Holy Grail of vintage suits

[Baron Kurtz]

p.s. I would argue that geeking out was exactly what happened in this thread in regards to this suit - discussions of the pockets, yoke, pleating etc. Everyone could see how awesome the features are. I don't think there's a problem with people stating that they don't like them.

 

[Two Types]

It comes down one simple fact: one man's 'Holy Grail' is another man's old clay cup.

 

[DamianM]

It can't be that subjective.

It stand in line of being "Holy grail" just as much as the other mans "holy grail", but its a matter of taste.

You can have a wall of "Holy Grail" suits and this suit and the other will be included in that wall.

What is picked out then becomes the subjective choice but it is my believe the wall is objective to that fact.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, if only because of the rarity of certain suits and jackets, there are ones which are objectively "holy grail".

Like a pre-1950s British beltback jacket (or lawks a lordy, a whole suit!). Even if you don't like the pattern of the cloth, the clumsy cut and poor construction of the jacket etc., it is holy grail, just because it's so rare. I don't think it's possible to argue otherwise. Ordinary American beltbacks are not, because they're so abundant.

 

[herringbonekid]

this is getting deep.

edit: Baron your point is taken.

i suppose why resortes sounded miffed is because there wasn't a chorus of "WOW OMG AMAZING SUIT !" voices, and instead there were some murmurs of disapproval of design specifics. personally, i think that's more interesting.

 

[Two Types]

I have re-read the reactions to this suit and, considering the counter-response, the initial reactions were not really critical. I think most people posting accepted the rarity and the pleasure it must have given the finder (that was exactly the point I made in my first post). But for most people it was too much for them personally. In fact, it generated genuine discussion of certain features. Surely that has to be a good thing.

Whilst I would understand why a serious collector would want to own it, personally I would never want to own it simply because I would never wear it. And that would be a waste of an amazing suit. Thus, whilst I accept it would be a 'holy grail' to those collectors, I can't get excited about it.

Now, looking back through the archive (as I did this afternoon - after being prompted by earlier posts) I saw loads of suits that did excite me - it was just that they tended to be rather plain British 1930s suits. They made me feel jealous - this suit (however rare and exciting it might be) didn't give me that feeling.

 

[resortes805]

i suppose why resortes sounded miffed is because there wasn't a chorus of "WOW OMG AMAZING SUIT !" voices, and instead there were some murmurs of disapproval of design specifics. personally, i think that's more interesting.

HBK pretty much hit the bullseye!

Context is everything, so I guess I should provide some.

I ran into this suit (and the kid that owns it) at a vintage clothing exchange/sale in downtown Los Angeles. The event was ran by collectors and enthusiasts, and the promotion was strictly word of mouth and facebook invites.

Seeing this suit in person, talking to the owner, hearing about how and where he got it, going over and examining the details with other vintage nerds was one my highlights of the event (the other was seeing scores of 1910s and 1920s suits straight from the wardrobe department of Warner Bros).

I had a little booth, sold barely enough to cover my gas expenses, but being able to check out this rare suit in person made it all worth it. I'm sure the guy felt great too, being greeted by, essentially, a chorus of 'WOW OMG AMAZING SUIT.'

A mutual friend of BK and myself emailed BK pics to post on the Lounge for the benefit of Loungers. Seeing such a markedly different reaction to this suit online versus the day I saw it in person was striking to me.

better still, start an invite-only forum where you can vet members before they join.

That's what Facebook is for!

 

[herringbonekid]

(the other was seeing scores of 1910s and 1920s suits straight from the wardrobe department of Warner Bros)

ouch. i knew i should have moved to LA/California many many years ago.

 

[Chasseur]

Sorry for the late post, with traveling and with end the fall term grading I've been a little MIA lately....



I really like that suit actually. For me on suits and sport coats the interesting things are either rare and/or difficult to find modern equivalents to. So anything with crazy pockets, belted or pleated backs (and more!), unusual fabric, etc. So this means I tend to like sport suits rather than business suits. To paraphrase Matt Deckard, "I do not want to make a business suit, I can go buy a plain blue suit anywhere. What I want are those crazy sports suits no one makes anymore."

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Yes, I was busy to0 (moving to a new flat right now) I agree it is a "holy grail" suit especially in the LA context. It's very very american. I actually like the pockets very much. Also reminded me of Clark Gable.


On the discussion why so many users left the FL... I only understand half of it. When M.C. left I still tried to chime in and tell him we really appreciate his knowledge and postings here. But now I think it is up to the individual. The differences between the USA and Europe should be considered when talking about this topic. When half of the LA scene left this forum it left a gap but the european loungers seem to post more now. Maybe the euro suits are less flashy but that's just how we roll.

 

[DamianM]

"I do not want to make a business suit, I can go buy a plain blue suit anywhere. What I want are those crazy sports suits no one makes anymore." ---Matt Deckard

True. like having a white tshirt from the 40s and one today.

 

[Guttersnipe]

. . . bottom line for anyone who is bored/frustrated of the FL and/or doesn't think it measures up to their own levels of vintage passion; the exit is in all directions . . .

Interestingly, though, when certain members and this forum parted ways, the above attitude was mixed very much with a slightly indigent outcry that the same person(s) deleted Photobucket links. The irony in that self-entitlement is pretty amusing . . .

 

[nice hat dude!]

The "Holy Grail"of........doesn't matter the subject but if I only invite people that are interested in my Holy Grail and only want them because their all going to say yes it is and I don't accept opinions of non like minded individuals in my opinion this is a biased opinion and not a general consensus.I said all that to just say why even post on an open to all forum if you don't want the opinions of the general population that may differ from what you want to hear?

 

[YETI]

Yes, I was busy to0 (moving to a new flat right now) I agree it is a "holy grail" suit especially in the LA context. It's very very american. I actually like the pockets very much. Also reminded me of Clark Gable.


On the discussion why so many users left the FL... I only understand half of it. When M.C. left I still tried to chime in and tell him we really appreciate his knowledge and postings here. But now I think it is up to the individual. The differences between the USA and Europe should be considered when talking about this topic. When half of the LA scene left this forum it left a gap but the european loungers seem to post more now. Maybe the euro suits are less flashy but that's just how we roll.

with the exception of the rockabilly types over there of course(and swingers maybe)...

 

[Fastuni]

Except that us suit-discussing Euros over here, FFF is referring to, aren't "Rockabilly".

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There's a crossing of wires going on, I think. Holy Grail doesn't describe something someone is especially interested in, but something astonishingly rare. It's not a subjective classification; a holy grail isn't really sought after as people don't think it'll ever be found. Personally I didn't think I'd ever see one quite like the one posted above.

With that (^^) in mind, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not (I would consider the Christian Holy Grail - the cup - an absurdity, for example, but without doubting that it's a Holy Grail item), and no-one cares if you have negative opinions of the features; that's not what resortes was taking umbrage at … I personally would rather negative opinions with reasons were aired - it makes for a better discussion of these items.

The "Holy Grail"of........doesn't matter the subject but if I only invite people that are interested in my Holy Grail and only want them because their all going to say yes it is and I don't accept opinions of non like minded individuals in my opinion this is a biased opinion and not a general consensus.I said all that to just say why even post on an open to all forum if you don't want the opinions of the general population that may differ from what you want to hear?

 

[herringbonekid]

Interestingly, though, when certain members and this forum parted ways, the above attitude was mixed very much with a slightly indigent outcry that the same person(s) deleted Photobucket links. The irony in that self-entitlement is pretty amusing . . .

you didn't here any indignant outcry from me. i told MC from the start 'do whatever you have to do' to get rid of the grudge he was lugging around.
what i don't like is when a member starts berating other members for not being up to their standards, and for going on and on about how the FL used to be so much better once. frankly i think that comes across as rude and diva-ish, and isn't a polite (or dignified) way to behave in front of new members.

 

[nice hat dude!]

There's a crossing of wires going on, I think. Holy Grail doesn't describe something someone is especially interested in, but something astonishingly rare. It's not a subjective classification; a holy grail isn't really sought after as people don't think it'll ever be found. Personally I didn't think I'd ever see one quite like the one posted above.

With that (^^) in mind, it doesn't really matter if you like it or not (I would consider the Christian Holy Grail - the cup - an absurdity, for example, but without doubting that it's a Holy Grail item), and no-one cares if you have negative opinions of the features; that's not what resortes was taking umbrage at … I personally would rather negative opinions with reasons were aired - it makes for a better discussion of these items.

Hi Baron I tend to agree with you whole heartily on that the "Holy Grail" would mean to be a very rare almost unobtainable item.I think most of us agree with that as a whole,if that was the entire concept of the post then I definitely misinterpreted it,my bad.But if it was posted as an personal opinion then one would feel it would be subjectible to others opinions?Just to add I was always referring to the suit you had posted and no other NHD

PS.I never said it wasn't a nice suit I just personally don't care for the pockets

 

[Two Types]

you didn't here any indignant outcry from me. i told MC from the start 'do whatever you have to do' to get rid of the grudge he was lugging around.
what i don't like is when a member starts berating other members for not being up to their standards, and for going on and on about how the FL used to be so much better once. frankly i think that comes across as rude and diva-ish, and isn't a polite (or dignified) way to behave in front of new members.

I'm pretty much in agreement here. Maybe it's a geographical thing: the falling numbers of US members posting pics of amazing suits may be a cause for concern but, from a personal point of view, I am just happy to celebrate the fact that there is an increasing amount of informed debate about European suits. The arrival of someone like 'Fastuni', who has all of sudden started posting pictures of his collection and asks for peoples thoughts on whether a suit is French or German, allows me to keep faith. I know very little about continental suits (and most of what I know has been learned by reading these threads) but I am so pleased to be able to learn.
I miss the contributions from knowledgable US members but I do not miss it any more than I enjoy reading about German suits. Let's celebrate what we have, not mourn what we have lost.

P.S. I'm just looking forward to some really well-informed Belgian, French, Italian etc members appearing to share their suits with us. And maybe even the eastern Europeans. After all, who wouldn't want to see some 1930s summer suits from the Black Sea riviera?

 

[Two Types]

Back to the main subject (i.e. the suit with the pockets etc): was there any indication of the date it was made? I did check back through the posts but it never seems to have been discussed.