Goodwear Jackets why the attraction

[jonbuilder]

Just my observation, recently p, Boyo post his (whish it was my jacket) Hercules and one week later and nine pages the discussions are still going on. A few months back a Goodwear jacket is posted and the moderators shut it down, (IMO for good reason ) Terry's recent Goodwear sells in record time. I have a passion for leather jackets as do the majority of regular posters here, I lack the skill of some to express my thoughts. I do have on Goodwear I purchased from John when be was making jackets out of a garage in Berkley. I will have this jacket for life. No, I am not going to send in a deposit and wait for? but no denying in my mind Goodwear jackets attack admiration and attention.
Because I can not explain the attraction, I welcome anyone else to do so

 

[Bfd70]

Unobtainium is well known to be the most sought after tanning process.

 

[tropicalbob]

Just my observation, recently p, Boyo post his (whish it was my jacket) Hercules and one week later and nine pages the discussions are still going on. A few months back a Goodwear jacket is posted and the moderators shut it down, (IMO for good reason ) Terry's recent Goodwear sells in record time. I have a passion for leather jackets as do the majority of regular posters here, I lack the skill of some to express my thoughts. I do have on Goodwear I purchased from John when be was making jackets out of a garage in Berkley. I will have this jacket for life. No, I am not going to send in a deposit and wait for? but no denying in my mind Goodwear jackets attack admiration and attention.
Because I can not explain the attraction, I welcome anyone else to do so

Because they're beautiful. I'm not particularly attracted to A-2's, but when I saw Sloane's photos on the arrival of his GW I wanted one badly. The question is: do I have the time, the money, and the patience?

 

[Dr H]

Fine workmanship, excellent materials, accuracy to pattern, wide range of patterns...

 

[Seb Lucas]

My take on this is that in almost every hobby someone always ends up as the Big Name. And generally this is not just about quality, it is also about personal qualities and relationships built with others. John's history as an enthusiast of jackets and a man who has built a vast knowledge of A2's and other styles is prodigious. Historically he has been generous with his time and knowledge and as an individual has helped to shape the jacket collecting hobby we all enjoy today.

This goodwill has helped to imbue his already well built products with additional mystique. I personally think this now has a near cult like status. Those sorts of reactions to a maker are unscientific and are perhaps over the top, depending on your perspective. I think this is a phenomenon we see in many areas - builders of musical instruments is perhaps the most obvious comparison.

There's something ironic to me about these perfect A2's which are so much better made and agonised over in their production compared to the real (often hastily built) A2's of variable quality they were based on. There's nothing wrong with this, but for me it represents something different to just the collecting of leather jackets. It is closer to pursuing an idealised, almost Platonic ideal.

 

[jonesy86]

They are nice jackets.


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[rockandrollrabbit]

My take on this is that in almost every hobby someone always ends up as the Big Name. And generally this is not just about quality, it is also about personal qualities and relationships built with others. John's history as an enthusiast of jackets and a man who has built a vast knowledge of A2's and other styles is prodigious. Historically he has been generous with his time and knowledge and as an individual has helped to shape the jacket collecting hobby we all enjoy today.

This goodwill has helped to imbue his already well built products with additional mystique. I personally think this now has a near cult like status. Those sorts of reactions to a maker are unscientific and are perhaps over the top, depending on your perspective. I think this is a phenomenon we see in many areas - builders of musical instruments is perhaps the most obvious comparison.

There's something ironic to me about these perfect A2's which are so much better made and agonised over in their production compared to the real (often hastily built) A2's of variable quality they were based on. There's nothing wrong with this, but for me it represents something different to just the collecting of leather jackets. It is closer to pursuing an idealised, almost Platonic ideal.

Nailed it. This, all of it.

 

[steve u]

They are nice jackets.

You talk to much!
steve

 

[sweetfights]

I currently have one Good Wear Beck 666 cafe racer. It is brilliant. Stitching, pattern, leather, function; it has it all.
I had no idea why so much attention was given Good Wear jackets until I had one of my very own.
I would not hesitate to own another.

 

[AeroFan_07]

My take on this is that in almost every hobby someone always ends up as the Big Name. And generally this is not just about quality, it is also about personal qualities and relationships built with others. John's history as an enthusiast of jackets and a man who has built a vast knowledge of A2's and other styles is prodigious. Historically he has been generous with his time and knowledge and as an individual has helped to shape the jacket collecting hobby we all enjoy today.

This goodwill has helped to imbue his already well built products with additional mystique. I personally think this now has a near cult like status. Those sorts of reactions to a maker are unscientific and are perhaps over the top, depending on your perspective. I think this is a phenomenon we see in many areas - builders of musical instruments is perhaps the most obvious comparison.

There's something ironic to me about these perfect A2's which are so much better made and agonised over in their production compared to the real (often hastily built) A2's of variable quality they were based on. There's nothing wrong with this, but for me it represents something different to just the collecting of leather jackets. It is closer to pursuing an idealised, almost Platonic ideal.

I think Seb Lucas hit the nail on the head here! Very concise & thorough.

I have owned A2's a few times but at this point in life have no interest in any "bomber" style leather jacket. I have handled the "Californian" jacket that Terry just sold in record time. It was a very fine piece of work.

Perhaps the best I can liken this to is fine furniture. Stickley, based out of New York State, makes some of the finest hardwood furniture that can indeed last a lifetime. However it takes a very detailed person to recognize and appreciate it's quality, especially if one sees the price first. How and why it's constructed makes the difference.

 

[Blackadder]

Unobtainium is well known to be the most sought after tanning process.

May hold true now but back then quite a number of us were able to get one within a year or two. No deposit was required back then. Those who did were quick to compare their GWs with Aeros and Eastmans. I don't think their praise on GW were bias that they were affected by the "Unobtainium" back then. From what I saw in the recent GW posts, GW's quality does hold over the years unlike say Polo Ralph Lauren which has become only slightly better than H&M.

I was seriously thinking about getting an A-2 from GW but even a one year wait gives me pause. I also realize from the Aero, BK and LW I bought that serious modification has to been done in order for the Westerner's pattern to "fit" me (the length and sleeves have to be shorten with the corresponding parts like waist, armhole and sleeves narrowed proportionately).

As for the present, we have not talked about or seen any GW for quite a while so it may be understandable that people would take an interest.

Finally, I would not wait four years for a jacket. I hate queuing and waiting. I rarely order custom items. I have stopped going for bespoke suits and shirts after I lost weight and have gone back to buying off the rack ones.

 

[red devil]

Not having handled a GW yet (if ever), I am curious as to how it really is.

 

[ton312]

Frankly I don’t understand all the over the top praise. I had a Ventura in my possession for 24hrs and literally couldn’t get rid of it fast enough. The quality to me felt at least one tier below my worst Aero. Flimsy hide, liner felt like old Brimaco. Stitching wasn’t anything that made me ignore the larger picture of poor fit and so so construction. Nothing special at all.

I am not a flight jacket guy. I don’t know enough to comment in that realm. I suppose I could buy the cd-rom and find out? LOL. Let that sink in for a minute.

All that said, if the right opportunity came along...I’d welcome the opportunity to have my mind changed.

 

[handymike]

I love mine.
I bought it 5 years ago. When I wanted a jacket that (at that time I ordered) no one was making, I went to John. He agreed to take on the project, and we had many long conversations about details, history, exactly what to do with the leather. After receiving the jacket, I wanted some tweaks, and he made me a new one - no questions. I’ve been back in line with a new project for a couple of years. It’s fine with me.

 

[Blackadder]

I do prefer GW's A-2 to Aero's simply because the patch pockets on Aero's A-2s don't have the right curve. Aero could have done better and yet they left them at that. Oh and I don't want a 3.5 oz heavy HH A-2, so no Horween CXL please, flimsy shiniki or even vicenza would do.

 

[Superfluous]

Quality and workmanship are overrated and plainly an inconceivable reason for favoring GW – that would be way too obvious and superficial.

Consistent with those here who subtly suggest ulterior, nefarious, and/or dysfunctional motives for those who favor GW jackets, the following is a list of the real reasons why I, personally, favor GW jackets:

1. I have drank excessive servings of the hallucinogenic kool-aid underlying the consistent and enduring praise of GW’s quality and workmanship, and I am now a catatonic sheep following the herd, incapable of making an independent evaluation of GW’s jackets.

2. The long wait to acquire a GW jacket is proof positive that the jackets are profoundly superior in every respect and possess mythical properties that enable the wearer to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

3. I am desperate for approval and will by purchase literally anything that I believe will garner third party approval – particularly the approval of complete strangers that I will never meet in person.

4. I will purchase anything that is expensive because I believe there is a direct, lock-step correlation between cost and quality.

5. I believe ownership of GW jackets will elevate my social status and cause others to be envious of me.

Thank you for allowing me to cleanse my soul and come clean regarding the real reasons why I favor GW jackets.

With the singular exception of @ton312 , I cannot recall anyone else who purchased a GW jacket and thereafter sold the jacket because he perceived it as inferior in quality and workmanship. I certainly cannot recall anyone else who was so repulsed by the quality of a GW jacket that he – in @ton312 's words – "literally couldn’t get rid of it fast enough." Am I forgetting someone else who had a similar experience? Thus, @ton312 's unfortunate disappointment appears to be the exception to the overwhelming majority of GW owners who are apparently satisfied, if not thrilled, with the quality and workmanship of their GW jackets. Just look at the posts from GW owners in @Boyo 's recent thread – consistent praise of GW's quality and workmanship. Perhaps we all have been deceived and hoodwinked? I am going to go out on a limb and suggest an alternate explanation for the consistent and enduring praise of GW's quality and workmanship: . . . drum roll . . . maybe, just maybe, the quality and workmanship of GW's jackets are, with rare exceptions, first rate and worthy of consistent, enduring praise . . . maybe, just maybe, the consistent and enduring praise is well deserved, and not the product of some broad, amorphous, fraud.

John Chapman employs first rate workmanship to create top notch, high quality jackets. Isn’t that enough of a reason to favor the jackets? Does there have to be someone nefarious, subversive, or illegitimate explanation? Isn’t first rate workmanship and top notch quality enough?

Has GW cornered the market on well made jackets? Of course not! Are there better made jackets? Absolutely!!! Is GW the end all, be all? Definitely not!!! Can one achieve outerwear nirvana without ever owning a GW jacket? Absolutely! GW is merely one of several well made jackets and, just as I favor other well made jackets, I also favor GW jackets for the exact some reason.

Spoiler alter: There is no subplot here. The reasons for favoring GW jackets are not complex, nor mired with psychological intrigue. Its as simple as workmanship and quality (some would add accuracy of patterns, but I personally could care less about this factor).

 

[ton312]

With the singular exception of @ton312 , I cannot recall anyone else who purchased a GW jacket and thereafter sold the jacket because he perceived it as inferior in quality and workmanship.

I don’t think this is accurate. Did you not send your GW to Himel for alteration to the body length, sleeve diameter? Can’t recall exactly. I can’t imagine I’m the only person to purchase a GW and be underwhelmed. Granted mine was a second hand purchase. So, while I understand the majority of your post and would tend to agree, you ignored the fact that you were in fact dissatisfied with your own GW. Until you had Dave alter it.

 

[Superfluous]

I don’t think this is accurate. Did you not send your GW to Himel for alteration to the body length, sleeve diameter? Can’t recall exactly. I can’t imagine I’m the only person to purchase a GW and be underwhelmed. Granted mine was a second hand purchase. So, while I understand the majority of your post and would tend to agree, you ignored the fact that you were in fact dissatisfied with your own GW. Until you had Dave alter it.

My comments regarding dissatisfaction were addressed to quality issues, as distinct from fit issues.

 

[CBI]

At first, it was mostly about A-2 jackets. I collected originals and repros. When a GW arrived in the mail, it simply looked the most like the originals in my collection....period (compared to any other maker at the time). I have owned 15 GW's I think over the years. In many cases, I needed to sell some in order to get a newer GW with perhaps a new hide option or new contact option. John was/is a fanatic for detail and these jackets were/are wonderful copies. In terms of repros, they were a step up from Eastman, Real McCoys, etc. Eastman has really upped its game as a result of GW in recent years. GW still has the edge.

John's attention to authenticity is the same with his other military jackets. I know when GW started there were many repro collectors with closets full of Eastman's and Real McCoy's who could simply not accept that a new maker did more authentic work so there was loads of ego based totally unnecessary venom spewed at John.......a guy just trying to make awesome jackets. Oh, as well as GW owners proud to say their jackets were better than the Eastman's and Aeros of the world. These jackets (GW) are now super popular with a multi-year waiting list. I think the super long wait still sparks venom. Many potential buyers just don't want to wait that long so instead of simply and quietly not ordering one, they have to knock GW down a few notches since the jackets are not easily attainable............one has to wait. Think of it, if someone wants an authentic repro, they can go with an Eastman, spend $1,400 only to be reminded that a Good Wear is probably better. That is going to cause some "emotion".

I have "known" John for years and was one of his first big customers. We spend much time on the phone talking over the years. He's a super guy, not perfect, no one is, he never said he was. He just likes making great jackets, can't find the help that he is satisfied with so it remains a one man manufacturing operation (he does have admin help).

Then attraction is the authenticity to originals combined with very superior workmanship.........work all done by HIM, no farming out. Someone with a hyper attention to detail, authenticity and quality making YOUR jacket. It's HIS company, HIS name, making your jacket. There is a commitment there that is pretty hard to duplicate even with the most loyal and dedicated employees.

Remember, 95% of GW's customers are not jacket forum members so any GW "atmosphere" on this site (pro or con) is not representative of a large swath of GW customers.

On a personal note, I have grown further and further away from wearing vintage anything (including leather) so that is why most of my GW's (and every other vintage repro clothing item) have gone away. I still own a few as well as a number of original jackets.

I can't speak for John's civilian jackets but I am sure the workmanship is exceptional.

IMO, the other premium makers do great work and I have truly enjoyed Eastman's, Aero's, The Few, Real McCoy's, Diamond, etc. in the past.

 

[ton312]

My comments regarding dissatisfaction were addressed to quality issues, as distinct from fit issues.

I understand. To me those are not mutually exclusive. But yes I was disappointed with hide and while the construction wasn’t poor, it wasn’t anything new/ exemplary either. There’s not much I haven’t seen.
All considered I certainly would give GW another shot. I am not a brand loyalist. Bring it to me. I’ll tell you the truth.