Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through

[sshack]

Appreciate the tip, FredS, but the last thing I want to apply on an expensive jacket like this is shoe polish, lol.

Happy to report that Aero has replied to my inquiry. I'll let you know what happens... perhaps in another thread. This one is getting too long!

 

[Jeff M]

Rather than shoe polish..I'd go with a touch of Pecard's.

 

[Cyber Lip]

I think you guys are beating a dead horse lollol:deadhorse:whip:

 

[Cyber Lip]

When I first got my aero black HH cafe racer I wore it around the house for about a week before wearing it out. I noticed that the underside of the right sleeve developed color wear-through immediately from my arm resting on the top of the desk while on the computer. Imagine how tough and cool I feel when people see the wear received from when I used a mouse

Also, I noticed after the first or second time I wore a hoodie with it that the edge of the collar was losing color just from the hood of the hoodie resting on top of it. This was like I said after like twice, not after years of wearing a hoodie.

 

[sshack]

When I first got my aero black HH cafe racer I wore it around the house for about a week before wearing it out. I noticed that the underside of the right sleeve developed color wear-through immediately from my arm resting on the top of the desk while on the computer. Imagine how tough and cool I feel when people see the wear received from when I used a mouse

Also, I noticed after the first or second time I wore a hoodie with it that the edge of the collar was losing color just from the hood of the hoodie resting on top of it. This was like I said after like twice, not after years of wearing a hoodie.

Interesting... my wear basically occurred from sitting with the jacket on, making coffee, etc. No hot water treatment or anything like that.

How old is your jacket, Cyber? Do you have any pics in its current state?

 

[Cyber Lip]

It's about a year old now. I'm not really complaining, in fact I have another black aero on the way. But I was surprised, and I wish it didn't happen so fast. I do like the look of brown coming through moreso than a leather jacket that never wears or ages, or a black jacket that wears away to that gray/blue-black color. I think that looks pretty awful.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

Apologies in advance for keeping this undying thread alive! I'll say this: Prior to reading the thread, I had assumed that the black overdye Horween cowhide used by Johnson's Leathers in San Francisco was unique to Johnson's. I now gather that any black chromexel Horween hide is the same. This is good news to me! I love the look that results from the overdye over time.

Just to add some clarification to a crazy thread...

I have multiple items made of black Horween CXL cowhide, including a jacket made of the black overdye variety offered by Johnsons. While the overdye hide is definitely brown underneath, the other items are solid black all the way through, including a pair of Wolverine 1000 Mile boots and a belt obtained via Rancourt & Company. Both of which have taken a beating and show no signs of color fade. Gouges and wrinkles, yes, but color fading, no. The overdye is a different story as it is slowly starting to show some wear to the top overdye coat. Based on this thread, this hide would not appear to be unique to JL only.

In addition, when I ordered CXL horsehide directly from Horween, they sent me a pretty extensive selection of swatches of the varieties of CXL that they had available at the time. Many of them are solid in color all the way through including some of the black, olive and green swatches. Even in the various shades of brown offered you could see definite color differences on the back side of the hides. Based on the "scratch test" there was a fair amount of variety in how each swatch held up, some seemingly much more scratch resistant than others. The one thing that they all have in common is the slightly waxy feel to the surface of the hide.

To sum things up, there are a lot of different options when it comes to Chromexcel offered by Horween. The key it would seem is to know what you want, and then to make sure that is what you receive.

 

[bretron]

19 pages in two days- wtf????!!!

 

[Capesofwrath]

Just to add some clarification to a crazy thread...

I have multiple items made of black Horween CXL cowhide, including a jacket made of the black overdye variety offered by Johnsons. While the overdye hide is definitely brown underneath, the other items are solid black all the way through, including a pair of Wolverine 1000 Mile boots and a belt obtained via Rancourt & Company. Both of which have taken a beating and show no signs of color fade. Gouges and wrinkles, yes, but color fading, no. The overdye is a different story as it is slowly starting to show some wear to the top overdye coat. Based on this thread, this hide would not appear to be unique to JL only.

In addition, when I ordered CXL horsehide directly from Horween, they sent me a pretty extensive selection of swatches of the varieties of CXL that they had available at the time. Many of them are solid in color all the way through including some of the black, olive and green swatches. Even in the various shades of brown offered you could see definite color differences on the back side of the hides. Based on the "scratch test" there was a fair amount of variety in how each swatch held up, some seemingly much more scratch resistant than others. The one thing that they all have in common is the slightly waxy feel to the surface of the hide.

To sum things up, there are a lot of different options when it comes to Chromexcel offered by Horween. The key it would seem is to know what you want, and then to make sure that is what you receive.

Not so easy if you aren't buying directly from the tannery but from a maker.

Most like Aero hold a limited number of types of hides and as we know the hide supplied changes slightly from batch to batch and more so over the years. The black CX they have now must from the accounts of the above members be less hard wearing than my ten years old coat which is only showing the brown base on a couple of small areas of scuffing on the arms. That's borne out by the comparison a poster did with newer and older samples.

It's very possible that Horween has made the hide less stable deliberately because the jacket makers believe that is what their customers want. Aero has always made a point of some of their leathers acquiring an appearance of age fairly quickly to go with the retro design of most of their jackets. With people now wanting instant results in everything I can see that they might possibly have gone that way in this.

Not to my taste though. I'd rather my jackets look nicely beaten up after long years of hard wear not a few months sitting around bars.

 

[sshack]

Not to my taste though. I'd rather my jackets look nicely beaten up after long years of hard wear not a few months sitting around bars.

Agreed. I was looking forward to the process of "getting to know" this jacket over the course of many years. The fact that this jacket looks this weathered in 2 months (from sitting mostly) does not leave me with a good feeling. I guess the word that comes to mind is "gimmicky." Which is the last thing I expected from Horween CXL.

 

[Edward]

It sort of amuses me that not so long ago this place seemed to be full of threads with folks wanting to know how to break in a jacket and age it up much faster than is natural; here we seem to be going in the other direction. Personally, I prefer my black jackets to stay black too. I'm not big on the excessive wear thing on any jacket, really (one reason I like goat so much in an A2, I suppose). The take-home lesson is obviously to make sure to make an informed choice in relation to the specific hide you select. I've been considering Horween steer for a future project, in part owing to the saving over FQHH, but I'd certainly want to make sure it didn't wear away to brown. It's certainly a look I've seen on many old jackets I've handled, just not for me.

FWIW, someboy mentioned various ways of darkening jackets.... I did years ago buy a perfecto style jacket in a charity shop for a tenner. It was well broken in and quite faded, but a few evenings with black boot polish brought it up like new. It needed that done every couple of years, though, to maintain it. Used a proprietary product for restoring colour on another black jacket, and it worked a charm - brought it up like new, and it lasted (not hard to find this sort of thing - mostly aimed at the vintage car market, and available in all the colours you're likely to have a leather jacket in). Pecards is fantastic stuff for bringing a dried out old jacket back to life, but in my experience it doesn't have any significant effect on colour once it has properly dried in.

 

[Capesofwrath]

It sort of amuses me that not so long ago this place seemed to be full of threads with folks wanting to know how to break in a jacket and age it up much faster than is natural; here we seem to be going in the other direction. Personally, I prefer my black jackets to stay black too. I'm not big on the excessive wear thing on any jacket, really (one reason I like goat so much in an A2, I suppose). The take-home lesson is obviously to make sure to make an informed choice in relation to the specific hide you select. I've been considering Horween steer for a future project, in part owing to the saving over FQHH, but I'd certainly want to make sure it didn't wear away to brown. It's certainly a look I've seen on many old jackets I've handled, just not for me.

I don't think it's just the CX steer though. My over ten years old Vesta de Rallye is made of black FQHH and is showing a little brown through some small scuffs. Perfectly normal and quite nice.

The posters who were complaining about premature colour loss were also talking about FQHH I believe too. As was the poster who compared samples from different years and found that new ones were easier to remove colour from.

 

[Plumbline]

NOTE ... the surface dying which is applied to CXL steerhide is IDENTICAL to that applied to CXL Horsehide and the wear will be almost identical IMHO. I have Horween steer and FQHH and veg tanned HH from various eras ( 80's, 90's, 00's and current decades ) and while there are differences in thicknesses and they have different grades or wear the finish is consistant for all decades and the latest CXL steer offerings are showing little difference from any other decades. The CXL steer and horse when new is shiney and stif but ages to a mat almost dull finish and the topcoat wears t show the basecoat below particularly on high points or areas of high wear. My latest AL CXL steer jackets have shown no different wear than ay other Horween jacket and the 20013 Roadster is wearing in exactly like my 2007 Aero FQHH CXL Highwayman. My most recently made Aero is a 2010 HB Deluxe and it shows no different wear to any of my CXL jackets - Horse or Steer ( albeit the steer tends to soften a little quicker than the horse ... but this tends to be more a feature of thickness rather than genetics IMHO) .

As with all leather materials this is different for different jackets and even down to specific panels within the same jacket .... this is the nature of Horween CXL, it's a natural hand finished product and hand surface dyed ( not vat dipped) ... the surface coating is durable but not everlasting and naturally wears to show the basecoat ( which is generally a dark brown colour or if scraped when new a lighter brown ( but which naturally darkens with wear). It wears very differently to veg tanned and vat dyed leather which is much more consistant and when scraped will not show a different base colour .... as mentioned before this is a matter of consumer choice.

HTH

 

[Cyber Lip]

I just had an important thought. I just bought a couple wool scarves. Will wool be more abrasive to the color than anything else? I'm wondering if it will take the color right off the collar

 

[scrawlysteve]

If it helps--I've just rubbed some black Horween CXL (an AL sample) for 5 minutes (got bored at this point) quite firmly with my Sou'west Chunkies Gansey. This is knitted from Herdwick -- which is the carborundum of the wool world....I could detect no visible surface change in either the leather or the wool. YMMV....

 

[gtdean48]

Did Sears use Horween CXL horsehide for the Hercules jackets?
I have what I'm calling a 50's Halfbelt (pattern matches up with my Aero 50s HB).
It is not near as heavy.

 

[scrawlysteve]

...And....speaking of changes and important thoughts.....didn't the ancient Chinese philosophers tell us that the only constant in the universe-the only thing that never changes-- is that everything is always changing.....

( They might exclude goatskin jackets though....)

 

[Sloan1874]

(And Shinki.)

 

[scrawlysteve]

Your wisdom is a mighty ocean, Grasshopper.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Did Sears use Horween CXL horsehide for the Hercules jackets?
I have what I'm calling a 50's Halfbelt (pattern matches up with my Aero 50s HB).
It is not near as heavy.

No I don't think so. I've got a Montgomery shearling lined jacket from the forties and it's made of lighter HH than that. I had to take it apart and remake it once and I saw exactly how well it was made, and it was fairly utilitarian. They were not high end brands like the best makers today. But they didn't need to be made of shoe leather to last a lifetime either.

IMO the modern fetish for as thick and heavy as you can get on your back is a little like drunks in a curry house trying to outdo each other in the hottest curry they can eat before one falls onto the floor with a coronary. You see them sweating buckets, red and gasping and telling each other how much they are enjoying it.