Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[belfastboy]

My accounting friends tell me reducing fixed costs is a key ingredient to profits and staying in business.

The custom hat business is not your standard business. Even the lowest priced hat maker (me) can turn a profit selling beaver felt hats. I agree that keeping one's over head is critical but the felt chosen just provides the base line from which a mark up is attached. In the hat making business the ceiling is very high as all hat makers are using identical products purchased at the same price (save for the proprietary Optimo felts). A beaver felt will run you $150 to $235 and sell for $350 to $1300. With that there is no impediment to beaver as the same dynamics hold as they do for rabbit at $65 to $100 and sell for $250 to $500. With beaver felt there is more potential for profits than there is for rabbit. And considering your other fixed costs; rent, heat, taxes, then beaver would likely make more sense as a choice as there is more potential for profit.

 

[townaj]

I find it interesting that 80+ years ago the cowboys spent more of their hours outdoors and were exposed to harsher conditions, and yet the felt of the era was thinner and much less stiff that modern western felt. It has more to do with style and changing preferences than usefulness or longevity. Personally, there’s room
In my hat collection for modern firm/stiff western hats, vintage moldable hats, and customs that run the gamut.

I’d put a modern pure beaver firm cowboy hat from Northwest at $600 up against those costing more than twice as much made by most of the big names in custom cowboy hats that have passed through my hands.

If only Winchester hadn't locked their books down. At $600 Id barely make anything off them considering the prices of felts at other suppliers. Chaz Mitchell is at that price point as well I believe. Or at least he was a year ago when a customer of mine got her western from him.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

If only Winchester hadn't locked their books down. At $600 Id barely make anything off them considering the prices of felts at other suppliers. Chaz Mitchell is at that price point as well I believe. Or at least he was a year ago when a customer of mine got her western from him.

The last western Northwest made me was from the Millinery Warehouse 100% beaver which sells for $230, which is considerably more than what Winchester charges for western beaver hat bodies. The FEPSA western beaver felt is very expensive, but I m tempted to try one…maybe I’ll have Michael Gannon make me one someday.

 

[townaj]

The last western Northwest made me was from the Millinery Warehouse 100% beaver which sells for $230, which is considerably more than what Winchester charges for western beaver hat bodies. The FEPSA western beaver felt is very expensive, but I m tempted to try one…maybe I’ll have Michael Gannon make me one someday.

I had priced FEPSA bodies because I think they’re much larger. Allowing me to get the 6” crowns and 5” brims that guys are wanting. I have a lot of inquiries with 8” heads that want a full brim. Are the MW as big? If so that would be a great alternative

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I had priced FEPSA bodies because I think they’re much larger. Allowing me to get the 6” crowns and 5” brims that guys are wanting. I have a lot of inquiries with 8” heads that want a full brim. Are the MW as big? If so that would be a great alternative

I don’t know how large the bodies are. I’ve only seen the finished product and nothing with a brim approaching five inches.

 

[belfastboy]

I had priced FEPSA bodies because I think they’re much larger. Allowing me to get the 6” crowns and 5” brims that guys are wanting. I have a lot of inquiries with 8” heads that want a full brim. Are the MW as big? If so that would be a great alternative

I have only worked with two of their western weight and i think I would be hard pressed to get those dimensions from it especially with a size 8. But phone them and talk to Drew. He is a good guy and most helpful.

I have yet to work with a FEPSA 100% beaver western but have worked with the 230gr blend. It is not a great felt in my opinion, not for the money they want. It is absolutely corragated cardboard stiff.

 

[townaj]

I have only worked with two of their western weight and i think I would be hard pressed to get those dimensions from it especially with a size 8. But phone them and talk to Drew. He is a good guy and most helpful.

I have yet to work with a FEPSA 100% beaver western but have worked with the 230gr blend. It is not a great felt in my opinion, not for the money they want. It is absolutely corragated cardboard stiff.

Thats what I was thinking as well. I'll ask him next time I'm on the phone with him. They're producing some white label hats for us since none of the big manufacturers have closed their books. Should get our first run from him next week.

I can work with stiff, just need the size. I can't get my wallet past the expense to try one out yet though

 

[belfastboy]

Thats what I was thinking as well. I'll ask him next time I'm on the phone with him. They're producing some white label hats for us since none of the big manufacturers have closed their books. Should get our first run from him next week.

I can work with stiff, just need the size. I can't get my wallet past the expense to try one out yet though

What is a 'white label' hat?

 

[belfastboy]

I had priced FEPSA bodies because I think they’re much larger. Allowing me to get the 6” crowns and 5” brims that guys are wanting. I have a lot of inquiries with 8” heads that want a full brim. Are the MW as big? If so that would be a great alternative

In my 6 years of hat making I have only ever made one size 8 hat. The guy shed tears of joy when he tried it on as it was the first nice hat he had ever owned because he could not find anything to fit him off the shelf other than ball caps. My size 8 blocks sit lonely on the shelf!!!!

 

[Noeldaigle]

Thanks for all the advice I received when I asked questions here!
After working with my first fur felt (I have rabbit and some rabbit / beaver blend) I can definitely attest to the difference in quality.

The whole process seemed to go smoother just by going from wool felt to fur felt.

The bodies I purchased are pre stiffened so it seemed to literally take that step out of the equation for me and I’m very happy personally with the stiffness I achieved in my first go.

I know there are things to improve and I have a lot to learn, but here’s my first one.

Im excited thinking of all the possibilities!!!

Also not sure if I nailed the shape down, was going for a teardrop crown. The tutorials I watched said to make the back drop just a bit. Will definitely keep practicing.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for all the advice I received when I asked questions here!
After working with my first fur felt (I have rabbit and some rabbit / beaver blend) I can definitely attest to the difference in quality.

The whole process seemed to go smoother just by going from wool felt to fur felt.

The bodies I purchased are pre stiffened so it seemed to literally take that step out of the equation for me and I’m very happy personally with the stiffness I achieved in my first go.

I know there are things to improve and I have a lot to learn, but here’s my first one.

Im excited thinking of all the possibilities!!!

Also not sure if I nailed the shape down, was going for a teardrop crown. The tutorials I watched said to make the back drop just a bit. Will definitely keep practicing.

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Take each hat making step as a chance to learn, an opportunity to get better. I am about 300 hats into my career and every hat I learn a bit more, I learn something new, and get just a little bit better as a hatter. Enjoy the journey as there is no defined destination. If I keep doing this for another 6 years I just may get good at it.

 

[Noeldaigle]

Take each hat making step as a chance to learn, an opportunity to get better. I am about 300 hats into my career and every hat I learn a bit more, I learn something new, and get just a little bit better as a hatter. Enjoy the journey as there is no defined destination. If I keep doing this for another 6 years I just may get good at it.

That’s great advice and I really couldn’t agree more I started out in beadwork and leatherwork (I still do both) so I have learned a lot doing both of those as hobbies over the past 5 years. Mostly how not to do things but I would absolutely agree, you really never stop learning. I think hat making will be the same. I think that’s what keeps one goihn back to a trade or skill or hobby, though. You know there really isn’t an “end.”

 

[belfastboy]

That’s great advice and I really couldn’t agree more I started out in beadwork and leatherwork (I still do both) so I have learned a lot doing both of those as hobbies over the past 5 years. Mostly how not to do things but I would absolutely agree, you really never stop learning. I think hat making will be the same. I think that’s what keeps one goihn back to a trade or skill or hobby, though. You know there really isn’t an “end.”

I suspect if I ever were to reach that point I would retire as it would become repetitive.

 

[belfastboy]

I suspect if I ever were to reach that point I would retire as it would become repetitive.

When I began this journey I decided I wanted to be a hatter that could make any hat a client wanted. I don't have a defined look or style I make the hat the client desires or together we design one in consultation. In this way every hat becomes an adventure and a challenge.

 

[townaj]

In my 6 years of hat making I have only ever made one size 8 hat. The guy shed tears of joy when he tried it on as it was the first nice hat he had ever owned because he could not find anything to fit him off the shelf other than ball caps. My size 8 blocks sit lonely on the shelf!!!!

Very interesting. I’ve had 4 guys in the last couple months call and ask if we made hats that size. I got asked all last year at rodeos if I carried anything that large. I’ve sold 5 or 6 cheaper commercial hats in size 8 just this year. It’s definitely a niche side of the market but the demand is there for us. Folks in my area must have inflated egos or something

A white label hat is just a hat with our brand on it that’s made for my store but not by me. Basically what grocery stores do with their store brand goods. I can’t speak for other stores but it’s very common in the western side of the industry

 

[townaj]

Had a customer bring her late father’s Resistol in for a new sweat and light reshape. The color is very striking. Almost a light denim blue, the original tag inside said granite gray. Original price appeared to be $20

 

[belfastboy]

Interesting; Just heard of two custom hatters that are closing up shop....no one we know here in the Lounge as they are the contemporary BoHo, distressed style of hatters. They don't state why, but I wonder if business is slowing down and the exponential growth in custom hat makers has peaked. Could just be normal attrition or it could be a sign of things to come. Especially as there are so many of us in the market these days.......mostly the distressed BoHo style but a lot of western makers in the market now as well.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Interesting; Just heard of two custom hatters that are closing up shop....no one we know here in the Lounge as they are the contemporary BoHo, distressed style of hatters. They don't state why, but I wonder if business is slowing down and the exponential growth in custom hat makers has peaked. Could just be normal attrition or it could be a sign of things to come. Especially as there are so many of us in the market these days.......mostly the distressed BoHo style but a lot of western makers in the market now as well.

Maybe it will free up felt for the remaining hatters?

 

[belfastboy]

Maybe it will free up felt for the remaining hatters?

I didn't want to say it but that was my thought ......maybe if demand lessens the felt makers will have to compete more on price to get our business. I continue to wonder, with all these BoHo hat makers out there, yet I have never seen one being worn out on the streets. Now Vancouver is not exactly a fashion capital but it is not the backwoods either.

 

[Rmccamey]

Were they established, long term businesses or relatively new? I have scads of hobiest jewelry makers in the area who start a little business as their " creative outlet" only to close up shop a few years later when they figure out that being a craftsman is not as simple, or fun, as they thought it would be.

Interesting; Just heard of two custom hatters that are closing up shop....no one we know here in the Lounge as they are the contemporary BoHo, distressed style of hatters. They don't state why, but I wonder if business is slowing down and the exponential growth in custom hat makers has peaked. Could just be normal attrition or it could be a sign of things to come. Especially as there are so many of us in the market these days.......mostly the distressed BoHo style but a lot of western makers in the market now as well.