Hitler remains not Hitler.

[Carlisle Blues]

We all have different experiences or perceptions of those experiences that is what makes life interesting.

Offensive???? No in this instance worthless.

Besides I am not addressing those who wish to share their experiences.

I am addressing the ghoulish clowns who wish to capitalize on this as if it were a circus side show.

 

[Viola]

Not flip but flippant is more like it.

If he had the medical problems that he was alleged to have been afflicted with; my choice would be to let him suffer the natural consequences without medical treatment.

I have always known what they meant and I can't really be flippant about it, sorry. Regardless of your stance on the death penalty and its relative justice vs. life in prison, surely you're not equating life in prison with no prosecution whatsoever?

If you read my earlier post you would know that I thought he should have faced the consequences and not committed suicide. Absent that, especially in 2009, I see no real value on this issue for the victims of his atrocities.

I did read your earlier post, btw.

Why in 2009? I know plenty of survivors and next-of-kin still living? What would be acceptable value? They should get nothing, that's more value? They're too old for it to matter? That's a stance, I suppose.

As a human being I see that it will only bring terrible memories back to those who suffered the most. In some it will make then relive that hell, in others it will spark anger and the rest one can only speculate.

I'm very confused by this because I'm pretty sure you don't mean any disrespect but I don't know what you're going for here. I'm not trying to be rude.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I have always known what they meant and I can't really be flippant about it, sorry. Regardless of your stance on the death penalty and its relative justice vs. life in prison, surely you're not equating life in prison with no prosecution whatsoever?



I did read your earlier post, btw.

Why in 2009? I know plenty of survivors and next-of-kin still living? What would be acceptable value? They should get nothing, that's more value? They're too old for it to matter? That's a stance, I suppose.



I'm very confused by this because I'm pretty sure you don't mean any disrespect but I don't know what you're going for here. I'm not trying to be rude.

I will rely on the plain meaning of my statements. [huh] [huh] Interpret them any way you so desire. You are barking up the wrong tree on this one.

 

[Viola]

Was just asking for the sake of clarity, not trying to pick a fight.

 

[Story]

.
One thing's for sure: he's dead now.
.

You sure about that?
(Link contains potty language, brace thyself)
http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/hitler-demotivational-poster.jpg

 

[cookie]

Plenty of Nazi war criminals escaped, even if their boss didn't. If you read Frederick Forsyth's book "The Odessa File" it shows that they felt no guilt at all and went as far as saying they helped Germany. It's more frightening to think that to an extent it was true that in the 1960s no one in Germany really wanted to catch war criminals.

When you see the funeral of Skorzeny in 1979 you appreciate the above remarks.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d2Bw327hBY

I think that the act of suicide being considered heroic vs. cowardly, really depends on the situation and especially the state of mind- sanity/insanity.

Most suicides we hear about, are people of dubious mental condition.

Very succinct BT...that about covers it for suicide.

.

One thing's for sure: he's dead now.

"Can't we get you on Mastermind, Sybil? Next contestant - Sybil Fawlty from Torquay. Special subject - the bleedin' obvious."

 

[Tiller]

One more thing... is suicide an act of bravery or cowardice? I think is more likely an act of cowardice, not wanting to face reality, in his case the loss of the war, so his suicide ( in my eyes at least) was not a noble last stand at all, on the contrary, his biggest last act of cowardice.

That's open to a large amount of interpretation. What about the story of Minamoto no Tametomo? A legendary archer/samurai in ancient Japan. During his final batle after running out of arrows Tametomo decided it was best to take his own life then to allow his enemies to kill him. In order to prove he wasn't doing it out of cowardice, but instead as an act of defiance against his pursuers, he took a tanto and sliced open his stomach in an act of final rebellion dying a slow torturous death. The point of this extraordinary act of suicide was to prove that he was killing himself to save his honor. His act of defiance spread throughout ancient Japan, and into today. When people want to show one last bit of individual defiance in order to keep some aspect of their honor in tact, many Japanese have used this method.

Saigō Takamori, and the samurai who followed his cause took their last stand against modern Japan at the Battle of Shiroyama, during the Satasuma Rebellion. By then only a handful of Saigō's men remained, and they had no more powder for their Enfield Rifles nor for their artillery. Yet the next day they meet the Imperial Army on the battlefield in a battle that was all but choreographed. Defiantly the last samurai of Japan, marched onto the field wielding only their traditional swords, (a true act of defiance since the katana was by then illegal for a samurai to carry as the had for cenuries) and were gunned down like cattle in a slaughter house, their refusal to give up their centuries of tradition and class privileges was forever remembered. In the end this act of defiance against the central Imperial government moved the people of Japan to such an extant, that Takamori was given a full pardon, and a statue of him was built in Ueno Park.

There is also the tale of the 47 Ronin, Yukio Mishima, and others.

And this kind of "honorable" suicide isn't just a part of Japanese culture. The Battle of Thermopylae was in the end little more then an act of defiance, and suicide. There was a deeply religious reason behind it for the Spartans, and there Greek allies, since according to the Oracle at Delphi a Spartan King had to die in order of Greece to survive. None the less all those who stayed on that final day knew they were going to die, but none the less stayed and fought to their last breath.

There are other such tales throughout world history, of people refusing to give up their lifestyles, and ultimately taking their own lives, or marching out into a battle where there was no chance of victory. So I don't agree with the opinion that such acts are most likely acts of cowardice.

With regards to Hitler, that is another story. Whether he died by a bullet in his bunker, or as an old man in South America in the end is only a trivial part of his tale. The real story of Hitler is a warning lesson to all future generations against the cult of personality, and the power of a centralized state that has no concern for individualism, and individual liberty. The story is told time and again, with Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao Zedong, and others in our recent past.

But that large rant aside, this "history loving" part of me does find the story interesting. Even if it is simply a trivial matter .

 

[Diamondback]

Valid point. The tools it seduces may perish, but as long as men's hearts exist for it to dwell in, true Evil will never die. Jefferson knew what he was talking about when he said "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance..."

 

[Naphtali]

"He made it to Brazil.

"He fled to Greenland

"He disguised himself in a refugee camp and slipped away to the Bavarian mountains.

"He was smuggled aboard a U-boat and spend the rest of his days shielded by Argentina's right wing strongmen."

he died at the bunker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No need to "breathe life into the old monster".



:deadhorse ______

Whether or not that loathsome human being died in 1945, it's dead now. . .

A Modest Proposal?
However, were you to believe it is alive, you can get your "evens" by executing every German national over the age of 90. As Tim Allen said in "Galaxy Quest," "That'll fix old lobsterhead."

 

[GWD]

The Berkut

I once read a very entertaining novel (THE BERKUT) about Hitler faking his own death and his escape through the Black Forest disguised as a woman only to end up caged hanging from a ceiling in Russia naked and wallowing in his own feces.

It's been years since I've read the book, but I think I'm fairly accurate on the gist of it.

 

[avedwards]

When you see the funeral of Skorzeny in 1979 you appreciate the above remarks.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d2Bw327hBY

Precisely, The Odessa File was fiction but at the same time a cooperation between Simon Wiesentahl and Frederick Forsyth to raise awareness, since Wiesentahl actually appears as a minor character in the story (supplying the protagonist with information). Whether or not Hitler was dead, it was the German people that voted him and they did not die. Some of them simply pretended nothing had happened and refused to do anything about war criminals. If that seems too far fetched, my father told me that when visiting Germany in the 1970s it was the case that the war was never mentioned in conversations as people didn't want to accept what had happened.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

He's still hanging in there, in some undisclosed bunker, even with Parkinson's, syphillis and all - here's recent footage regarding his iPhone.

 

[cookie]

He's still hanging in there, in some undisclosed bunker, even with Parkinson's, syphillis and all - here's recent footage regarding his iPhone.

Awesomely but frighteningly funny...I like the shakey hand tremors...so well acted...thanks...sort of...[huh]

 

[LordBest]

Getting a tad off topic, but:
The collective punishment of a population for the actions of a democratically elected government is certainly a novel idea, but I'm not sure any of us would like the consequences if such a precedent were set.
Ironically enough the Fourth Geneva Convention actually forbids collective punishment, because of its use in WWII.

Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

 

[Diamondback]

Getting a tad off topic, but:
The collective punishment of a population for the actions of a democratically elected government is certainly a novel idea, but I'm not sure any of us would like the consequences if such a precedent were set.

Quite--some of us have quite enough to answer for from our own deeds that we don't need to compound it by adding on someone else's we had no control over...

 

[dr greg]

Traditional methods

Putting Adolf and co aside for the moment, I remember the nuns would flog all and sundry at our school on the principle that: "the innocent MUST suffer with the guilty" so it's obviously an ancient and worthy principle, along with the idea that to not do something is just as bad as doing it if you thought about doing it but didn't.......

 

[Chas]

I agree. While up to 90% of SS members escaped to Spain, Egypt and Latin America; Hitler was not one of them.

I don't think that those numbers are accurate. But never mind.

Most likely Hitler and Eva's bodies were pulverised by an artillery shell and lost forever. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I remember the nuns would flog all and sundry at our school on the principle that: "the innocent MUST suffer with the guilty" so it's obviously an ancient and worthy principle, along with the idea that to not do something is just as bad as doing it if you thought about doing it but didn't.......

That would have something to do with the "Cult Of Suffering" that The Roman Catholic Church has glorified from it's very founding. Sick.

 

[bobalooba]

I


That would have something to do with the "Cult Of Suffering" that The Roman Catholic Church has glorified from it's very founding. Sick.

That seems like a very broad statement, I'm not saying what people have done in the past is right but if you let any organization stay around for a couple hundred years with thousands of people during that time some of them are bound to do wrong.

 

[BellyTank]

"Organisation"- when religions go bad.


B
T

 

[PADDY]

Hitler's remains are not Hitler.

The title seems to say it all - case closed, for now.