Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through

[handymike]

My vintage Hercules is a mid weight hide as well, although the Steerhide they used was substantial.

 

[gtdean48]

No I don't think so. I've got a Montgomery shearling lined jacket from the forties and it's made of lighter HH than that. I had to take it apart and remake it once and I saw exactly how well it was made, and it was fairly utilitarian. They were not high end brands like the best makers today. But they didn't need to be made of shoe leather to last a lifetime either.

IMO the modern fetish for as thick and heavy as you can get on your back is a little like drunks in a curry house trying to outdo each other in the hottest curry they can eat before one falls onto the floor with a coronary. You see them sweating buckets, red and gasping and telling each other how much they are enjoying it.

My vintage Hercules is a mid weight hide as well, although the Steerhide they used was substantial.

Thanks. I didn't think so but didn't know if it may have been a different grade.
I've got moccasins comparable to my Aero FQHH but really like the Hercules FQHH.
Wish it was a tad bigger. Maybe my son will wear it. Was listed as a 44, hoped it was at least a 42 but looks like it's a 40.

 

[Edward]

Thanks. I didn't think so but didn't know if it may have been a different grade.
I've got moccasins comparable to my Aero FQHH but really like the Hercules FQHH.
Wish it was a tad bigger. Maybe my son will wear it. Was listed as a 44, hoped it was at least a 42 but looks like it's a 40.

Sounds like the usual eBay malaise: "Well, it measure 44" around the chest, so that must mean it's a size 44!"

 

[gtdean48]

Right Edward. Like another tagged size 44 but stated pit to pit was 21"

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk

 

[sshack]

My latest AL CXL steer jackets have shown no different wear than ay other Horween jacket and the 20013 Roadster is wearing in exactly like my 2007 Aero FQHH CXL Highwayman. My most recently made Aero is a 2010 HB Deluxe and it shows no different wear to any of my CXL jackets - Horse or Steer ( albeit the steer tends to soften a little quicker than the horse ... but this tends to be more a feature of thickness rather than genetics IMHO) .

As with all leather materials this is different for different jackets and even down to specific panels within the same jacket .... this is the nature of Horween CXL, it's a natural hand finished product and hand surface dyed ( not vat dipped) ... the surface coating is durable but not everlasting and naturally wears to show the basecoat ( which is generally a dark brown colour or if scraped when new a lighter brown ( but which naturally darkens with wear). It wears very differently to veg tanned and vat dyed leather which is much more consistant and when scraped will not show a different base colour .... as mentioned before this is a matter of consumer choice.

HTH

Plumb, have appreciated your comments, but my FQHH Highwayman seems to be performing much differently from yours. My shoulders and sleeves are showing excessive wear. This isn't really a matter of consumer choice, as I chose my Horween leather based off of a sample, and the jacket is not aging anything like the sample. I have some more pics that show lots of wear on the sleeves... I'll start a new thread soon.

 

[FredS]

My final contribution to the thread I started.

Just received an answer from Nick Horween himself in response to my query.


Fred,


Thank you for your message.

We offer our Chromexcel in both natural back (as you have seen) and mill-dyed, or struck through. The only difference between the two leathers is a dye feed during the tanning process. Traditionally, Chromexcel is a natural backed leather. I own both jackets and footwear that is natural backed, and they perform very well.

Best Regards,
Nick Horween

 

[Cyber Lip]

Any chance this color loss is due to the leather being new? Maybe the dye isn't fully cured. Just a guess.

 

[Greenbird]

Plumb, have appreciated your comments, but my FQHH Highwayman seems to be performing much differently from yours. My shoulders and sleeves are showing excessive wear. This isn't really a matter of consumer choice, as I chose my Horween leather based off of a sample, and the jacket is not aging anything like the sample. I have some more pics that show lots of wear on the sleeves... I'll start a new thread soon.

Sorry to make my first post on this site negative, but I have to agree with sshack. I purchased two Aeros from Thurston/Insurrection a couple of months apart this past summer. I have worn both equally. Both black FQHH. The first one looks good, shows some dings and wear, but what I would characterize as normal.

The second, newer jacket is showing grey, probably soon to be white, on contact surfaces, like sshack's jacket. I forwarded to Thurston a link to this thread with sshack's photo and they insist this is normal wear. I responded that the issue was the short time and light usage resulting in this amount of wear -- this might be normal if the jacket was a few years old or something, not a few weeks.

So I am not too happy with the allegedly outstanding customer service from Thurston -- they were very helpful when I was ordering and buying but not helpful when this problem with the one jacket arose.

I understand that lots of folks might like the quick wear, makes the repro jackets look more vintage. But the second jacket I ordered was to obtain a repro of a specific type of old police jacket. I have an old, original Cal Leathers police horsehide jacket that was beat to heck on duty and it did not wear like this Aero repro is wearing. Thurston told me when selling me the jacket that this was the most accurate repro, but when the problem arose they basically told me tough (my words, not theirs, but that was the implication because they were not going to refund my money or even replace the jacket).

Like I said, maybe the majority of buyers like this super-quick wear, but it is not what I thought I was buying. This no heirloom jacket that you can hand down -- it will be white by that time.

 

[Carrie @ Thurston Bros.]

Sorry to make my first post on this site negative, but I have to agree with sshack. I purchased two Aeros from Thurston/Insurrection a couple of months apart this past summer. I have worn both equally. Both black FQHH. The first one looks good, shows some dings and wear, but what I would characterize as normal.

The second, newer jacket is showing grey, probably soon to be white, on contact surfaces, like sshack's jacket. I forwarded to Thurston a link to this thread with sshack's photo and they insist this is normal wear. I responded that the issue was the short time and light usage resulting in this amount of wear -- this might be normal if the jacket was a few years old or something, not a few weeks.

So I am not too happy with the allegedly outstanding customer service from Thurston -- they were very helpful when I was ordering and buying but not helpful when this problem with the one jacket arose.

I understand that lots of folks might like the quick wear, makes the repro jackets look more vintage. But the second jacket I ordered was to obtain a repro of a specific type of old police jacket. I have an old, original Cal Leathers police horsehide jacket that was beat to heck on duty and it did not wear like this Aero repro is wearing. Thurston told me when selling me the jacket that this was the most accurate repro, but when the problem arose they basically told me tough (my words, not theirs, but that was the implication because they were not going to refund my money or even replace the jacket).

Like I said, maybe the majority of buyers like this super-quick wear, but it is not what I thought I was buying. This no heirloom jacket that you can hand down -- it will be white by that time.

You were asked to provide photos or send the jacket back to us so we could assess the situation. You did neither. You ended our correspondence with three words, "End of Discussion."

If you'd like to allow us to assess the wear to your jacket, you need to either

A) Provide us with photos

or

B) send the jacket back to us

By doing either A or B, this will allow us to assess the situation. As we informed you, Aero is amenable to a remake if the wear is abnormal. However, we cannot assess the situation blindly or based on photos of another person's jacket.

 

[Greenbird]

You were asked to provide photos or send the jacket back to us so we could assess the situation. You did neither. You ended our correspondence with three words, "End of Discussion."

If you'd like to allow us to assess the wear to your jacket, you need to either

A) Provide us with photos

or

B) send the jacket back to us

By doing either A or B, this will allow us to assess the situation. As we informed you, Aero is amenable to a remake if the wear is abnormal. However, we cannot assess the situation blindly or based on photos of another person's jacket.

I sent you the link to the photo posted by sshack which showed the same instant wear as my jacket. You responded that you and Aero considered this "normal", i.e., there would be no remedy forthcoming. If you now are willing to acknowledge that this instant wear is not normal (obviously, it is not), we can further discuss. But there was, and is, no point in discussing if you are going to insist that this wear is normal.

 

[Highwaymanman]

If you have a problem with any particular product you've purchased you can't very well expect the vendor to remedy the situation if you only refer to a particular example that somebody else purchased i.e. something other than the product that is giving you the issue.

What planet does that make sense on?

 

[handymike]

Greenbird, show everyone what you're talking about.
Pictures go a long way around here...

 

[sshack]

Hi, Greenbird. Feel free to post a pic-- I agree, it would be helpful. Also, do you have any idea why only one of your black FQHH jackets are showing premature wear? Do you see any difference in the leather texture, thickness, etc? Thanks!


-- Also, FWIW, my own jacket color fade isn't getting any better. I thought there might be a limit to the fading, but that's not the case. The fading got more pronounced on the sleeves and there is now fading on the large back panel as well. The fading is most apparent when wearing the jacket in the daylight, outside. I think that's why it took me about two months to see it clearly-- I've barely worn the jacket outside (and mostly at night)!

My current remedy? I'm shipping the jacket back to Aero to have a look. I trust they will do whatever is fair. I think I mentioned earlier I was going to post some more pics, but I think I'll hold off for now. I don't want to stir up anything if it's just a fluke that can easily be resolved. I've only had very good experiences working with Holly over there.

 

[Greenbird]

Here is a photo. Don't know whether I posted it correctly.

 

[Greenbird]

Could not get the photo to post so here is a link to it.

http://s919.photobucket.com/user/di...rt=3&o=0&_suid=138575493500807238719238637857

 

[Sloan1874]

Nowadays you can use the little icon with a tree in it at the top of your Quick Reply box. Select the image from your downloads and it should appear below, like this:

 

[Cooperson]

Sloan - I really didnt know you could do that, great tip!

 

[Carrie @ Thurston Bros.]

Could not get the photo to post so here is a link to it.

http://s919.photobucket.com/user/di...rt=3&o=0&_suid=138575493500807238719238637857

From our perspective, this is perfectly normal wear on a jacket made from Horween CXL. You can see a lightening from the turn of the leather as well as from where the zippers have rubbed the leather. However, we will show this photo to Aero to see what they think. We will be in touch with you regarding Aero's reply.

 

[Sloan1874]

Sloan - I really didnt know you could do that, great tip!

Just discovered it this week. Incidentally, the card holder is made of veg tanned, 4oz burgundy Horween Dublin, hand-stitched with waxed Irish linen thread. Fantastic grain on it!

 

[Greenbird]

Hi, Greenbird. Feel free to post a pic-- I agree, it would be helpful. Also, do you have any idea why only one of your black FQHH jackets are showing premature wear? Do you see any difference in the leather texture, thickness, etc? Thanks!

Sshack:

I have no idea why the 2 jackets are showing such different wear. To be clear, I am not blaming Aero or Thurston for the condition of the jacket. Obviously, this is a leather issue, and neither of them processed the leather. However, I am somewhat irked that I was told, based on the photo link I sent them of your jacket, that this was normal and consistent with the original horsehide police jackets. I own one of those original jackets, and I have another new Aero of the same leather, and neither of those showed that type of instant wear.

When Carrie says in the above post that Thurston considers this normal, that might be true if the jacket was a year or 2 old. For a new jacket with very light usage, this is not true. I am not so much worried about how the jacket looks now, I am worried what it will look like in 5 years.

I also understand the difficult position of the retailer and manufacturer -- everyone agrees that this type of leather shows wear, so what is normal or abnormal becomes a matter of degree. If they start giving refunds for unusual wear, they are putting themselves on a slippery slope. However, that does not help me because basically I got a lemon, and I am not going resell a lemon on ebay or something.