

The golden-era term for “rat rod,” incidentally, is “jalopy.”

My problem with the “rod = connecting rod” explanation is that heavy-duty connecting rods are a more modern thing - unless you mean doing things like swapping in OX-5 aero engine parts, or Wills-St. Claire V8 reciprocating assemblies. The majority of hot rods running the dry lakes in the 1940s were, I’m sure, equipped with original Ford connecting rods. Heck, a lot of flatheads today are running OE con rods.

-Dave

 

[BellyTank]

Yes, I'm sure many of the cars running had stock engine internals.
BUT some of the famous "hot rods" of the lakes, in the '30s did have exotic engine combinations, so, as extreme examples of the "sport", they could cause such a name to be coined. The term wouldn't be coined after the average, every-day car but something more special and impressive, surely.

I don't think I was meaning heavy duty rods, specifically- just that they could have been worked on. Although there was a bit of speed gear for Ford and other engines- especially T engines but their heyday was well pre-war.
It was primarily a do-it-yerself hobby but their were a lot of people with good mechanical, engineering and metallurgical skills.

I've read Dean Batchelor's book, the one that you have quoted and a good few others.

Have you read "The Birth of Hot Rodding- the story of the dry lakes era"?
A good read and full of great photos.


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[David Conwill]

Have you read "The Birth of Hot Rodding- the story of the dry lakes era"?
A good read and full of great photos.

Yes, I love that book. I owned it before I owned the Bachelor book. I'd like to someday pick up the Don Montgomery books, as they seem to be the ones that gave a big boost to nostalgia rodding.

-Dave