Hat prices hurting hat comeback?

[Historyteach24]

I have been thinking recently that hat prices are getting a tad high. While we are willing to to pay top dollar for good hats I am worried that hats may never have a comeback because of the prices. Hats used to be a staple in a man's wardrobe and the prices reflected that. Now, hat prices reflect that they are a luxury item which doesn't bode well for the common man to get back into hat wearing. Just curious as to the lounges' thoughts on this?

 

[alanfgag]

Production hats branded with the Stetson logo (to choose one example) are approximately equivalent in today's dollars with the 12.50 - 20.00 hats in 1950. Department store stingy brim fedoras are cheaper. Custom hats are one-off craft items that do not have a direct parallel in the same way. I don't think the stumbling block to popularity is price.

 

[great white]

I would agree on "vintage" stuff.

Seems you stick "vintage" on anything and people think they can sell it for a sky high price. High prices by their very nature move something into the "luxury" category. As in: you can't afford it.

For new hats, it seems you have to buy lower quality or wool hats to get in to get anything "average joe" affordable.

Then again, I do believe "way back when" a gent would only have a hat or two good hats in their whole wardrobe. The others were beaters or maybe a less expensive straw.

I think it would be a fair statement to say most guys with hats these days have more than 2 nice ones in their wardrobe.

So maybe it's all relative to the times.

Maybe not.

Is it effecting a "comeback"?

I'm going to say no. "Proper" hats are not a mainstream styling choice. I would say for the most part they are seen as not suitable to casual wear, which it seems is the thing these days. You know; collared shirts with jeans and such.

Baseball/trucker style caps seem to be the "hat of choice" these days...whether they wear them properly or not.

 

[jlee562]

I don't think prices are the main factor. Optimo sells enough hats at $650 to have two brick and mortar stores. I have several peers that will drop comparable amounts of money (let's say $150-$300) on various wardrobe items including but not limited to shoes, bags, jackets. Heck, a pair of Diesel jeans can set you back $200-$300.

Whilst you, I, and folks here might wonder why someone would spend $300 on jeans, those folks are wondering why we here spend that much on a hat.

Different strokes, different folks.

I think a major factor is that people just don't know any better. I recall hearing of a thread on the popular discussion site Reddit, "challenging" users to post a photo of their hat which didn't look "foolish" (or some such anti-hat sentiment), one young gentleman posted a photo saying that people these days don't know what "real" hats were, and that he bought his in a 'proper' hat store and it was just like the ones from the old days....made of wool!

Those hats which are available commercially are of the stingy/cloth/wool variety and can mostly be found in the $40-$75 range. Love them or hate them, Goorin is doing pretty good business, last I checked they had opened several new stores here in the bay area selling those overpriced wool hats. Unless you go to a hat shop with a knowledgable sales person, they're not going to know the difference. I was in Goorin's shop on the Haight one day with my Cavanagh Homburg and the salespeople didn't even know what type of hat it was.

What Stetson (or any hat company) really needs is a better marketing campaign.

 

[great white]

I don't think prices are the main factor. Optimo sells enough hats at $650 to have two brick and mortar stores. I have several peers that will drop comparable amounts of money (let's say $150-$300) on various wardrobe items including but not limited to shoes, bags, jackets. Heck, a pair of Diesel jeans can set you back $200-$300.

Whilst you, I, and folks here might wonder why someone would spend $300 on jeans, those folks are wondering why we here spend that much on a hat.

Different strokes, different folks.

I think a major factor is that people just don't know any better. I recall hearing of a thread on the popular discussion site Reddit, "challenging" users to post a photo of their hat which didn't look "foolish" (or some such anti-hat sentiment), one young gentleman posted a photo saying that people these days don't know what "real" hats were, and that he bought his in a 'proper' hat store and it was just like the ones from the old days....made of wool!

Those hats which are available commercially are of the stingy/cloth/wool variety and can mostly be found in the $40-$75 range. Love them or hate them, Goorin is doing pretty good business, last I checked they had opened several new stores here in the bay area selling those overpriced wool hats. Unless you go to a hat shop with a knowledgable sales person, they're not going to know the difference. I was in Goorin's shop on the Haight one day with my Cavanagh Homburg and the salespeople didn't even know what type of hat it was.

What Stetson (or any hat company) really needs is a better marketing campaign.

Excellent points.

But, I would wager if a hat company started aggressively advertizing "fur" hats to the general public the average person would attach a negative connotation to "fur".

I would say it's a smart marketing choice on their part to avoid the fur moniker, even if it is a better quality hat and if the fur is humanely harvested.

While we know the fur felt isn't the same as a fur coat, but you just can't say "fur" these days without someone in the room tsk-tsk-ing or gasping.

 

[Historyteach24]

I think you guys make valid points, and yes there are stingy brimmed wool fedoras more today than a few years ago but I just think the market may have priced itself out of "every man" territory.

 

[TheDane]

Cabinetmakers trained in the 20s and 30s saw their high quality French polished mahogany furniture substituted by "raw" oiled teak during the late 40s and 50s. Then in the 60s chains like IKEA surfaced and the fashion changed to veneered or laminated chipboard.

You can find parallels all over the place. Our civilisation and it's cultures have changed a lot over the last hundred years, and our demands have changed with the expansion of possibilities. In the process our need for - and perception/definition of - "quality" has changed too.

It could very well be, that just as short hair looked ridiculous to me in 1969, broad brims do so to many young people today. And: "Wool or beaver belly? Who cares ...?!??!!! As long as my tablet screen has a high enough resolution, and my smartphone has enough bandwidth at hand, I couldn't care less!"

My dad (the cabinetmaker) frowned and bitched over the changes in the furniture business much of his life. Even if classic polished furniture some day should come back into fashion, it would never be in a quality, he would have approved. But at least it's better than cheap chipboard ... you just can't win 'em all, Dad!

We're some few to whom it matters, if a hat is made from wool or high quality fur, and who believe a hat should have a potent crown and not a too narrow brim. Could be, we are just not mainstream and don't understand, what's important today.

Make an iHat with a thin touch sensitive snap-down brim (4" is absolutely not too wide!), WiFi, Blue Tooth and a wide array of useful apps. Then you're in business ... BIG business!

At least, many young people care to try out different headwear. Some of the stingy small-crowned hats look quite well to me, when tossed a little backward on a young head. Not the classy hat-look I prefer, but ... you just can't win 'em all, Son!

 

[great white]

If hats are to make a resurgence, I believe this is the way to "sell" it:

Tip a Hat for Safety

BY CHUCK SMITH
Great Bend Tribune

As Americans are getting more concerned about protecting themselves from the dangers of too much sun, and its contribution to too much skin cancer in our culture, they are also turning back to an old safety device that’s also a fashion statement — the hat.

In the trail driving days, you could tell where a cowboy was from by the shape and size of his hat, according to the old-timers. A cowboy with an especially wide-brimmed hat was from the Southwest, where the blazing sun could fry a man, and the only shade he was likely to find was under his hat.

For similar reasons, Americans today are being encouraged to crawl back under their sombreros — or at least to seek some protection from hats when they are working or playing out in the sun.

According to the Skin Cancer Foundation, there is a trend in clothing designers to not only bring back hats, but to also include styles that have wide enough brims to offer protection to the face, ears and neck.

"The trend is particularly welcome because exposure to the sun’s ultraviolet radiation (UVR) increases the risk of all skin cancers, and broad-brimmed hats provide significant sun protection for the head and neck. As it turns out, shielding these vulnerable areas is especially important," according to information from the Skin Cancer Foundation.

"A recent study at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, found that melanomas on the head and neck are particularly dangerous. Among 51,704 non-Hispanic white adults with melanoma, patients with melanomas of the head and neck were almost twice as likely to die from the disease as patients with melanomas on other areas, including the trunk, facial skin, and ears," the Foundation stresses.

Those who created the UNC study, stressed that adding a wide-brimmed hat to the everyday wardrobe really makes a difference, especially over time. "Many of these melanoma deaths might have been avoided with proper precautions: ‘I think that wearing a broad-brimmed hat should help prevent melanoma of the head and neck, including dangerous melanomas of the scalp and neck,’ commented study coauthor Nancy Thomas, MD, PhD."

Sun and shade is why I have an sunny river on the way.

I've know a couple friends who have either contracted or died from skin cancer. Something I would like to avoid. In my opinion, a broad brim just increases my odds.

The styling comes later if you can get them in the door.

 

[tonyb]

The fellow who wrote the story above for the Great Bend Tribune was a Lounger. Around here he went by Sam Craig. He died at age 56 about a year and a half ago.

Chuck Smith had worked at the paper for something like 34 years and was its city editor when he shuffled off for the big lounge in the sky.

As to HT24's proposition that prices may be a drag on a hat renaissance ...

Well, sure. Back when many and perhaps most guys wore hats, a working Joe would part with a day or two's pay on a nice new lid. He wore it regularly, had it cleaned and blocked and wore it some more, etc., just like men these days (well, some men, anyway -- those who care about quality and durability) will spend a couple three or four hundred bucks on decent shoes and get a whole lotta wear out of them, and have them resoled, etc.

But most men these days never got in the habit of spending such a portion of their pay on hats. Nor did their fathers, for that matter. Maybe their old granddads did, for men now over 50 or so, but hats haven't been an item of everyday attire for most men for well over half a century now. And a couple hundred bucks or more seems an awful lot of scratch.

 

[Lotsahats]

I have only one thing to add to this discussion: there are a couple of sellers on a certain auction site who consistently price their hats at scandalously high prices. Don't get me wrong--a real treasure of a hat can certainly be justified, and there might even be an argument for popular style hats, but a run-of-the-mill Dobbs 15 going for north of $400 as the asking price? No idea how many hats sell for these amounts, and of course the only price that is too high is one no one offers to buy, but These prices don't help at all.

A

 

[Matt Crunk]

Not sure price is a factor in entering the hat market. I see decent entry-level fedoras new in stores from $30 to $65. Used and vintage can sometimes be had much cheaper. Plastic trilbys at Walmart go for $10. Quality beaver felt seem to start around $100. I've seen Stetson fedoras in western wear stores starting at around $150.

 

[great white]

Well, if we use the meter stick of a days pay for a hat, mine is around 350 a day (bit more, but I'm not getting that specific!). So a 350 dollar hat would be right in the range that could have been seen as the "old days" when a gent would spend a days pay on a good hat.

But, a hat was as much an essential part of dress as shoes are today. You simply had to have it. Culture shift and fast forward to today and a hat is not an essential part of our wardrobe.

It has dropped out for styling reasons (probably seen as too much old establishment in the 60's) and there are many other things competing for your paycheck now so something's gotta give.

For example:

In today's society, it is almost required that you have a portable phone. You're an anomaly if you don't. And most go for "smart phones", which is anywhere from 100 to 800 dollars to buy. Even if you get in at 100, there's the phone plan you are locked in to.

And then there's vehicles. Big, expensive vehicles. People need that big expensive gas guzzling SUV. It's the status symbol these days, much like a fine hat used to be. It will probably stay that way until we have another cultural shift away from expensive vehicles making a statement about you. Even a "cheap" new car goes around 15-20 grand. They suck up your cash darned quick.

And, a car is an essential in NA society. You have to have one. It may be different in europe with established mass transit methods, but NA is largely dependent on the personal vehicle for travel. The comparative sparse population and vast distances make mass transit largely not practical (or economical) to most remote locations. It truly is different than areas like Europe. For example: I was in Italy on a business trip talking with an Italian friend. He was planning to fly to Canada for a long weekend. I asked where he was going and it was like this: "I'm planning to fly in to Halifax and see the town in the morning, rent a car and then drive up to Toronto that night, spend a night in Toronto and then maybe off to Alberta to see Calgary. I might drive back the next day to Toronto or just catch a flight out of Calgary back to Milan". I gently explained to him he's just not understanding how physically big Canada is and that would not fit in to a week, let alone a weekend....

Then there"s the Skyrocketing real estate cost driven by the greedy banks and real estate brokers.

Insurance, food, clothing, etc. It's all competing for your dollar and it seems like there are fewer of them available every day.

So, it's probably a bunch of things: culture shift, economics and "progress".

It's not limited to just the cost of hats.

If it's cost, then there's always low market end stuff. Like ball caps.....or dept stores.

But if you want "nice" or "fine", ya gotta pay. Like we always have with houses, cars, etc.

Wealth is wasted on the rich.....

 

[dh66]

I think there may be something to this, Matt. I don't in ANY way want to offend anyone here, so PLEASE don't take what I'm about to say as anything other than an observation.
White people don't wear hats. I live in a city with a majority African American (or whatever term is correct) population. They wear hats. A lot of 'em. There's a church a few blocks from where I live and it's rare to see a man WITHOUT a hat on Sunday morning. There are several stores that sell fashions geared to the fashionable black man (think Stacy Adams) where decent looking hats can be had very reasonably. One store in particular, that I have purchased several from, carries the full lines from Dobbs and Stetson, and even had Beaver Brand a while back. Dobbs has some moderately priced very nice wool hats, as well as Stacy Adams and Kangol for anyone wishing to "test the waters" so to speak.
The only times I even get a second look wearing a hat are when I'm out in the suburbs where all the white people live. There's no places out there to even buy a hat, except maybe walmart or target. Go in the malls and you won't likely find one, expensive or otherwise, so maybe it's less a price issue as an availability one.

On a related rant, years back there WAS a store in the mall called Hats in the Belfry. They actually had some decent lids for sale among all the novelty and costume hats. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that this didn't hurt more than help hat wearing because people made the association of a fedora with a costume. I mean, no one would ever go out and about in a rasta tam with fake dreadlocks or a giant stuffed mug of beer or a wizard hat, and fedoras come from the same place......

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[great white]

I think there may be something to this. I don't in ANY way want to offend anyone here, so PLEASE don't take what I'm about to say as anything other than an observation.
White people don't wear hats. I live in a city with a majority African American (or whatever term is correct) population. They wear hats. A lot of 'em. There's a church a few blocks from where I live and it's rare to see a man WITHOUT a hat on Sunday morning. There are several stores that sell fashions geared to the fashionable black man (think Stacy Adams) where decent looking hats can be had very reasonably. One store in particular, that I have purchased several from, carries the full lines from Dobbs and Stetson, and even had Beaver Brand a while back. Dobbs has some moderately priced very nice wool hats, as well as Stacy Adams and Kangol for anyone wishing to "test the waters" so to speak.
The only times I even get a second look wearing a hat are when I'm out in the suburbs where all the white people live. There's no places out there to even buy a hat, except maybe walmart or target. Go in the malls and you won't likely find one, expensive or otherwise, so maybe it's less a price issue as an availability one.

On a related rant, years back there WAS a store in the mall called Hats in the Belfry. They actually had some decent lids for sale among all the novelty and costume hats. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that this didn't hurt more than help hat wearing because people made the association of a fedora with a costume. I mean, no one would ever go out and about in a rasta tam with fake dreadlocks or a giant stuffed mug of beer or a wizard hat, and fedoras come from the same place......

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Those are interesting observations for sure.....something to ponder at least.

 

[dh66]

Sorry... It's early and I haven't had enough coffee yet.

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[Historyteach24]

DH I think you hit a good point. I get a ton of compliments and to think about it many of them are African Americans.

 

[facade]

Hurting a comeback? No. Firstly hats don't need to make a comeback. They are doing just fine. Obviously what was meant is a comeback of more fashionable hats such as a fedora. There will likely never be a comeback for fedoras. In today's society and, absent drastic social change, the foreseeable future, they may float in and out of fashion from time to time, but they will never again rise to the level of use they once had.

Price does hurt sales though. If you know you will have regular use from a hat, then plunking down hundreds of dollars seems reasonable. If you are a novice thinking about wearing a fedora, then price does discourage you. A novice isn't sure how much they will even wear the hat. Plunking down $200 on something you might only wear once isn't a wise choice. Further from the novice's point of view there is no value in purchasing a high quality fedora. Money is spent for two reasons, quality and coolness. Quality is a non-factor as the fedora will not be a daily wear item and we expect our products to be disposable these days. And, outside the FL, a high end fedora has no greater coolness factor than a much cheaper version. The general public can't tell a high end fedora from a cheapo wool one nor do they care. So unless you are a collector and enthusiast, there really isn't much benefit in paying for a better quality fedora.

 

[Tomasso]

Like most all items of apparel there are hats offered at every pricepoint so I don't see price as a barrier to their popularity.

 

[gtdean48]

Hats effect on hairstyles is a key barrier. If current styles are less impacted by "hat head" then that key demographic, 18-35 males, will be more apt to wear one. Us old dudes with less or no hair have little to no concern with it. My thoughts to why you see wool watch caps worn indoors....same for ball caps. JMHO

 

[dh66]

Well, there's definately that aspect of it. When I was 18 - 35 hats were for "bad hair days". Now they're for "no hair days", in other words, every day.

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