Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[belfastboy]

It was a coin toss between this and gunsmoke, believe me!

It's a shame about FEPSA, I wonder what their issue is. I did want to grab one more before stock ran out. They're such nice felts. Both the cypress and moonshine are new shades to my hat collection. Well, they're only hat parts so far...

Paraphrasing a commenter from Tim's post: the hat industry collectively seems to bemoan the lost arts of hat making, while also acting as gatekeepers to new folks trying to get in.

I am possibly guilty of reading too much into this but my takeaway was that FEPSA was pressured by current large US buyers of their felt to cut out the new guy in town.

 

[jlee562]

I am possibly guilty of reading too much into this but my takeaway was that FEPSA was pressured by current large US buyers of their felt to cut out the new guy in town.

Certainly seems plausible. My read of the original comment was more in a general sense about the hat industry though. For instance, Cody Wellema talked about some of his trials and tribulations getting started in hatting on the Handcut podcast. He mentions folks were resistant to sharing knowledge or sources, but became less so over time as he began to 'prove' that he valued the old ways of hat making.

It's interesting to contrast this to the current "maker" movement. Although certainly there are always folks who prefer to keep their cards close to their chest, the general sentiment espoused by folks like Adam Savage is that knowledge should be shared! Maybe you can't learn hat making on YouTube at the moment,but shouldn't you be able to?

 

[belfastboy]

Certainly seems plausible. My read of the original comment was more in a general sense about the hat industry though. For instance, Cody Wellema talked about some of his trials and tribulations getting started in hatting on the Handcut podcast. He mentions folks were resistant to sharing knowledge or sources, but became less so over time as he began to 'prove' that he valued the old ways of hat making.

It's interesting to contrast this to the current "maker" movement. Although certainly there are always folks who prefer to keep their cards close to their chest, the general sentiment espoused by folks like Adam Savage is that knowledge should be shared! Maybe you can't learn hat making on YouTube at the moment,but shouldn't you be able to?

I always admired Art's willingness to share his knowledge with new hatters. It would be interesting to chase the thread of his influence amongst the current crop of custom hatters.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Certainly seems plausible. My read of the original comment was more in a general sense about the hat industry though. For instance, Cody Wellema talked about some of his trials and tribulations getting started in hatting on the Handcut podcast. He mentions folks were resistant to sharing knowledge or sources, but became less so over time as he began to 'prove' that he valued the old ways of hat making.

It's interesting to contrast this to the current "maker" movement. Although certainly there are always folks who prefer to keep their cards close to their chest, the general sentiment espoused by folks like Adam Savage is that knowledge should be shared! Maybe you can't learn hat making on YouTube at the moment,but shouldn't you be able to?

Sometimes it’s just people. We tend to be a selfish and jealous species. I worked at a sporting goods store while going to college and got to be friends with a coworker. Even after four years he still wouldn’t tell me where he caught his fish or what techniques he used.

Throughout history people have jealousy guarded sources and methods. Wether it was sources of spices, the manufacture of silk, or computer code we have a long tradition of not sharing. I think a part of the human experience is to overcome this natural selfishness and to think of others as well as ourselves.

In hatting, I suspect there is also the “you have to pay your dues and earn it” mentality.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Maybe you can't learn hat making on YouTube at the moment,but shouldn't you be able to?

I have often thought of starting a YouTube channel for showing how to make a hat but either didn't have the time or was afraid that some in the business might shun me for having shared what I've learned so far. I spent 7 days with JW and 2 days with Art; made about 45 hats. It doesn't make me a master hatter or anything but I don't want to lose the knowledge. I have invested plenty in tools, I may never open a hat shop but hat making brings me a joy and if I only make hats for myself and my kids, all the money I've spent will still be worth it.

Been talking with Mike Miller at Northwest Hats recently (he is great to talk shop with), I picked up a D'orsay curling shackle (the only one I aware of) from Art, turns out Mike was interested in it as well. So I sent it to him so it we can get a CAD model of it and get some reproductions. We both want to archive and save as much of the tools and knowledge as possible.

 

[belfastboy]

I have often thought of starting a YouTube channel for showing how to make a hat but either didn't have the time or was afraid that some in the business might shun me for having shared what I've learned so far. I spent 7 days with JW and 2 days with Art; made about 45 hats. It doesn't make me a master hatter or anything but I don't want to lose the knowledge. I have invested plenty in tools, I may never open a hat shop but hat making brings me a joy and if I only make hats for myself and my kids, all the money I've spent will still be worth it.

Been talking with Mike Miller at Northwest Hats recently (he is great to talk shop with), I picked up a D'orsay curling shackle (the only one I aware of) from Art, turns out Mike was interested in it as well. So I sent it to him so it we can get a CAD model of it and get some reproductions. We both want to archive and save as much of the tools and knowledge as possible.

Yes, I am so thankful that Art Fawcett agreed to the making of his video. It is gold. I am just 10 hats into my hatter's journey so still consider myself largely ignorant but on the plus side I have a better idea of knowing what I DON'T know. I had thought it would be a fun project to make a series of videos showing how to make a hat with a minimum of capital expense and a maximum of creativity and 'gitter dun' attitude. I too love making hats and not sure where I am going with this. Although I cannot keep making hats for myself and wife (she has said no more). I have made and sold 5 hats and will likely take out an Etsy site. When I get further along in my journey I am thinking it would be great fun to video the process and share what I have learned. I will continue for a while, word of mouth, making hats for pretty much my base cost. In that way the buyer gets a bargain custom hat and I continue my learning with it only costing me my time.

 

[belfastboy]

Sometimes it’s just people. We tend to be a selfish and jealous species. I worked at a sporting goods store while going to college and got to be friends with a coworker. Even after four years he still wouldn’t tell me where he caught his fish or what techniques he used.

Throughout history people have jealousy guarded sources and methods. Wether it was sources of spices, the manufacture of silk, or computer code we have a long tradition of not sharing. I think a part of the human experience is to overcome this natural selfishness and to think of others as well as ourselves.

In hatting, I suspect there is also the “you have to pay your dues and earn it” mentality.

It gets a bit more complicated in terms of custom hats and its small market as the guy you train may end up your competition. I certainly understand the concept of the 'paying of dues'....if I am self taught guy that struggled for years to master my craft I too would be reluctant to share that with someone who wants to perhaps short circuit the struggle. I think the 'paying of dues' is now an outdated concept with instant knowledge available on the internet. Most younger guys have no idea that one used to have to master a skill by reading a book and then trying, and failing, multiple times to learn.......now they have Youtube and instructional videos for everything so you truly can become at least a faux expert overnight. I came home from the UK many years ago and sat beside an 80 year old master cabinet maker. He started out as a 12 year old tea boy in a cabinet shop. He made tea, cleaned the glue pots and brushes and whatever crap job no one else wanted to do. He did that for a number of years before he was allowed to touch any wood. Eventually when he had proven himself worthy he was allowed to begin to learn to craft the wood. Now that to me is the paying of dues and sadly those days are long gone.

 

[jlee562]

My Randal Alan block and flange are on the way, my tools arrived from Rick the other day. So I made a bow! I patterned it after my old Stetson ranger hat, my Boss Raw Edge also has the same style. My bowkeep ended up slightly slimmer, because I think they used a wider piece originally, I don't see how else they would have maintained the proportions with the folding pattern. The left side starts on top but appears to fold under the right side towards the bottom.




The cypress felt and green belly ribbon do not want to photograph color accurate, especially together. In person the contrast is not quite so drastic. I don't dislike this combo, but maybe something closer to tone on tone? Now I wish I had more than one spool of ribbon!

 

[belfastboy]

My Randal Alan block and flange are on the way, my tools arrived from Rick the other day. So I made a bow! I patterned it after my old Stetson ranger hat, my Boss Raw Edge also has the same style. My bowkeep ended up slightly slimmer, because I think they used a wider piece originally, I don't see how they would have maintained the proportions with the folding pattern. The left sude starts on top but appears to fold under the right side towards the bottom.




The cypress felt and green belly ribbon do not want to photograph color accurate, especially together. In person the contrast is not quite so drastic. I don't dislike this combo, but maybe something closer to tone on tone? Now I wish I had more than one spool of ribbon!

I have a Cypress colour felt and I have no idea what colour ribbon to use on it. I have some Copper coloured but it makes for quite a contrast that I am not sure I am ready for. Thinking I maybe should have gone with the Buckskin felt.

 

[jlee562]

Question: when cutting the ends of the sweat to join, what's the correct angle? I did the google trick on the lounge but it only lead me to posts referencing dead links.

 

[T Jones]

Question: when cutting the ends of the sweat to join, what's the correct angle? I did the google trick on the lounge but it only lead me to posts referencing dead links.

If you have a trashed vintage sweat laying around you could use it as a pattern to get your angle. If anyone knew more about getting the right sweat angles it would have been the hat makers of old who knew how make quality built hats.

 

[belfastboy]

If you have a trashed vintage sweat laying around you could use it as a pattern to get your angle. If anyone knew more about getting the right sweat angles it would have been the hat makers of old who knew how make quality built hats.

I resurrected an old thread and there is (no surprise) many different perspectives on the issue. Some as little as 5 degrees while others go upwards to 10 or 12 degrees.. I have even done a straight cut on a straight sided blocked felt....zero taper.....and it worked out fine but have settled on the 5 degrees as a base line. I am placing the issue in the 'hat makers voodoo' file for now.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I know this has been posted elsewhere but it’s worth repeating:

https://vimeo.com/5090477

 

[jlee562]

Also, from the ladies of Paul's Hat Works here in SF:

 

[KarlEscobar10]

After a few years of working on hats I have a few rules that I've established for myself and I think they've served me pretty well...

• Don't overthink it. Don't approach your work believing that everything has to be a complicated process. Calm down. Take your time. It's much simpler than you think.

• Keep it simple. Do you really need a lot of expensive equipment to accomplish what you're after? Hand tools for the trade are expensive enough and when you get into specialized equipment like sewing machines specific for sweats and brim bindings, sandbaggers for brim flanging, steamers, etc... you'd better have very deep pockets, especially if you're just starting out or if you're a hobbyist. You can accomplish the same results with simple hand tools specific for the trade, and a steam iron. I only use blocks, flanges, a pusher downer, a puller downer, a ruler, a pencil, a rounding jack, some sandpaper, a sanding block, a flanging cloth, and a steam iron. I can come up with good results by keeping things simple.

• Be patient. Don't rush your work. Take your time and think about it. As with any specialized work, patience is your greatest asset.

• Have a plan in mind for the hat you're wanting to build. Even before you put the felt on the block, have in mind what you want to accomplish with it, the look, the style, the era, ...etc.

• If you don't know, ask questions. There's plenty of experienced hat makers here on the Lounge who would be happy to help you with advice if you have a question or if you run into a little difficulty. Don't be afraid to ask.

great tips, thanks! what type of steam iron would you recommend someone starting out hat making? I've been looking around and saw people recommend Reliable and Rowenta however they're a bit pricey, would a regular steam iron be okay? does it need to have a strong steam boost?

 

[T Jones]

great tips, thanks! what type of steam iron would you recommend someone starting out hat making? I've been looking around and saw people recommend Reliable and Rowenta however they're a bit pricey, would a regular steam iron be okay? does it need to have a strong steam boost?

A regular steam iron will work just fine. Make sure you put some white cloth between your iron and your hat. Go easy on the heat, keep your iron moving, and use steam sparingly.

 

[KarlEscobar10]

A regular steam iron will work just fine. Make sure you put some white cloth between your iron and your hat. Go easy on the heat, keep your iron moving, and use steam sparingly.

got it, appreciate ya answering my question! I wasn't sure what type of steam iron to get as most of the ones I've seen here are the higher end ones, it's good to know a regular steam iron is good enough to make a quality hat!

 

[belfastboy]

got it, appreciate ya answering my question! I wasn't sure what type of steam iron to get as most of the ones I've seen here are the higher end ones, it's good to know a regular steam iron is good enough to make a quality hat!

I got tired of taking my wife's out of her craft room so bought an almost new iron off Craigslist for $15

 

[belfastboy]

Here is a work in progress. It is one for my wife. The brim will be stiffened with shellac, and then a pencil curl. Thinking of something interesting for the bash....asymmetrical? I am using light weight fur felt (Czech) but millinery seconds that cost me $10 landed. Lots of room to screw up at that price.

 

[belfastboy]

got it, appreciate ya answering my question! I wasn't sure what type of steam iron to get as most of the ones I've seen here are the higher end ones, it's good to know a regular steam iron is good enough to make a quality hat!

A very minor consideration but if you have a choice pick an iron with a decent sized water reservoir. Otherwise you will spend too much time on the refilling of it.