Hat prices hurting hat comeback?

[John J]

Hey History teach, this is the fedora lounge and we like Fedoras and dressing up better than your average Joe!

That said Hats are doing fine But its the baseball cap that has center stage! I see lots of Men (quite a few ladies) wearing baseball caps.

Go to any shopping center and see the baseball hats on Young kids , Teens, middle aged folks and senior citizens alike (personally I think it looks terrible on older guys).

I see lots of middle aged men wearing better quality wool baseball hats (often backwards) along with STARTER or NASCAR jackets [huh].

in the warm months in any Northeast tourist area there is no shortage of less expensive straw hats or canvas hats for sun protection.

I do agree that the average person liking one of my custom hats would be appalled at spending that kind of dollars on one when a good baseball hat is only $35.00

Off the rack hats at a few mens shops I frequent start at around $100.00 and top off around $170.00 not many are sold.

again no shortage of backwards baseball hats and sports team jackets.

That's OK Ill keep the compliments coming my way when I'm out and about and dressed a cut above!


"John"

 

[gtdean48]

...

As for the prices of decent hats like fedoras? Well, how about some of the hatters here tell me how much difference there is between a decent western hat & a fedora? Or than size that is, is there a big price difference?
I can find some decent "cowboy" hats here for under $100, good for beaters, & I know I'll pay more for say a Resistol or a really good Stetson. So if Stetson can sell a decent cowboy for under a hundred, why cant they do it for a fedora?

Or is it because Stetson can make more cowboy hats, so it comes down to supply & demand? More cowboys because of more demand so it brings the price down?

Retail westerns are a different price due to higher supply/demand. Have you priced a custom western?
100% beaver western custom far outstrips a 100% beaver custom fedora.
Those felt bodies are more to start with so the end product is more.

 

[EliasRDA]

GT,
No, I have never tried pricing a custom western hat, they just dont suit the area I live.

I figured it came down to supply & demand on retail westerns, I just figured if we ignored the fact that a western is physically larger than most fedoras & looked at how demand affects the price that may explain different pricing points.
If you get the demand there for fedoras then the price would drop, & I'm referring strictly to retail/non custom. I always expect custom or bespoke to cost more, its the nature of the beast as it were.

So, if we could get say Stetson to produce more fedoras & the general public to wear them then the price on them may drop. Then again it may not.[huh]

 

[tonyb]

...

As for the prices of decent hats like fedoras? Well, how about some of the hatters here tell me how much difference there is between a decent western hat & a fedora? Or than size that is, is there a big price difference?
I can find some decent "cowboy" hats here for under $100, good for beaters, & I know I'll pay more for say a Resistol or a really good Stetson. So if Stetson can sell a decent cowboy for under a hundred, why cant they do it for a fedora?

Or is it because Stetson can make more cowboy hats, so it comes down to supply & demand? More cowboys because of more demand so it brings the price down?

To answer your questions ...

It costs more to make a Western than a fedora because there's more material in a Western. Their overall dimensions are greater and they are generally thicker. So the suppliers charge considerably more for the bodies.

However, the difference in material cost, while significant, doesn't account for the often MUCH higher prices some Western customs fetch. I attribute this mostly to those hatters charging what their market will bear, and their market is the guys who will buy $2,000 boots and $500 belt buckles and $60,000 pickup trucks. Okay, to be fair, and accurate, those deep-pocketed types aren't really representative of custom cowboy hat buyers, but those customers are out there, and they help define the upper end of what cowboy hats might cost.

The market for custom Westerns is much larger than that for "dress" hats, which pretty well explains why there are so many more hatters specializing in Westerns than in dress hats. Yes, there are men who will spend a grand or more on a fedora, but there are far fewer of them.

Can't say that I've done much shopping for Western hats of late, so I'm hardly in a position to dispute your assertion that "decent" cowboy hats can be had for under $100. Are you talking new hats? Are these fur felts? If they're wool felts, or Buffalo fur felts, or Shantung straws, I'd take exception with your calling them "decent," but I acknowledge that that's an opinion, albeit one that would find concurrence around here.

 

[Historyteach24]

Tony, thanks for your input. I was hoping you or another one of the professional hatters would weigh in on the topic!

 

[Mystic]

The opinions and input here have been interesting. I can only speak to my situation and observation of my local area.

I live in baseball cap and cheap straw hat country with occasional inexpensive flat caps but mainly baseball hats.

I have noticed more older and middle age men wearing fedora style hats lately. Not vintage or nice hats but not the cheap "Walmart" hats either. So, I suppose that is encouraging.

As for me, I know higher prices of vintage hats have almost taken me out of the market. Instead of buying a couple of hats a month. I am only buying a couple of hats a year. Now, that I am on a fixed income, custom made fedora's are not a viable option for me in a uncertain economy.

I am happy I have a good assortment of vintage hats now and more than I need or should have.

I am more selective of what I buy. It is prudent but doesn't do anything for the hat buying fever when looking at vintage hats on ebay.

 

[John Galt]

If hats are to make a resurgence, I believe this is the way to "sell" it:

[...]

Sun and shade is why I have an sunny river on the way.

I've know a couple friends who have either contracted or died from skin cancer. Something I would like to avoid. In my opinion, a broad brim just increases my odds.

The styling comes later if you can get them in the door.

And that is one of the ways they marketed them in the beforetimes:

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[Tomasso]

As for me, I know higher prices of vintage hats have almost taken me out of the market. Instead of buying a couple of hats a month. I am only buying a couple of hats a year........I am more selective of what I buy.

Sometimes a bull market is a blessing in disguise.

 

[Genuine Classic Gangster]

I agree with the sentiment of the OP.

With a couple of exceptions, good hats cannot be bought nowadays for what an average person would consider to be a reasonable price. Therefore, the average person is simply not going to buy good hats, and that will prevent hats from becoming massively popular again.

However, if prices for good hats did somehow come down to a level that the average person considers to be reasonable, good hats could make a comeback.

By "average person," I mean someone who does not have a particular love for hats, like the members here do.

The comeback of good hats is also suppressed by a second factor: cheap, trash-tier "hats" that do have mass market appeal to youngsters who have no idea that what they are buying is and looks like trash, and/or are clueless about how to choose a hat that looks good on themselves. The proliferation of trash-tier hats among youngsters who do not know better leads to the writing of Internet articles that - unfairly, of course - bash all Fedora-wearing as repulsive.

Here is an example:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/20-reasons-you-shouldnt-date-men-who-wear-fedoras

By the way, might I suggest that the comments section of that article would benefit greatly from a few loungers' ignorance-dispelling insights.

 

[gtdean48]

As the demise of Biltmore in Canada & Beaver Brand in the US shows, building a good quality fur felt hat has a certain price point due to the cost of the fur, felting & assembly that will never meet "what an average person would consider to be a reasonable price".
That is why good quality hats aren't for sale at Walmart & Target.

 

[TheDane]

The proliferation of trash-tier hats among youngsters who do not know better leads to the writing of Internet articles that - unfairly, of course - bash all Fedora-wearing as repulsive.

For me it's hard to see any substatial differences between this thread and the one, you're linking to. Both spring from the misconception, that "I am a classy and stylish guy, and everything I do is obviously correct. The others are ignorant, trashy fools!"

Lower prices won't substitute SUVs with horse and buggies, either. We're a bunch of people that cling to a hopelessly outdated fashion statement, and our self-insight is often to weak to accept, that the subject of our affection seems so utterly rediculous to others. In that sense many of us do not defer significantly from the "fedora-bashers", you linked to. You'll find a lot of "ball-cap-bashing" on TFL, that seems frightening little inclusive - and leave you with no sense of spaciousness or classieness with the contributer. Unfortunately that sort of bashing rarely seems followed by a realistic assessment of own demeaning standpoints - whether it comes from one side or the other. A fedora doesn't automatically make the head underneath belong to a gentleman

 

[T Jones]

I have been thinking recently that hat prices are getting a tad high. While we are willing to to pay top dollar for good hats I am worried that hats may never have a comeback because of the prices. Hats used to be a staple in a man's wardrobe and the prices reflected that. Now, hat prices reflect that they are a luxury item which doesn't bode well for the common man to get back into hat wearing. Just curious as to the lounges' thoughts on this?

Even vintage hats on ebay are ridiculously high...Did you see the prices that Timothy's Closet and the outdoor team are selling theirs for? Nuts! I mean I like good quality hats but I'm not going to pay the prices they're asking! They'll bargain a little bit, but not that much!

 

[tommyK]

I also discovered Timothy's closet on ebay. Great selection and even a few in my size but, for the price I'll go custom first and get exactly what I want.

 

[Historyteach24]

That is the point I have been trying to make guys. Even for hat lovers like us the prices are becoming more and more difficult to stomach...at least for me. I find myself going from thrift shop to thrift shop just in the hopes of finding hats that fit me because turning to ebay has been a fruitless endeavor.

 

[T Jones]

I also discovered Timothy's closet on ebay. Great selection and even a few in my size but, for the price I'll go custom first and get exactly what I want.

I think custom would be the better way to go, or if you can find a Western fur felt at a reasonable price you can send it to a hatter and have it converted to most anything you want at a slightly more reasonable cost....I have a 4X Resistol that's being worked on now.

 

[tommyK]

I'm getting a sampling of the new open crown Stetsons that Mr. Deckard got them to make but that pretty much exhausts my interest in modern production hats for now. I don't share the dislike of modern Borsalinos of many but they only have 2 hats I like; the Film and the Alessandria. A few colors in them as well, a few Akubras and that does it for me.

 

[tommyK]

I also think the near total lack of advertising is partly to blame for modern hat demand

 

[TheDane]

In a local hatshop I still have to pay around $400 for a new lousy, woollen outback from Borsalino - about the same as a custom. Even if you buy from the expensive sellers on eBay, you'll often get a better hat. The materials for a quality hat are expensive and the work that should be put into each hat is very costly too. Add the fact that the market is very small, which only contributes to even higher prices.

It's a time consuming job to make a quality hat, and even though modern hats (of-the-rack as well as custom) lack a lot of details compared to older hats, hatters don't score a big margin. In my mind it's hard to imagine quality custom hats getting much cheaper. Factories could make far better quality, but it would take a lot of skilled manpower, not resulting in lower prices.

I'm aware of the new line of Stetsons, that may seem to be of a higher quality. I'm not sure, the new line will result in a significant change in the company's sales numbers, though. I also don't believe they could survive, making cheap quality hats without a main income from larger volumes of discount stuff with a lot bigger margin. Advertising never made me wear a ball-cap or a pair of baggy-pants. I don't see, why advertising should make my neighbor wear headgear, he dislikes or finds outdated. If you want to change fashion through advertising, it has to be done with extremely massive campaigns. I'm sure, Stetson would love to do it - and would do so, if it was realistic.

Compared to what my neighbor use on his bicycle(s) - the appropriate and hyped underware, tricot, helmet, gears, brackets and gadgets - one could well argue, that hats are cheap

 

[The Fedorable]

In my house, yes.

 

[dh66]

In my house, yes.

I feel your pain bro.

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