"Great Coat" in the middle of summer

[Edward]

Edward - there are plenty of 'em at e-bay.
"RAF great coat", "RAF Greatcoat" or plain "Great coat" Good hunting

Yeah, I've been looking at the ones on Surplusandadventure as linked to earleir in the thread - GBP25 for an unissued coat, you can't be bad to that... Things are just a little tight thins month, maybe in October!

Anyone know anything about the sizing on those? I'm a 42R in a suit, always take a 44 in an overcoat.... does a large cover that? I don't know if it's only me, but it seems there's no standardisation whatever. I wear a medium in a T shirt, but in some things even a 42 is considered an XL. And I'm not exaclty big..... you'd think the way sizings work, there's half the population should be running around naked cause they can't get anything to fit!

 

[Starius]

I've been thinking of getting a military great coat soon, myself. Possibly a vintage WW2 one, but I did have one concern about cleaning a old wool coat like that. Whats the best way, have it dry cleaned? And what are the odds a old wool great coat might have a odor about it? Would dry cleaning get rid of that too?

 

[Edward]

Dry cleaning seems to deal with a multittude of sins in my experience.... if, as once happened with me, a dry clean can lift a red wine stain from a natural coloured linen suit without damaging the linen, then it's gonig to be a pretty damn safe bet for your vintage greatcoat!

As a rule, I would be wary of buying something that smelled unduly (it wouldn't be the first time I encountered "vintage" that smelled like an elderly pussycat had mistaken it for the litter tray...), but if something is simply a bit musty, a dry clean should shift that no problems. JMO and YMMV, but if you're looking for a vintage style overcoat on the cheap, I would strongly recommend looking into what's available in present day military surplus stores. A lot of that, IME, is 60s / 70s / into the early 80s (in UK terms, from what little knowledge I have, there appears to be a distinct post war through to the Falklands - 1945-1982 - period that a lot of stuff is from). The big advantage with military wear from this period is that so much of it, dress uniforms in particular, changed so little in that period (a lot of dress uniforms don't seem to have changed at all since the war) that if what you're concverned with is buying a vintage style coat rather than actual vintage, you can find something great for little outlay. IMO, if you're buying something to wear in a civilian context without insignia as opposed to war or pre-war reenactment, most any change in design to a greatcoat in the immediate post war period is so little different that it could easily pass as looking correct for a civilian coat in an earlier era.

No doubt there's a lot of folks on here who know better, but that would be my feeling on the matter.

 

[Starius]

Dry cleaning seems to deal with a multittude of sins in my experience.... if, as once happened with me, a dry clean can lift a red wine stain from a natural coloured linen suit without damaging the linen, then it's gonig to be a pretty damn safe bet for your vintage greatcoat!

As a rule, I would be wary of buying something that smelled unduly (it wouldn't be the first time I encountered "vintage" that smelled like an elderly pussycat had mistaken it for the litter tray...), but if something is simply a bit musty, a dry clean should shift that no problems. JMO and YMMV, but if you're looking for a vintage style overcoat on the cheap, I would strongly recommend looking into what's available in present day military surplus stores. A lot of that, IME, is 60s / 70s / into the early 80s (in UK terms, from what little knowledge I have, there appears to be a distinct post war through to the Falklands - 1945-1982 - period that a lot of stuff is from). The big advantage with military wear from this period is that so much of it, dress uniforms in particular, changed so little in that period (a lot of dress uniforms don't seem to have changed at all since the war) that if what you're concverned with is buying a vintage style coat rather than actual vintage, you can find something great for little outlay. IMO, if you're buying something to wear in a civilian context without insignia as opposed to war or pre-war reenactment, most any change in design to a greatcoat in the immediate post war period is so little different that it could easily pass as looking correct for a civilian coat in an earlier era.

No doubt there's a lot of folks on here who know better, but that would be my feeling on the matter.

Thanks for the advice Edward. Indeed, my question did spring from the fact that I saw a Belgium great coat in a online surplus store that I just loved. Decent price too, yet I turned to ebay and put a bid on a vintage WW2 army greatcoat instead, to see if I could get it for less money.
I am starting to have a bit of "bidders remorse" now, as I would like to use this coat throughout the winter and I think the Belgium one I saw would be more suitable in that regard. Oh well, just have to wait and see what happens here.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Edward,

RAF officers' greatcoats have five pairs of buttons on the front, while the 'other ranks' coats has only 4 pairs.

Officers' coats also have 3 buttons at each wrist, while the other ranks coat has none.

The officers greatcoat is belted while the other ranks is not.

All are/were available in a range of height sizes, which has the effect of achieving a longer length on a shorter wearer. As the actor playing him is known to be quite short, I suggest that Captain Jack's coat is a tall size officer's coat without the belt. There are, of course, no Captains in the RAF.


Alan

Button on the sleeves.... yes, I don't see those on the RAF surplus one - I guess those could be added (I don't remember enough to know whether they were on there as standard in the 40s....). As for the other buttons, I think it's a question of perspective - looks to me like the buttons on Harkness' coat that we don't see on the other one are higher up, and under the lapels of the coat (i.e. the button that the lapel fastens onto when the coat is being worn fully done up). I see what you mean about the legnth on Harknesses.... I can't tell from those photos. Way back in WW1, I know, the standard issue greatcoats were definitely a long length, reaching almost to the ankles. When Thomas Burberry designed the trenchcoat, he deliberately went for a shorter length, cutting them to the knee. AFAIK - and again going from memory from the one hanging in my parents' loft - even by WW2 the RAF SI greatcoat was still the longer length. I'd suspect that Harkness' is the same length as the standard issue, but is likely to have a more tailored waist (assuming it has been made to measure) than the standard, which could give the impression of greater length. Purely speculation, though!

 

[Edward]

Edward,

RAF officers' greatcoats have five pairs of buttons on the front, while the 'other ranks' coats has only 4 pairs.

Officers' coats also have 3 buttons at each wrist, while the other ranks coat has none.

The officers greatcoat is belted while the other ranks is not.

All are/were available in a range of height sizes, which has the effect of achieving a longer length on a shorter wearer. As the actor playing him is known to be quite short, I suggest that Captain Jack's coat is a tall size officer's coat without the belt. There are, of course, no Captains in the RAF.


Alan

Aha! That begins to make more sense now. I didn't think of that, but it makes sense that the officer's coat is that bit fancier - always the way with uniforms in general. The senior guy gets something that bit nicer, plus the differences also I presume help to mark out an officer at a glance with the coat on over the uniform.

I didn't know there were no Captains in the RAF.... is that something that torchwood got wrong, or was the guy whose name Jack took an American? I can't quite recall.

 

[Starius]

Aha! That begins to make more sense now. I didn't think of that, but it makes sense that the officer's coat is that bit fancier - always the way with uniforms in general. The senior guy gets something that bit nicer, plus the differences also I presume help to mark out an officer at a glance with the coat on over the uniform.

I didn't know there were no Captains in the RAF.... is that something that torchwood got wrong, or was the guy whose name Jack took an American? I can't quite recall.

Jack always played himself as a American, and the original Captain Jack Harkness he got his name from was a American as well. Though, Harkness sounds very much like a British name to me.

 

[HungaryTom]

OK, now it's official: Flieger is stark raving mad.

So its fall again - Flieger has the nice coat. Who is raving mad?

Those who dont have one now.

Kind Regards:

Tom

 

[Starius]

I just bit the bullet and ordered myself a Belgian Great Coat.
Expect my full review of it whenever it arrives!

 

[Flieger]

LOL! Thanks Tom! lol

I wear my coat every chance I get these days and I'm loving it.

It doesn't make me look anywhere as cool as Jack Harkness but I'm as snug as a bug in a rug.

/Flieger

 

[Anixtu]

I just bit the bullet and ordered myself a Belgian Great Coat.
Expect my full review of it whenever it arrives!

I have one, and I'd say it was designed with features to a specification without any intention of the features actually being able to fulfill their purpose.

For example, it has a hook and loop for closing the neck, but the configuration of the lapels means that hook cannot meet loop. The top buttons, those hiding under the collar cannot actually be used to button it up, the cut of the lapels doesn't allow it. There is a flap for buttoning the collar close up that just about works but I'd be afraid of straining the button.

It's like a stylised parade version with the features of a field garment there for show only. But most of them are hidden so I don't see why anyone went to the expense of fitting them!

 

[Starius]

I have one, and I'd say it was designed with features to a specification without any intention of the features actually being able to fulfill their purpose.

For example, it has a hook and loop for closing the neck, but the configuration of the lapels means that hook cannot meet loop. The top buttons, those hiding under the collar cannot actually be used to button it up, the cut of the lapels doesn't allow it. There is a flap for buttoning the collar close up that just about works but I'd be afraid of straining the button.

It's like a stylised parade version with the features of a field garment there for show only. But most of them are hidden so I don't see why anyone went to the expense of fitting them!

Welcome to the Lounge, Anixtu!

And that is a bit peculiar about the coat... elements for style purposes instead of function? Not what I was expecting. How is the quality in terms of material components? (I guess I will find out myself in a few days. I got a notice it was shipped the other day.)

 

[Anixtu]

Mine is dated 1967. I'd say the quality is more or less what I'd expect from a mass-produced item for military issue - functional and sturdy enough. The wool is slightly coarse. Finer than my gulag quality Russian navy greatcoat, but coarser than my mystery German greatcoat. I've not had occasion to wear it yet. It is quite short for a greatcoat, but then I'm 6'0" so taller than the standard 1960s Belgian soldier.

I wouldn't say the elements are there for style as such, because they aren't actually visible. It's more like "the specification says we need 4 rows of buttons, but as no-one will ever use the top row we won't cut the coat and sew them in a position such that they can be used." Also the collar and lapels are sewn together though only at one point so they could easily be separated.

 

[Anixtu]

This is my "mystery German greatcoat":

The label inside the left inside pocket:

RAKA
US 1 2e/01/15471/001/3
[stamped] P5/64
170/104
8405-12-132-1969

Line 1 - manufacturer's name?
Line 2 - manufacturer's serial numbers?
Line 3 - QC and date stamp?
Line 4 - size
Line 5 - NSN

So all I know is that it is German, from the style and NSN, which dates it to post 1955. The stamped portion implies 1964. What I don't know at all is what branch of service it was made for. Any ideas?

 

[Spitfire]

Just remember that I believe I have seen the same leather top on some green "police coats"(German) in a surplusstore here in Copenhagen. Just a hint. Is it black or navyblue?

 

[Anixtu]

Just remember that I believe I have seen the same leather top on some green "police coats"(German) in a surplusstore here in Copenhagen. Just a hint. Is it black or navyblue?

The lighting in the photo isn't very good. The artificial leather top portion is actually grey, as is the rest of the coat but the photo makes it appear darker. The lining is green.

I've put a new photo up so that it's a bit clearer. The old photo was: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Anixtu/Forum Posts/CoatFrontButtoned.jpg

 

[RedOctober]

I'm actually looking for essentially that exact coat. I found one at a military surplus store here in the US, but it was too large for me. The one I found was dark blue however, if I remember correctly.

 

[Anixtu]

I'm actually looking for essentially that exact coat. I found one at a military surplus store here in the US, but it was too large for me. The one I found was dark blue however, if I remember correctly.

Was it anything like this?

That one is being sold on ebay. It looks almost identical to my grey one, though the button placement or height of the bottom of the vinyl are slightly different.

More photos at: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Anixtu/Forum Posts/German Navy Overcoat/

 

[John Lever]

I have just seen this. It looks very unusual -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ebayphotohosting


John

 

[airspirit]

I know this is a bit of a necrobump, but I've been looking at surplus military greatcoats recently myself with this year's turn to winter, and it would appear that all the RAF greatcoats have disappeared. Danish army greatcoats look almost identical with similar buttons but again: all gone. I have inquiries in to a kiwi outlet that has a few remaining RAF coats, so I'm keeping my hopes high.

In the meantime, anyone have any ideas where else to be looking for these jackets that has them in stock?

On second thoughts, anyone have an opinion on this? http://www.surplusandadventure.com/.../genuine-military-issue-wool-coat-523396.html