Himel: An Existential Review

[jonesy86]

Quick question regarding the Heron ... but do you find that you can get the collar lay down flat, or do you have to work at it?

I’m considering adding one or maybe his Excelsior. The collar is a bit narrower on the Excelsior and figured maybe the Heron is more likely to lay flat.The

The collar on my Heron has leather backing and is totally malleable. You can shape it any which way. I've been working it to not lay as flat as it did when I got it.
This batch of Shinki is really beautiful in person, has a wonderful hand and smells great as well.
I lucked out finding one second hand at a comparably lower price than the new or bespoke ones.
I love it.

 

[himelator]

THE ACTUAL JACKET

Now we get to the shit everyone came here to see, the actual jacket!


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The Leather
The deerskin itself looks even better in person than it does on their site.

The hide is the New Zealand White Natural Deerskin. The sample pictures they sent me of this leather via email and phone were horrible -- a stark white, looked fairly shiny, with an unpronounced grain.

In person, the hide is grainy AF, has a soft sheen to it, and is a light cream white. This does look more like photos on their website or some of the jackets that feature this same material on their blog / Instagram. My pictures though are way closer than the leather sample photos they shared when I was making my selections.

The alternative leather I had to pick at the outset (Canadian White Deerskin) has no documented complete pieces online, so I had to go by the sample photos, which made it also look like a wheaty natural light cream color, not a hard white. In the end, I am glad they found a way to secure the NZ deerskin, because in person, it is exactly what I was hoping for from a color perspective.

It has an extremely soft hand and is very pliable. Even with some try-ons and light wear at home, it's starting to break in, and it doesn't look stiff or new. I can't wait to see how it truly breaks in, but it came with some marks already on it, and according to David, it is a stain magnet, so it's going to have to be used with utmost care. I don't think it will handle rain well. Definitely not a jacket for riding, but it was never intended for that (and this was made clear to me by David upon choosing the deerskin).


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The Build
Stitching looks really neat all around. This was one of the first things I inspected, having read some stories about this being a QC issue Himel has had in the past. I can't identify any egregious stitching errors.


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The lining is the Maple Ochre Canadian flannel. It is really soft, light, and breathable, but not very warm at all.

The combined softness and lightness of the deerskin and the flannel makes the jacket extremely soft overall. Super, super comfy. Not very warm though, maybe slightly warmer than my Lee Storm Rider.


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The hardware is cool, either vintage NOS or Japanese repro. Some of it has wear and tarnish, which I don't mind too much, but would have preferred unworn hardware all around, since it'll get there eventually. However, out the box, this thing looks cool asf.

The Chevalier pattern is one of my favorite modern jacket designs. I like it better than the Freewheelers Centinela or the Lost Worlds Leathertogs. I did like the Langlitz equivalent a lot, but the Chevalier has a much more streamlined, understated design. Even after obsessing over it for a couple years, frankly, it is awesome to see in person, especially in its bespoke deerskin glory.


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The Fit
I asked Himel for some dadbod / layering room, and they made that work without the jacket feeling bulky or oversized. The fit is great - excellent. There is a tiny bit of bulk in back with the expansion gusset, and in the bicep, but that's part of the room I asked to have, and I am confident I can slip a sweater underneath without stressing the jacket. The midsection fits awesome, achieving a perfect drape along the beltline, as do the shoulders and neck / collar.

The jacket just hangs really nicely, that has been a distinguishing feature Himel got right here.


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Overall

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One of the biggest questions here is whether Himel Bros. is worth the money. Himel's motto is "one good thing," and I am fortunate enough to have a few good things, but this is one of the most expensive of those things.

It's been discussed to death on the forums, but there's definitely a substantial markup on their jackets. I think they do use premium ingredients, but even then, I can't imagine the construction costs are close to the sticker price.

When I was in the mode of splurging (for me at that time, again, after a long disappointment with Langlitz, and then as a last hurrah before my first born arrived), I just dove in and went for what I hoped was the best, price be damned.

What I got was a stressful project. And at the end, a hell of a nice, costly jacket.

I'd spend a half hour here, half hour there on the phone, at first doing the fun stuff, then having to check in with their team every time my jacket was supposed to be done, only to hear it was still a ways away.

When this sum of money is involved, communication is important, and it becomes frustrating to have to manage the project for them to any extent. It also becomes infuriating when it's beyond late: it was supposed to come in the middle of winter, and now that I have it, we're getting temperatures in the 70s here in NYC, hardly jacket weather. So this big splurge is going straight into the closet for several months.

It becomes another level of frustrating when the response from the seller you've paid so much money to is underwhelming. I was put off by David's semi-dismissive attitude towards this. He has been on these forums and has expressed his disappointment that people come to these places to provide feedback and express their concerns about his product. Well, I expressed my concerns to him, and he gave me a hat, said he was sorry, and told me to stop telling him about them.

I don't feel David is a bad guy; he definitely knows his craft and I think he does treat his business as a place where they're creating pieces of art. As an artist myself, I do know that artists aren't necessarily business-minded folks, though. As a customer, spending several grand on a jacket, that excuse goes out the window fast, artist or not. I have certain expectations at that price point.

I started feeling like I was being the unreasonable, annoying client, even though I left them months to do their thing until I had to become a squeaky wheel. It got to the point where I was so annoyed, I lost all excitement for the jacket, and that left a bad taste in my mouth that I still have when I look at it now that I finally do have it.

Also, I get their motto and vibe: that I'm not buying something for just this past winter, one season, when it was supposed to be delivered and I intended to break it in; it's an investment. You don't rush the art, man. Time is money, though, and this already cost a lot of money, and time! To go on with the annoying adages, you can have 2 of 3: good, fast, or cheap. Since it was neither fast nor cheap, but at least the end product was good.


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In the end, was it worth it?

Not in my opinion. Would I do it again? No.
If I was buying something off the rack from them, in their store, where I could handle the jackets, try them on, talk with them in person, real time, I think it would be a good or maybe great experience, but for a dude far away getting a custom mail order from them, it was not a great process.

The outcome -- I really like, maybe even will grow to love the jacket itself, but I feel it was overpriced, even without the customer service issues. If it came on time, I would have said, hey, expensive, but I knew what I was getting into, and it turned out awesome.

But with everything I've mentioned, I lost my excitement for this jacket well before it got to me, and when I see it, I think, man, what a drag it was to deal with Himel Bros. shame, cos they sure do make a nice jacket. Hopefully the cost in time, stress, and money will fade away as I get to use the jacket over what I hope to be many, many years.

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Regards,
t

You know I don't review my customers some are easier than others to deal with regarding the price of my jackets obviously sometimes there are those who feel they are not worth the value but bespoke custom jackets dealing with individuals is a complicated process fraught with difficulty. In the end we got you the jacket that you wanted I assumed that all were satisfied if anybody would like to speak with me personally I bet difficulties with their jackets I am always available buy phone and I backup my products. For anybody reading these reviews you are welcome to call me and if you are concerned about difficulties or complications I can certainly explain them.

 

[zebedee]

I'm just pleased that it's existential as in experiential-observational rather than pertaining to existence per se.

For a moment there, it was getting heavy.

 

[Geekrobot]

You know I don't review my customers some are easier than others to deal with regarding the price of my jackets obviously sometimes there are those who feel they are not worth the value but bespoke custom jackets dealing with individuals is a complicated process fraught with difficulty. In the end we got you the jacket that you wanted I assumed that all were satisfied if anybody would like to speak with me personally I bet difficulties with their jackets I am always available buy phone and I backup my products. For anybody reading these reviews you are welcome to call me and if you are concerned about difficulties or complications I can certainly explain them.

Yes, in the end, the jacket is excellent and that was really the goal, obviously. You and I already spoke about my feelings on the process, and in my review and replies here, I was sure to get across that the end product was delivered and is high quality.

Value or worth is pretty subjective with these things but the Chevalier you guys made is indeed unique to me and FWIW is among the best jackets I've ever seen, but I wouldn't want to have to go through the work of getting it made again, nor would I likely spend that amount again on any jacket, unless I could do it in person. That aspect is a personal lesson for me after having dropped way to much coin on leather.

In my review I also mentioned that had I been able to come into your shop and work with you in person, I'd imagine that would have been a completely different and better experience, and probably would have changed the whole tone of our interaction.

Same could be said for any maker [see my intro about Langlitz], but with a smaller operation like yours I'd imagine the in person experience has a whole vibe to it that is lost over emails.

 

[himelator]

You know I don't review my customers some are easier than others to deal with regarding the price of my jackets obviously sometimes there are those who feel they are not worth the value but bespoke custom jackets dealing with individuals is a complicated process fraught with difficulty. In the end we got you the jacket that you wanted I assumed that all were satisfied if anybody would like to speak with me personally I bet difficulties with their jackets I am always available buy phone and I backup my products. For anybody reading these reviews you are welcome to call me and if you are concerned about difficulties or complications I can certainly explain them.

Note this was sent via voice to text forgive the spelling grammar and other issues. To follow up, I am always available by phone unless travelling or camping. I run a tiny company there are 4 of us...we go as fast as the customers can get us accurate details and measurements to work with and depending on the cue...making individual custom jackets one by one is not the same as production jackets 50 at a time, if you want a cheaper stock item, stock size produced 50 at a time with laser guided stitching there are many companies that knock off my designs using similar branding and materials....I designed this stuff from decades of expertise, John Chapman and I brough shinki into the western brand awareness through our association with Real McCoys...regarding price holy crap...you cant get a stock ysl jacket for 3k....we are not driving around in ferraris over here....I pay my staff fair wages, maintain strict standards and live in Toronto Canada....man the lounge can be irritating to read....Yeah Tarun wasn't happy...I have 50 customers in the same period who were....I can't make some people happy, I am not a therapist.

 

[himelator]

His friend at Goodwear has prices $1,000 below what Himel charges.
I wish they were cheaper for the less intricate designs like cafe racers considering Real McCoy manages to price Bucos at $1,900 with world wide distribution and Japanese wages are higher than Canada. Toys McCoy and Rainbow Country also have racers around $1,600 usd minus import costs.

But in my short time here I noticed the few, and I mean very few bespoke makers we even have, can pretty much charge whatever they want because this is such a niche market. Overhead has to be super low so profit's should be high.



Customer service should be at the highest level at this price.

japanese wages and costs are not higher than canada...that is completely wrong in fact they are significantly cheaper, rents are cheaper, wages are cheaper.....also these japanese jackets are not custom made...you do not get to chose your fit, model, hardwear leather and liner

 

[himelator]

japanese wages and costs are not higher than canada...that is completely wrong in fact they are significantly cheaper, rents are cheaper, wages are cheaper.....also these japanese jackets are not custom made...you do not get to chose your fit, model, hardwear leather and liner

John is working alone, from his own house one by one with a huge waitlist, he is a brilliant man....his jackets are better than mine in production quality....in my opinion the last 10% of perfection costs 95% more time...he is a blessed soul and pioneer and should be revered here in the lounge

 

[jonesy86]

John is working alone, from his own house one by one with a huge waitlist, he is a brilliant man....his jackets are better than mine in production quality....in my opinion the last 10% of perfection costs 95% more time...he is a blessed soul and pioneer and should be revered here in the lounge

I like both you guys, and your jackets.

 

[red devil]

Note this was sent via voice to text forgive the spelling grammar and other issues. To follow up, I am always available by phone unless travelling or camping. I run a tiny company there are 4 of us...we go as fast as the customers can get us accurate details and measurements to work with and depending on the cue...making individual custom jackets one by one is not the same as production jackets 50 at a time, if you want a cheaper stock item, stock size produced 50 at a time with laser guided stitching there are many companies that knock off my designs using similar branding and materials....I designed this stuff from decades of expertise, John Chapman and I brough shinki into the western brand awareness through our association with Real McCoys...regarding price holy crap...you cant get a stock ysl jacket for 3k....we are not driving around in ferraris over here....I pay my staff fair wages, maintain strict standards and live in Toronto Canada....man the lounge can be irritating to read....Yeah Tarun wasn't happy...I have 50 customers in the same period who were....I can't make some people happy, I am not a therapist.

I don't think comparing yourself to YSL makes any sense, he is regarded as being among the foremost fashion designers of the twentieth century - whether you like him or not - and his brand has been developing its story for decades.

If you managed to hype Shinki so well, I hope they are paying somehow for all the good work you have sone for them. If not, it might be good to bring it up with them.

John is working alone, from his own house one by one with a huge waitlist, he is a brilliant man....his jackets are better than mine in production quality....in my opinion the last 10% of perfection costs 95% more time...he is a blessed soul and pioneer and should be revered here in the lounge

I think it is better not to stir the pot too much here, there have been enough debate about him.

As for production quality you also mentionned that the Japanese brands we discuss here have better production because they do not do a bespoke pattern.

Edit: typos

 

[zebedee]

As far as I can see, the content of this thread is: 'I bought an expensive item that is handmade. It took some negotiation on what I wanted - and it arrived somewhat later than I hoped - but it was an outstanding product. I would never buy it again, though, but it is perfect and I am really looking forward to wearing it'.

There seems to be a tendency sometimes for an almost forensic approach to every aspect of a process which may well be - and the more detailed, specific and granular the stipulations are, the more it is likely going to be - slower than a person may like. This could be double-checking on the part of a manufacturer, the need to clear a log of orders, individual miscommunication, etc., but, if the product turns out to be almost perfect, it's a happy outcome.

Whether or not the cost of something should guarantee a certain production time with so many variables in play is not taking into account those variables, most probably because we are not the manufacturer. If I had been in the OP's position, I would have cancelled the order and asked for a refund had the delays been more of a factor than owning the eventual product. If the delays weren't more important, I'd still order again, even with the delays, based on how pleased I seem with the item received.

 

[himelator]

I don't think comparing yourself to YSL makes any sense, he is regarded as being among the foremost fashion designers of the twentieth century - whether you like him or not - and his brand has been developing its story for decades.

If you managed to hype Shinki so well, I hope they are paying somehow for all the good work you have sone for them. If not, it might be good to bring it up with them.



I think it is better not to stir the pot too much here, there have been enough debate about him.

As for production quality you also mentionned that the Japanese brands we discuss here have better production because they do not do a bespoke pattern.

Edit: typos

Missed the point completely

 

[himelator]

Yes, in the end, the jacket is excellent and that was really the goal, obviously. You and I already spoke about my feelings on the process, and in my review and replies here, I was sure to get across that the end product was delivered and is high quality.

Value or worth is pretty subjective with these things but the Chevalier you guys made is indeed unique to me and FWIW is among the best jackets I've ever seen, but I wouldn't want to have to go through the work of getting it made again, nor would I likely spend that amount again on any jacket, unless I could do it in person. That aspect is a personal lesson for me after having dropped way to much coin on leather.

In my review I also mentioned that had I been able to come into your shop and work with you in person, I'd imagine that would have been a completely different and better experience, and probably would have changed the whole tone of our interaction.

Same could be said for any maker [see my intro about Langlitz], but with a smaller operation like yours I'd imagine the in person experience has a whole vibe to it that is lost over emails.

I'm glad your happy

 

[red devil]

Missed the point completely

What was your point then?

regarding price holy crap...you cant get a stock ysl jacket for 3k

What point are you making here then?

 

[TheDonEffect]

Consider this constructive feedback, not dogpiling.

While I am firm proponent of "the customer is NOT always right", I'm not sure what's left to discuss.

OP shared his experience, which to be fair is one point of view of the situation. Yes, the internet is full of trolls who are quick to defame your brand in a heartbeat, Yelp is full of 3 star reviews because they didn't like the neighborhood of the restaurant they're reviewing for instance.

But this is not that, the OP has been pretty darn diplomatic. Himelator, you delivered a great jacket, good job! You fed your kids, you took someone's money and produced the promised product, you're not a crook! But you also provided a lackluster experience leading up to the delivery.

Heaven forbid the jacket wasn't to expectations, because by all accounts it would require another thread and pages of responses to get a return process started...

Humility. I can't help but think that perhaps conveying a sense of humility would've went a long way here. Sometimes it's more about humility than how many stitches per inch.

 

[El Marro]

Consider this constructive feedback, not dogpiling.

While I am firm proponent of "the customer is NOT always right", I'm not sure what's left to discuss.

OP shared his experience, which to be fair is one point of view of the situation. Yes, the internet is full of trolls who are quick to defame your brand in a heartbeat, Yelp is full of 3 star reviews because they didn't like the neighborhood of the restaurant they're reviewing for instance.

But this is not that, the OP has been pretty darn diplomatic. Himelator, you delivered a great jacket, good job! You fed your kids, you took someone's money and produced the promised product, you're not a crook! But you also provided a lackluster experience leading up to the delivery.

Heaven forbid the jacket wasn't to expectations, because by all accounts it would require another thread and pages of responses to get a return process started...

Humility. I can't help but think that perhaps conveying a sense of humility would've went a long way here. Sometimes it's more about humility than how many stitches per inch.

Drop the mic!

 

[jchance]

Reviews like this and the one on Reddit (about Himel Bros) are the reasons why I join the forum. Spending $2.5k, one would expect a smooth transaction and an enjoyable experience. As much as I want to try a moosehide leather that Himel is tauting, I’m very likely going to pass.

 

[Geekrobot]

Ya. The jacket is pretty awesome, but diminishing returns at that price point. I'd hate to take a sale away from a small business with my critique of the process, but at least people can be prepared to be involved in the order to some extent, or get a sense of lead time.

If one lived nearby Himel, I could see an in-store order being a totally different process, in a good way.

 

[red devil]

Reviews like this and the one on Reddit (about Himel Bros) are the reasons why I join the forum. Spending $2.5k, one would expect a smooth transaction and an enjoyable experience. As much as I want to try a moosehide leather that Himel is tauting, I’m very likely going to pass.

He's not the first one and certainly not the only one that can make a moose jacket

 

[Aloysius]

Reviews like this and the one on Reddit (about Himel Bros) are the reasons why I join the forum. Spending $2.5k, one would expect a smooth transaction and an enjoyable experience. As much as I want to try a moosehide leather that Himel is tauting, I’m very likely going to pass.

I'm sure Johnson can source moose leather and do a better job.