Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[Seb Lucas]

I've never been aware of this, all I know is we do say we stock 'heavy front quarter horsehide' which is true, but believe me if we knew someone was advertising it as 4oz we'd have discussed it then and there.

If you are concerned, regardless of date, please email me.

Take care with what you say, Holly. Leave that for the courts. This is a public forum and you don't want your words used against you.

 

[andyfalzon]

there is a much simpler way to distinguish horse from steer and it's neither the size of the skin nor the grain
anyone can do it, without being a cutter or a leather expert

 

[cloudylemonade]

there is a much simpler way to distinguish horse from steer and it's neither the size of the skin nor the grain
anyone can do it, without being a cutter or a leather expert

What is your suggestion?

 

[Seb Lucas]

there is a much simpler way to distinguish horse from steer and it's neither the size of the skin nor the grain
anyone can do it, without being a cutter or a leather expert

Classy Andy. Just walk into all this drama, put it out there and then walk off. You obviously want to build suspense and have us beg you, oh wise sage of leather to reveal your great wisdom.

 

[andyfalzon]

wait a minute please, I will complete the reply when I find the photos I want to go with it

 

[Rudie]

It's easy. The hooves are different and horses don't have horns.

 

[andyfalzon]

Suppliers could trick you by selling you something else, but we at Bill Kelso check the horsehides we buy from Italy and they all have the so-called "track of the mane" which is the mark left on the hide after the horse's mane is removed. It is visible at both sides of the hide.

Here it is on the underside shown in red circle



and here it is on another hide

 

[cloudylemonade]

Suppliers could trick you by selling you something else, but we at Bill Kelso check the horsehides we buy from Italy and they all have the so-called "track of the mane" which is the mark left on the hide after the horse's mane is removed. It is visible at both sides of the hide.

Here it is on the underside shown in red circle

View attachment 304

and here it is on another hide

View attachment 305

Thanks anyway Andy, but that isn't going to help us identify jackets really.

 

[cuthbert]

That's interesting, Andy, but not useful for guys who have a complete jacket like me.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Somehow..don't think Aero has any trouble identifiying hides they get in from a supplier. Afterall they've been at this for a long time..[huh]

 

[andyfalzon]

Sure it can't be seen after the jacket is made. But a jacket maker always knows what hides he uses.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Sure it can't be seen after the jacket is made. But a jacket maker always knows what hides he uses.

Exactly, which is why we've put up this statement. Will Lauder, and the cutter at that time knew exactly what they were doing!

 

[Sloan1874]

Always helps to read from the start of a thread before leaping in...

 

[majormajor]

So, the $64000 question is "is there such a thing as 4 oz horsehide, and have Aero ever said they use it".....and if THEY didn't say, who did??

First of all, here is a thread on this site, where it is stated by FL members, at least once, that Aero FQHH is 4 oz. So maybe the rumour started here?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?38817-What-is-the-ounce-weight-of-the-FQHH-Aero-uses&

Second, we have a page from Horween, discussing this very subject, where they do mention HH in weights higher than 3 oz

http://horween.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/by-request-whats-the-difference/

Next, here's a page from a leather suppliers site describing HH in 5/7 oz. So the stuff certainly exists...

http://zackwhite.com/xcart/product.php?productid=20377

And finally, a page explaining that the simple way to gauge the weight is to measure the thickness - i.e 1 oz equals 1/64th of an inch, so multiply the 64ths to get the weight.

http://www.macphersonleather.com/about_leather.htm

 

[wdw]

It's interesting that none of the purchasers seemed to notice the difference, especially after all the minutiae regarding grain etc that's gone into on this site. Goat yes, steer no, it seems.

Also very upfront of Aero, as they could easily have swept this under the carpet with the odd individual agreement which would never have seen the light of day. This way, only Aero stand to lose in the short term, with the minimum being presumably refunds of the price differential to unwitting buyers. Long term of course, this can only enhance Aero's reputation for straight dealing, so it's not all bad.

Hopefully those buyers who never noticed and who were presumably happy with their jackets won't insist on expensive returns and rebuilds, adding yet more time on to the already lengthening waiting list.

 

[cloudylemonade]

So, the $64000 question is "is there such a thing as 4 oz horsehide, and have Aero ever said they use it".....and if THEY didn't say, who did??

Second, we have a page from Horween, discussing this very subject, where they do mention HH in weights higher than 3 oz

http://horween.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/by-request-whats-the-difference/

Sorry, where I've said horsehide over 3oz doesn't exist I should have clarified front quarter horsehide, which is the only horsehide we stock, besides A-2 horsehide, and the leather in question here.

Horween quotes "The strip (a.k.a. bark strip, russet horsehide strip, natural horsebutt strip, north of cordovan, and others) is thick relative to the front, and typically ranges from 4 – 10 oz, or 1.6 mm to 4 mm."

The Strip, is generally what is used for belts etc, and something we've never bought.

 

[Dav]

Hmmm, this is all very interesting, think I'll have to send in some picks of the Teamster I received last month.

 

[majormajor]

Sorry, where I've said horsehide over 3oz doesn't exist I should have clarified front quarter horsehide, which is the only horsehide we stock, besides A-2 horsehide, and the leather in question here.

Horween quotes "The strip (a.k.a. bark strip, russet horsehide strip, natural horsebutt strip, north of cordovan, and others) is thick relative to the front, and typically ranges from 4 – 10 oz, or 1.6 mm to 4 mm."

The Strip, is generally what is used for belts etc, and something we've never bought.

Hi Holly. My apologies. You are completely right there.

But in this link:


http://www.lostworldsinc.com/Motorcycle_Jacket_Leather_Horsehide_Suburban.htm

Lost Worlds specifically say that their jacket is made from "super heavyweight 4+ oz. horsehide". So I can only imagine that they are using some other part, not the front quarter. Would that make sense? I know you guys are the experts, so hopefully, there is a simple explanation

 

[cloudylemonade]

Hmmm, this is all very interesting, think I'll have to send in some picks of the Teamster I received last month.

Please do tho hopefully if it went out within the last month it wouldn't have been affected.

 

[cuthbert]

Please do tho hopefully if it went out within the last month it wouldn't have been affected.

Holly, mine was built on april 2012...did you get the picture?