Gloves

[Alan Eardley]

I used to be keen on gloves, but sort of 'went off them' a few years ago. But this weekend I found a pair in a charity (goodwill) shop that just may start me all over again... A pair of 1920s vintage men's gloves by Firkins of Worcester in unworn condition. In naked goatskin, English thumb, mother of pearl buttons taped rather than sewn, pricked seams. Lovely Firkins were one of the best makers in Worcester (home of English glovemaking) in the 19th Century* - Dent Allcroft and Fownes being just about the only ones that survived after WW2.

Incidentally, on the subject of gloves, I recently saw a 19th Century Limerick glove, fine enough to roll up and fit into a walnut shell. I have often read of such things, but half believed that they were a device of fiction. Well, they exist. The glove was in incredibly fine calfskin, inseam sewn and embroidered. It fitted perfectly into the nut shell (probably less than 1 1/2 cubic inches) and was in excellent though fragile condition, being over 150 years old. Really excellent tanning! They were often made as singles and in this form were used as love tokens and invitations to social events. Has anyone else ever seen such gloves?

Alan

*See The Leather Glove Industry of Worcester in the 19th Century
by D. C Lyes

 

[scotrace]

Thanks for starting this one, Alan. Do you happen to have any photos of the gloves you've found?

There's an interesting glove project afoot around here somewhere...

 

[Smithy]

I was never terribly interested in gloves until I first came to Norway and I suddenly realised the necessity of such items.

Apart from my polar ones (very new fangled) I have my father's old private purchase brown "officer gloves" from when he was in the air force. They are English and beautiful leather but unfortunately rather beaten up now. I looked into having them reconditioned when I was last back in NZ but nobody would go near them saying the sewing was too specialised. Does anybody know of anyone (preferably in Europe or the UK) who might be up to the task of repairing them?

 

[lyburnum]

Where did you see the Limerick gloves? I saw a pair on TV recently made out of aborted calfskin, apparently they're worth an absolute fortune.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Where did you see the Limerick gloves? I saw a pair on TV recently made out of aborted calfskin, apparently they're worth an absolute fortune.

Were they the two odd ones on History Detectives? If so, they were French, rather than Irish, but of much the same style and purpose. I missed that programme, but I have been told that the presenters didn't seem to realise the symbolic nature of the gloves - they mentioned that there were two singles rather than a pair (and were mystified by that), that they were sent to a lady with invitations to balls, and that they were contained in a nutshell, but didn't put one and one and one together to make three. All of these facts were symbolic - until the 18th Century a glove was used as a token to summon someone to an occasion or a tryst, almost in a way that could not be refused. Those gloves were almost certainly not made in pairs and were not made to be worn. Here is an extract from a late medieval song called William Norrie (from the Childe Ballads). The eponymous hero asks his friend John to take a glove to a noble lady (secretly his mother, but assumed to be his lover until the penultimate verse) to call her to meet him in his woodland home:
Take to her this glove, John
'Tis lined with silver grey
It bids her come to the greenwood
To meet with her young Willie.

Another symbolic use of a glove at roughly the same period was, of course, to issue a challenge to combat by striking someone with it.

The one I was lucky enough to see is in the private collection of a lady in Derbyshire. She has some 18th and 19th Century clothes that would make most museums jealous, but is (I doubt she is reading this) rather eccentric and private in her old age. A friend who is a volunteer guide at a National Trust property to which she occasionally lends items introduced me to her and it took me absolutely ages to gain her confidence enough to be invited to visit her.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Thanks for starting this one, Alan. Do you happen to have any photos of the gloves you've found?

There's an interesting glove project afoot around here somewhere...

Scott

Sorry, I don't have a digital camera, so photographs are contingent on me:
a) Getting a 120 or 127 or 620 film for any of my 'real' cameras;
b) Finishing off a 36 exposure 35mm film that is currently in my Leica;
c) Being visited by my daughter who has one of those camera phone things.
All of these may take some time!

Gloves are fascinating and repay patience and care by being among the easier of clothing items to make, providing you get the pattern right and can master the double needle method of stitching. I can feel my interest in them reviving!

Alan

 

[lyburnum]

Yes it was history detectives I saw them on. They did work out by the end that the gloves were used as an invitation, and because of how fine the craftsmanship was on them (apparently the best they'd ever seen) they decided it was most likely an invitation by someone of royalty.

 

[Alan Eardley]

I was never terribly interested in gloves until I first came to Norway and I suddenly realised the necessity of such items.

Apart from my polar ones (very new fangled) I have my father's old private purchase brown "officer gloves" from when he was in the air force. They are English and beautiful leather but unfortunately rather beaten up now. I looked into having them reconditioned when I was last back in NZ but nobody would go near them saying the sewing was too specialised. Does anybody know of anyone (preferably in Europe or the UK) who might be up to the task of repairing them?

They are probably by Dent & Co - do they have a button, a press-stud or elastic at the wrist? Dents are still in business in Warminster, Wiltshire, although I'm not sure if they do repairs. I don't agree about the sewing, BTW. It's basic twin needle work. The current British Army officers glove is of good quality, cheap (less than 10 GBP in most places) and apart from the elastic fastening is very like the earlier version.

For what its worth, IMHO the white French Army gloves are the nicest, most 'period' and often the cheapest.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Yes it was history detectives I saw them on. They did work out by the end that the gloves were used as an invitation, and because of how fine the craftsmanship was on them (apparently the best they'd ever seen) they decided it was most likely an invitation by someone of royalty.

I wish I'd seen that. Dent's made the (single) glove for the coronation of HM Queen Elizabeth. I remember watching it (my first TV experience) being presented to her on a cushion and asking my mother why there was only one. Extemporising, Mum told me that she would get the other one later!

Alan

 

[dhermann1]

Now that someone has brought up the subject, the glove season is upon us, and I'm still wearing the ill fitting pair I've had for a couple of years. Most places you go nowadays only carry S M and L. I remember going to nice 5th Ave dept stores where you could actually get gloves that fit properly, with like 10 or 12 different sizes. Are these available anywhere any more? Or did they get driven out by the cheapo alternatives?
Every time I see Hercule Poirot neatly folding those elegant grey gloves of his, I want a pair! I'll bet they fit like a . . . errr . . . . a glove!

 

[Smithy]

They are probably by Dent & Co - do they have a button, a press-stud or elastic at the wrist? Dents are still in business in Warminster, Wiltshire, although I'm not sure if they do repairs. I don't agree about the sewing, BTW. It's basic twin needle work. The current British Army officers glove is of good quality, cheap (less than 10 GBP in most places) and apart from the elastic fastening is very like the earlier version.

For what its worth, IMHO the white French Army gloves are the nicest, most 'period' and often the cheapest.

Alan

Hi Alan,

They have a brownish-burgundy press-stud which says "Newey Brothers Ltd, Birmingham" on the inside of the stud. Unfortunately my sewing skills only extend to buttons and darning socks, and the linings need repair as well as the outer leather. They are nice gloves and due to the family history of them I'd like to get them fixed up if I could. I'll look into Dents and see if they are able to help.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Smithy.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Now that someone has brought up the subject, the glove season is upon us, and I'm still wearing the ill fitting pair I've had for a couple of years. Most places you go nowadays only carry S M and L. I remember going to nice 5th Ave dept stores where you could actually get gloves that fit properly, with like 10 or 12 different sizes. Are these available anywhere any more? Or did they get driven out by the cheapo alternatives?
Every time I see Hercule Poirot neatly folding those elegant grey gloves of his, I want a pair! I'll bet they fit like a . . . errr . . . . a glove!

Dent's has twenty sizes. BTW, glove sizes are supposed to equate to traditional UK shoe sizes. So, if you take a size 9 shoe (UK) you are supposed to take a size 9 glove. It works for me and a few friends I have measured. New kid gloves should be uncomfortably tight, as they stretch a lot with wear. The gloves I found in the charity shop (start of thread) are like Poirot's.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Ah, Newey Bros. I remember visiting their factory. Just down the road from Lightning's factory. Those were the days. Good luck with the glove repair.

Alan

Hi Alan,

They have a brownish-burgundy press-stud which says "Newey Brothers Ltd, Birmingham" on the inside of the stud. Unfortunately my sewing skills only extend to buttons and darning socks, and the linings need repair as well as the outer leather. They are nice gloves and due to the family history of them I'd like to get them fixed up if I could. I'll look into Dents and see if they are able to help.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Smithy.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Ah gloves...

...I had a a gray pair once that were as soft as a whisper, but were lost by someone I loaned them to.

I'm inspired. Maybe I'll go shopping.

 

[slicedbread]

On the subject of gloves, how can I tell (on eBay) if the gloves are "male" or "female"

examples:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181610899&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181613241&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181615499&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181619777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170159585807&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007

Thanks

To be more specific, is there a difference in construction/styling between women's and men's? I'm not too concerned with trivial things such as color...Thank you!

 

[Alan Eardley]

The most frequent differences are that womens' gloves often have more 'feminine' styling details, a smaller size and slimmer fit, are often of inseam construction in a thinner material (if leather), whereas mens' gloves are usually in larger sizes, usually a wider finger fit, are often of 'prickseam' construction and (usually but not always) in a heavier material. With some styles there is little or no difference.

Alan

On the subject of gloves, how can I tell (on eBay) if the gloves are "male" or "female"

examples:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181610899&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181613241&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181615499&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110181619777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170159585807&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007

Thanks

To be more specific, is there a difference in construction/styling between women's and men's? I'm not too concerned with trivial things such as color...Thank you!

 

[Marty M.]

Hmmmm.

Thanks for starting this one, Alan. Do you happen to have any photos of the gloves you've found?

There's an interesting glove project afoot around here somewhere...

I've heard that there's probably more then one glove project somewhere around here.
Marty Mathis

 

[SamMarlowPI]

anyone know where to buy the old shearling lined gloves the bomber crews used to wear in ww2? i looked everywhere and cant find them anywhere

 

[Smithy]

anyone know where to buy the old shearling lined gloves the bomber crews used to wear in ww2? i looked everywhere and cant find them anywhere

Eastman offer a few repro USAAF and US Navy options Sam...

http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastmanleather/topic/topic-9602-1.stm

 

[SamMarlowPI]

Eastman offer a few repro USAAF and US Navy options Sam...

http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastmanleather/topic/topic-9602-1.stm

thanks so much!