German & Austrian Hutmachers

[mayserwegener]

The story: our fellow lounger Randy McCamey @Rmccamey picked up a Stetsonian bowler hat that didn't fit him. He suggested a trade and challenged me to find a bowler that was fitting for his collection. I pride myself a bit for putting him on the track more or less with sending him a Kaller bowler to get a taste for them (we can say it workedand then some - I did not foresee it taking this form). Anyway; challenge accepted and some time passes without anything of note showing up (at a decent price at least). Then this one came along.

Mayser bowler in black. Size 57 with the quit narrow brim at 4,7cm and the crown 13cm or thereabouts. This an oldie and the liner alone is worth the price of admission. At least I think so.

Mayser bowlers don't show up all that often and now we have two in a row (more or less).

Stefan, Super find! Yes, I doubt that will happen again.

 

[steur]

Thank you, Steve. A very satisfying find for sure.

 

[Wangenheim]

Just got a new German pre-war Fedora. It's a black felt hat with an overwelt brim edge. The brim is 6.2 cm. The hat band 5 cm and the crown hight at the front 11 cm. The bow has an interesting center design.

It's unligned and has a 4.5 cm sweatband with a non functional strap. It's directly sewed to the felt (with no damage). The Name of the first and only owner is punched in: K[arl] Maegerlein. I asked the seller about the man (which I will always do from now on). He was born 1904 in middle Frankonia and died early in 1946. He was a Farmer and a Shoemaker. Behind the sweatband a label says: "Form 3469, Qual. [n/a], Farbe schwarz". There's also a label with a "42" on it right at the back behind the swaetband and a hand written price tag of "4,-" Mark obvioulsy with what appears to be the letters "Npr", maybe "Neupreis"?

Although I never liked the overwelt brims, I love the stance of the hat very much: brim not too wide, not too small, very high crown and enough felt to have a really classic curvature. All this considered (sweatband, height, price, birthdate of the owner) I guess this is a (late) 20's hat. What do you think?

Has anybody an idea, which maker the label could be? Because there are no logos etc. I guess it's a middle-priced mall-hat. Still the felt is fine and it fits perfectly.

 

[mayserwegener]

Just got a new German pre-war Fedora. It's a black felt hat with an overwelt brim edge. The brim is 6.2 cm. The hat band 5 cm and the crown hight at the front 11 cm. The bow has an interesting center design.

It's unligned and has a 4.5 cm sweatband with a non functional strap. It's directly sewed to the felt (with no damage). The Name of the first and only owner is punched in: K[arl] Maegerlein. I asked the seller about the man (which I will always do from now on). He was born 1904 in middle Frankonia and died early in 1946. He was a Farmer and a Shoemaker. Behind the sweatband a label says: "Form 3469, Qual. [n/a], Farbe schwarz". There's also a label with a "42" on it right at the back behind the swaetband and a hand written price tag of "4,-" Mark obvioulsy with what appears to be the letters "Npr", maybe "Neupreis"?

Although I never liked the overwelt brims, I love the stance of the hat very much: brim not too wide, not too small, very high crown and enough felt to have a really classic curvature. All this considered (sweatband, height, price, birthdate of the owner) I guess this is a (late) 20's hat. What do you think?

Has anybody an idea, which maker the label could be? Because there are no logos etc. I guess it's a middle-priced mall-hat. Still the felt is fine and it fits perfectly.

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Great find! I think your dating is a good guess. I will have to see if I can find a similar paper label type (it's very generic) but nothing is coming to me at the moment. The yellow "42" stamp type (they have different numbers so possibly quality control or worker related) is very common. I can't say for sure but my feeling is this hat came from one of the large Guben Hat Companies. There are many similar non branded hats posted here and on my website. It probably had a crown tip patch originally but probably wouldn't reveal anything company related. Is it made of Wool (looks like it)? It has a great overall look (form, dimensions, felt, brim work, band/bow, sweatband). Congrats!

 

[Wangenheim]

Yes, the label is somewhat disappointing. Maybe the blank "Qualität" column says more low-price. But I can't verify that, because I only have customer mall prices in Germany of the 30s. But I will try to get some 20s catalogues. In 30s prices it would be lower end. But there's the Great Depression in between and so maybe some more inflation, so I don't know.

But I don't think that it's wool. It was in a very bad shape - meaning literally the shape of the crown was a mess. I shaped it back with hot steam. It reacted like any other felt hat I own. Generally I don't think, that this would work with a wool hat, would it? Or how can I verify that?

But the felt is definitely not as good as you would expect it from a highly priced hat. It's on the rougher side.

With "crown tip patch" you mean some logo inside the crown? Unfortunately, I really can't see anything there, not even glue residua.

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes, the label is somewhat disappointing. Maybe the blank "Qualität" column says more low-price. But I can't verify that, because I only have customer mall prices in Germany of the 30s. But I will try to get some 20s catalogues. In 30s prices it would be lower end. But there's the Great Depression in between and so maybe some more inflation, so I don't know.

But I don't think that it's wool. It was in a very bad shape - meaning literally the shape of the crown was a mess. I shaped it back with hot steam. It reacted like any other felt hat I own. Generally I don't think, that this would work with a wool hat, would it? Or how can I verify that?

But the felt is definitely not as good as you would expect it from a highly priced hat. It's on the rougher side.

With "crown tip patch" you mean some logo inside the crown? Unfortunately, I really can't see anything there, not even glue residua.

I am fairly positive it's a Wool Soft Felt. They tend to have a rougher finish and a lower price point. There are many similar German Wool Soft Felts posted in this thread and on my website. The large factories in Guben massed produced them (you can check Berlin Gubner Hutfabrik / BGH on my website as an example). Wool Soft Felts were usually more pliable in that time period because men shaped the crowns to their liking. Fur Felt Soft Felts were too expensive for most men so they factories that produced Wool Soft and Stiff Felts (most also produced Fur Felt Soft and Stiff Felts) tried to improve the quality. There is a lot about this on my website.

Yes, a patch inside the top of the crown. It's possible it didn't have one. I tend to think it didn't have a liner because I don't see any thread remnants behind the sweatband.

Here are similar Wool Soft and Stiff Felt Hats that I think might be BGH. Matt and I started putting this together back it 2022 (needs to be updated) but the project got sidetracked.

"Germania" No Company Mark
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/412-germania-no-company-mark/

"Bellona" No Company Mark
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/411-bellona-no-company-mark/

"Adler" No Company Mark
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/319-adler-no-company-mark/

"Orion" No Company Mark
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/277-orion-no-company-mark/

WISKO "Rossach Kosmos 1" Need to take photo of Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/256-wilhelm-ispert-köln/

EMS "Gloria" No Company Mark
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/130-ems-gloria/

Hch. Klipper Offenbach a. M. "Extra Quality" Need to Check for Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/291-hch-klipper-comp-offenbach-a-m/

J. A. Seidl München Soft Felt JASM Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-a-seidl-münchen/?do=findComment&comment=2567

J. A. Seidl München Stiff Felt Missing JASM Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-a-seidl-münchen/?do=findComment&comment=1422

J. A. Seidl München "Colonia" JASM Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-a-seidl-münchen/?do=findComment&comment=2877

J. A. Seidl München Stiff Felt No Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-a-seidl-münchen/?do=findComment&comment=2878

J. A. Seidl München Stiff Felt No Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-a-seidl-münchen/?do=findComment&comment=2901

Berlin Gubener Hutfabrik B.G.H. Stiff Felt No Paper Label
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...ubener-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=1783

Berlin Gubener Hutfabrik "Stammhaus Guben" "Aquila Beste deutsche Marke"
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...ubener-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=1903

Here is another one.

"Dogma" "Striegau"
https://germanaustrianhats.invision...ubener-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=3150

 

[Wangenheim]

That's very interesting! So is this wool different to the one that was used later or today? Because I always hear from people, who have more modern wool hats, that they aren't able to shape them, like I do. And I thought, this is because the older hats were mostly felt.

But that makes this shot even better, because it's the most rough hat that I own so far. So this is a firstling to me. And with the pictures that you added I now see the same roughness in these hats.

I tried to spot a difference with a magnifying glass, and I think there is one indeed in the hair-thickness and the lower densitiy of the upper regions of the felt. But as I went through my hats, another one this rough appeared, and that is the beige Hückel Fedora with the small brim and the thin hatband: If this is a real criterion, that's a wool hat too. And I remember we discussed the roughness and the rough look. "Rauh" on the label would then be the euphemism for "wool" ; )

With it came another hat, that is a 5 1/2, which would be a 58, but feels smaller than the Hückel 57 above: a Hückel Aero in beige. Unfortunately it has a mothbite on top and one little hole at the back of the brim.

The hat band is just 2,3cm, brim 5cm, height 10cm.

Can anyone tell me more about this hat?

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[mayserwegener]

That's very interesting! So is this wool different to the one that was used later or today? Because I always hear from people, who have more modern wool hats, that they aren't able to shape them, like I do. And I thought, this is because the older hats were mostly felt.

But that makes this shot even better, because it's the most rough hat that I own so far. So this is a firstling to me. And with the pictures that you added I now see the same roughness in these hats.

I tried to spot a difference with a magnifying glass, and I think there is one indeed in the hair-thickness and the lower densitiy of the upper regions of the felt. But as I went through my hats, another one this rough appeared, and that is the beige Hückel Fedora with the small brim and the thin hatband: If this is a real criterion, that's a wool hat too. And I remember we discussed the roughness and the rough look. "Rauh" on the label would then be the euphemism for "wool" ; )

Most pre WWII European Soft and Stiff Felt Hats were made of Wool. If you look at my website you will see catalogs featuring Wool Soft and Stiff Felts Hats. Here is an interview of Victor Böhm in The American Hatter (mid 1920s) where he mentions the use of Wool in Europe (last paragraph).

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...er-böhm-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=384

Wool can have a very soft handle but these hats were made for heavy use and at a lower price point. Again if you look through my website you will see higher price point Wool and Wool - Fur Felt blends.

J. Hückel´s Söhne / JHS made Fur Felt Hats. They specialized in World famous Velour Soft Felt Hats. The "Rauh" is Fur Felt but it has more of a rough - natural finish. There might be some Guard Hairs included which stick out. The Felt is not evenly cropped. Here is a really nice JHS "Flexible" "Rauh" of mine. This one has a very soft hand.

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...tfabrik-weilheim/?do=findComment&comment=2565

It's possible JHS used Wool or mixed Wool with Fur Felt but I have no record of it. They used Wild Rabbit, Tame Rabbit, Hare (for Velour), Nutria and Beaver. I have a lot info on JHS on my website and in my offline records (need to put online). I have visited Novy Jicin a few times so

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/

Again, super find! I really like these old non brand Wool Soft and Stiff Felts Hats.

 

[mayserwegener]

Stetson "Excellent" "Bloulevard" Made under License by Mayser Ulm, Especially Made for Hut Seidl München (Mayser Ulm's Flagship Store), date stamped 02/57 and 4. März 1958. Superb overall quality and workmanship as expected. Also in Excellent condition. Interesting that there are two date stamps. Mayser started licensing and making Stetson Hats in 1954.

Open Crown

Natural Light

 

[Rmccamey]

Success can be measured in many different ways. One way is to find a "first of its kind " hat. This is a P & C Habig Special Beaver with traditional bowler measurements- 2 inch brim and just under 5 inch crown and 1 inch black ribbon. This bowler takes the term "stiff felt" to heart. It takes considerable effort to get the sides of the crown to move at all! That said, this bowler is a lightweight compared to most other lined bowlers in my collection. This bowler sports a white, or cream, pleated liner and complimentary colored sweat highlighting "Spezial Biber". The felt is very thin and silky smooth and the crown is free of any bumps and bruises.

The paper label lists the size as 6 but, consulting with Steve @mayserwegener , it should have another digit either before or after the 6 to indicate the size in centimeters. Surprisingly there is a handwritten tag under the sweat showing 56. I was hoping the hat would be a size 60, but it fits small on my 57 head, so it is likely a 56, or possibly a 55.

The color of the paper label and other information is what makes this hat even more special. Rather than confuse the issue, I've asked Steve to provide his assessment of this hat.

Other than the disappointed of not being my size, the sweatband is cracked, torn and will have to be replaced to be wearable. Such is the life of some old hats, I suppose., but I'm glad this one will have a few more years of life.

 

[mayserwegener]

Success can be measured in many different ways. One way is to find a "first of its kind " hat. This is a P & C Habig Special Beaver with traditional bowler measurements- 2 inch brim and just under 5 inch crown and 1 inch black ribbon. This bowler takes the term "stiff felt" to heart. It takes considerable effort to get the sides of the crown to move at all! That said, this bowler is a lightweight compared to most other lined bowlers in my collection. This bowler sports a white, or cream, pleated liner and complimentary colored sweat highlighting "Spezial Biber". The felt is very thin and silky smooth and the crown is free of any bumps and bruises.

The paper label lists the size as 6 but, consulting with Steve @mayserwegener , it should have another digit either before or after the 6 to indicate the size in centimeters. Surprisingly there is a handwritten tag under the sweat showing 56. I was hoping the hat would be a size 60, but it fits small on my 57 head, so it is likely a 56, or possibly a 55.

The color of the paper label and other information is what makes this hat even more special. Rather than confuse the issue, I've asked Steve to provide his assessment of this hat.

Other than the disappointed of not being my size, the sweatband is cracked, torn and will have to be replaced to be wearable. Such is the life of some old hats, I suppose., but I'm glad this one will have a few more years of life.

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Randy, It's a great find indeed! I haven't seen one of these P. & C. Habig Wien Berlin "Spezial Biber / Beaver" "Echt Biber / Real Beaver" Stiff Felts in detail before. This would be at the highest price point because of the Biber / Beaver Felt and possibly made specially for the P. & C. Habig Berlin store at Friedrichstrasse 82 which didn't survive WWII. P. & C. Habig Wien were known for lighter weight Stiff Felts.

I have never seen this color Paper Label (probably due to it being a Biber / Beaver Felt) before so a first. The Liner Crest has the K. K. (Imperial - Royal) Hof-Hut Fabrikant. so could be from WWI era or it was still used for a time period post WWI. This one of mine has a handwritten "5" on a similar Paper Label format and from what I can remember the size was ~ 55cm. It also has a K. K. on the Crest so probably from about the same time.

Thank you for posting the photos and making the detailed analysis possible.

 

[Rmccamey]

Thanks a million for your insights on the hat, Steve.

Randy, It's a great find indeed! I haven't seen one of these P. & C. Habig Wien Berlin "Spezial Biber / Beaver" "Echt Biber / Real Beaver" Stiff Felts in detail before. This would be at the highest price point because of the Biber / Beaver Felt and possibly made specially for the P. & C. Habig Berlin store at Friedrichstrasse 82 which didn't survive WWII. P. & C. Habig Wien were known for lighter weight Stiff Felts.

I have never seen this color Paper Label (probably due to it being a Biber / Beaver Felt) before so a first. The Liner Crest has the K. K. (Imperial - Royal) Hof-Hut Fabrikant. so could be from WWI era or it was still used for a time period post WWI. This one of mine has a handwritten "5" on a similar Paper Label format and from what I can remember the size was ~ 55cm. It also has a K. K. on the Crest so probably from about the same time.

Thank you for posting the photos and making the detailed analysis possible.

 

[Steve1857]

Success can be measured in many different ways. One way is to find a "first of its kind " hat. This is a P & C Habig Special Beaver with traditional bowler measurements- 2 inch brim and just under 5 inch crown and 1 inch black ribbon. This bowler takes the term "stiff felt" to heart. It takes considerable effort to get the sides of the crown to move at all! That said, this bowler is a lightweight compared to most other lined bowlers in my collection. This bowler sports a white, or cream, pleated liner and complimentary colored sweat highlighting "Spezial Biber". The felt is very thin and silky smooth and the crown is free of any bumps and bruises.

The paper label lists the size as 6 but, consulting with Steve @mayserwegener , it should have another digit either before or after the 6 to indicate the size in centimeters. Surprisingly there is a handwritten tag under the sweat showing 56. I was hoping the hat would be a size 60, but it fits small on my 57 head, so it is likely a 56, or possibly a 55.

The color of the paper label and other information is what makes this hat even more special. Rather than confuse the issue, I've asked Steve to provide his assessment of this hat.

Other than the disappointed of not being my size, the sweatband is cracked, torn and will have to be replaced to be wearable. Such is the life of some old hats, I suppose., but I'm glad this one will have a few more years of life.

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Despite its size, that is a great find, Randy. Very unique indeed.

 

[Rmccamey]

Much appreciated!

Despite its size, that is a great find, Randy. Very unique indeed.

 

[steur]

Success can be measured in many different ways. One way is to find a "first of its kind " hat. This is a P & C Habig Special Beaver with traditional bowler measurements- 2 inch brim and just under 5 inch crown and 1 inch black ribbon. This bowler takes the term "stiff felt" to heart. It takes considerable effort to get the sides of the crown to move at all! That said, this bowler is a lightweight compared to most other lined bowlers in my collection. This bowler sports a white, or cream, pleated liner and complimentary colored sweat highlighting "Spezial Biber". The felt is very thin and silky smooth and the crown is free of any bumps and bruises.

The paper label lists the size as 6 but, consulting with Steve @mayserwegener , it should have another digit either before or after the 6 to indicate the size in centimeters. Surprisingly there is a handwritten tag under the sweat showing 56. I was hoping the hat would be a size 60, but it fits small on my 57 head, so it is likely a 56, or possibly a 55.

The color of the paper label and other information is what makes this hat even more special. Rather than confuse the issue, I've asked Steve to provide his assessment of this hat.

Other than the disappointed of not being my size, the sweatband is cracked, torn and will have to be replaced to be wearable. Such is the life of some old hats, I suppose., but I'm glad this one will have a few more years of life.

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Greta find, Randy. Too bad about the size and the condition of the sweat. From what I've seen from Habig they didn't account for anything larger than a size 59 with their labels, so all of them had a 5 printed or stamped on them, with the number of the appropriate size usually written next to it. Here it seems they just used the second number and lost the 5 alltogether.

 

[steur]

This one worked out well. I took a chance buying this one, not knowing the size. There were several member here hoping it would be theirs, but it is my size in fact.
Hückel Prima velour. Size 56 with the overwelt brim at 5,5cm (-ish) and the crown at 11cm at the center dent. Sellers' pics had it look awkward because she tried forcing the brim down like a fedora. It's not that kind of hat. A pre-war model the Germans and Austrians would likely call a "mode-hut". The felt is everything you'd expect from a pre-war Hückel. The A V on the label has me puzzled a bit. I'm sure I could find it on Steve's site, but I haven't looked yet. Anyway, here it is.

 

[Wangenheim]

Very interesting... so this is kind of a Velour-Homburger? : )

 

[steur]

Very interesting... so this is kind of a Velour-Homburger? : )

Not really a homburg or lords hat, but a very common style for the time with an upturned overwelt brim.

 

[Wangenheim]

I really can't see the overwelt. Could you please make a close up?

 

[marting81]

Berlin-Guben hat factory

public company

GUBEN


The most important hat factory, not only in Guben and the province of Brandenburg, but also in Germany and probably all of Europe, is the Berlin-Gubener Hutfabrik Aktiengesellschaft vorm. A. Cohn in Guben.


Today's large factory began in a Gubener branch established in 1876 by Apelius Cohn's Hut-Fourniture business, which had been founded in Berlin some time earlier.


At the head of this branch was his brother-in-law, Hermann Lewin.


A short time later, he started producing wool felt products, especially wool stumps.

At first it was more of a handicraft business employing 12 to 20 workers.

But after just a few years, the production of hats was taken up and particularly cultivated.

As a result, the Apelius Cohn company, of which Hermann Lewin had meanwhile become a co-owner, soon also enjoyed a good reputation as a hat factory in Germany, particularly in the production of cheroots for women's hats.

Due to the constantly growing scope of business, the owners decided to found a stock corporation and so with effect from January 1, 1888, the company went to the new stock corporation Berlin-Gubener Hutfabrik Aktiengesellschaft vorm. A. Cohn, with a share capital of one million marks under the direction of the previous owners.

On May 7, 1906, the company's founder, Apelius Cohn, was snatched away by death.

The Berlin office was confiscated and the entire line was relocated to Guben.

January 1, 1907 marked a new milestone in the development of the company.

On this day, the hat factory von Lißner, which had existed since November 1889, was connected to the company and the share capital, which had meanwhile increased to 1,250,000 marks, was increased to 3 million marks.

Since this factory was also one of the largest and most successful companies in the industry, the merger of the two factories created the basis on which the current significance of the plant rests.

On July 1, 1907, the Haarhut factory, which had previously been operated separately by the two factories, was then merged into a special operation under the Berlin-Gubener Haarhutfabrik G.m.b. H. merged.

Finally, in the early years of 1909 and 1910, semi-finished products were manufactured in the early Wülfing hat factory in Guben, which was purchased in 1908.

However, since these articles fell out of fashion, the founding of the Union Fez-Fabrik G. m. b. H. the factory was given a new purpose for the production of Turkish feze.

The World War initially hampered the further development of the company, but as early as 1918 there was further expansion through participation in the machine factory and iron foundry Wilhelm Quade G. m. b. H., a long-established special machine factory with a good reputation, to secure the supply of hat machines.

While the hair hat factory was busy even during the war, at the end of the war there was initially a shortage of raw materials for wool hat production. However, this was overcome relatively soon, so that the company was able to regain its leading position on the world market in an extremely short time.

On July 22, 1920, the company suffered a very painful loss with the death of its co-founder and managing director Hermann Lewin.

The extraordinary personality of the deceased was met with admiration and respect far beyond the scope of his professional activity.

The management now consists of Dr. Alexander Lewin and Berthold Lissner.

Due to the increase in the need for liquid funds caused by the devaluation of the mark, the share capital of 3 million marks was increased to 6 million marks in January 1920 and in the course of 1921 to 12 million marks.

Dividends paid out in the last 3 years were 18 percent, 20 percent and 10 percent bonus, 30 percent and 16%/a percent bonus.

Of the many donations for social purposes, it should only be mentioned that in the last financial year alone a workers' support fund with one million marks and an employee pension and welfare fund with 500,000 marks were founded.

Around 3,000 workers and employees are currently employed.

Based on the company's development so far, it can be hoped that the company will continue to be able to cope with foreign competition and will contribute to strengthening and increasing the respect and recognition for German work abroad.