German & Austrian Hutmachers

[Steve1857]

Thank you, Steve, for "getting on board".
You're right, of course:
Giessen (or rather Gießen) is a town in central Hessen - about 60 km west of Lauterbach, the location of Wegener!
But I have to admit that this is more guesswork than reading what I marked. So no guarantee that it is true.
According to the assumption that it is a product from one of the no name manufacturers in Brandenburg/Saxony/etc.
- the later East Germany - I also tried several times to read "Guben" instead of "Giessen": without success!
Maybe somebody else has a brilliant idea what it says?

Furthermore I have the impression that this is not the stamp/brand of the manufacturer.
Normally it would not have the "official" eagle on it, I would think.
The stamp of the manufacturer might have been on the crown patch!?
It's also hard to imagine that this is the stamp of the seller/hat shop - behind the sweatband?

I rather thought (even before taking a closer look) that it is some kind of inspection stamp or something similar.
Maybe something like "customs office Giessen"...!? But even that is only a guess.

But in any case we agree that the hat was made before 1945.
And in the area, which was then - whenever exactly - "Germany".
Otherwise the "German workmanship" doesn't make sense...

I'm curious if we or anyone else will solve the mystery.
I have now sent the stamp to friends - either it gives some information,
or Steve has a brilliant idea with the dating around 1930 and a manufacturer.
We'll see... Or maybe not.

And I'm happy to be able to share the mystery with you.

Who doesn't love a mystery, Matt [emoji4].

I don't believe we'll ever find out the real maker of this hat, but it won't stop us surmising.

No matter the maker, though, it is truly a great pre war hat.

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[mayserwegener]

Here is the closeup, Steve: difficult to focus everything!

For comparison: this is what I suspect/guess!

Let's start the guessing game, guys!

Matt, Thanks! My guess is the stamp was not placed by the manufacturer. I have Wool hats with similar construction but they don't have any company marks. Including ones with paper labels. My guess is that it came from one of the major hat companies in the East that produced Wool hats. I still think it's from the 1930s.

 

[mayserwegener]

Okay, Matt, I'll start with the easy one: Giessen is a well known town in central Germany, so not East Germany.

If it's before the war or during, as it surely is, there was no East Germany, nor an Eastern Europe as in our modern perspective of East and West.
If it was made outside of Germany, I don't believe it would say Deutsche Werkarbeit, unless it was made in Austria, Poland, or Czechoslovakia after the German invasion.
So, imo, the evidence points toward a possible German hat maker, or a Czech, Austrian, or Polish one. But which one? Probably a long lost forgotten one.

Just my two pfennigs worth [emoji145]

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It was made in Germany. I am positive of that.

 

[mayserwegener]

Oh my, you are killin' me, man! You come up with some of the most interesting and historical hats. Thanks for sharing. This Huckel is wonderful.

Randy, Thanks!

 

[mayserwegener]

Above all, I am always fascinated by the magnificent condition of the hats you are presenting to us here, Steve!

Thanks. I think this hat is after German occupation (1938) of Czechoslovakia. That is the probably the reason for the issuing of D.R.M.G. "Deutsches Reichs- Gebrauchsmuster". Also the sweatband (also the stitched seam) is of a lesser quality possibly due to WWII situation. JHS switched to war production in 1942 (so my guess 1938-42).

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Thanks. I think this hat is after German occupation (1938) of Czechoslovakia. That is the probably the reason for the issuing of D.R.M.G. "Deutsches Reichs- Gebrauchsmuster". Also the sweatband (also the stitched seam) is of a lesser quality possibly due to WWII situation. JHS switched to war production in 1942 (so my guess 1938-42).

That sounds very convincing to me, Steve!

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Matt, Thanks! My guess is the stamp was not placed by the manufacturer. I have Wool hats with similar construction but they don't have any company marks. Including ones with paper labels. My guess is that it came from one of the major hat companies in the East that produced Wool hats. I still think it's from the 1930s.

Thanks, Steve! That is what I thought: The stamp has nothing to do with the manufacturer.
But I take it from your "silence" that you have never seen such a "mark" either!?
What do you think it is? Any idea?

 

[mayserwegener]

Matt, I couldn't find a similar mark for Giessen online. It might be an organization or something related. I will see if I can find the "Panonia" mark. As I mentioned I have similar (general construction) German Wool Soft Felt Hats of similar construction + time period and no company mark. The problem is the mark could have come from a distributor so that adds another layer. The hats are non brand name hats with fancy names that were sold most likely at a lower price point.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks, Steve! That is what I thought: The stamp has nothing to do with the manufacturer.
But I take it from your "silence" that you have never seen such a "mark" either!?
What do you think it is? Any idea?

Here are some marks from Deutsche Hutmacher-Zeitung December 15, 1936 edition. This is where I found the Franz Richter & Söhne, Dresden "Tell" mark (see 2nd page). You can see some of the distributors and associated marks. Also distributors acquired old marks from closed hat companies. For example Wilhelm Ispert Köln (distributor) acquired the Möckel mark (see 1st page). Möckel went out of business in 1931. You might have to click on the photos to enlarge.

 

[steur]

Wotan homburg in black. Size 57 with the brim at 6cm and the crown 10,5cm at the center dent. This one has me stumped about its age. As Norse and Germanic mythology was embraced by the nazis, it was at the very least frowned upon in the post-war years. So I think a manufacturer wouldn't choose this as a brand name like Wotan (the Germanic equivalent of Odin) until at least the mid to late sixties. It looks earlier than that though (liner is still stitched in for example). Looking at the liner logo I think Wegener may be the manufacturer. A hat called Wotan: had to have it.

 

[Steve1857]

Wotan homburg in black. Size 57 with the brim at 6cm and the crown 10,5cm at the center dent. This one has me stumped about its age. As Norse and Germanic mythology was embraced by the nazis, it was at the very least frowned upon in the post-war years. So I think a manufacturer wouldn't choose this as a brand name like Wotan (the Germanic equivalent of Odin) until at least the mid to late sixties. It looks earlier than that though (liner is still stitched in for example). Looking at the liner logo I think Wegener may be the manufacturer. A hat called Wotan: had to have it.

Super W in Wotan on the sweat, Stefan. Does it say, arkei or arkel just under Wotan. P.S. I'm a huge Wagner fan [emoji4]

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[steur]

Super W in Wotan on the sweat, Stefan. Does it say, arkei or arkel just under Wotan. P.S. I'm a huge Wagner fan [emoji4]

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Thank you, Steve. The W in Wotan doubles as an M for the word Marke, so the official name is Wotan Marke. Forgot to post the liner here too, so here it is:

 

[Steve1857]

Thank you, Steve. The W in Wotan doubles as an M for the word Marke, so the official name is Wotan Marke. Forgot to post the liner here too, so here it is:

View attachment 205365

Thanks, Stefan. I missed the double lettering. Nice touch. Even more impressive.

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[mayserwegener]

Wotan homburg in black. Size 57 with the brim at 6cm and the crown 10,5cm at the center dent. This one has me stumped about its age. As Norse and Germanic mythology was embraced by the nazis, it was at the very least frowned upon in the post-war years. So I think a manufacturer wouldn't choose this as a brand name like Wotan (the Germanic equivalent of Odin) until at least the mid to late sixties. It looks earlier than that though (liner is still stitched in for example). Looking at the liner logo I think Wegener may be the manufacturer. A hat called Wotan: had to have it.

Stefan, Great find! I think it was made by Mayser Milz. This is based on the paper label. They also used the "Imprägnol/Imprägniert" label.

 

[steur]

Stefan, Great find! I think it was made by Mayser Milz. This is based on the paper label. They also used the "Imprägnol/Imprägniert" label.

Thanks, Steve. Mayser Milz is fine by me! I think more manufacturers used the "Imprägnol/Imprägniert" label though. I have this Windsor with a different anufacturing label that also has one:

 

[steur]

This one I forgot to post before. Maybe I should have brought this, but it wasn't my size. Tooks some pics of it though. I think this is a Hückel made in their Polish plant, as the name Skoczów is a Polish place name. Never seen one before, but it wasn't cheap enough to bring it just for fun. Not an antelope finish despite the name. A very unusual feature is the strip of grosgrain between the sweat and the felt on the inside and the leather sweatband bow!

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks, Steve. Mayser Milz is fine by me! I think more manufacturers used the "Imprägnol/Imprägniert" label though. I have this Windsor with a different anufacturing label that also has one:
View attachment 205834 View attachment 205835 View attachment 205836 View attachment 205837

Stefan, I have never been able to verify the Windsor mark (could be a distributor) but it could have also been made by Mayser Milz. The numbers on the paper label are similar to what Mayser used.

 

[mayserwegener]

This one I forgot to post before. Maybe I should have brought this, but it wasn't my size. Tooks some pics of it though. I think this is a Hückel made in their Polish plant, as the name Skoczów is a Polish place name. Never seen one before, but it wasn't cheap enough to bring it just for fun. Not an antelope finish despite the name. A very unusual feature is the strip of grosgrain between the sweat and the felt on the inside and the leather sweatband bow!

View attachment 205839 View attachment 205840 View attachment 205841 View attachment 205842 View attachment 205843

Stefan, Very interesting! I have seen some on Polish auction / sales site. My guess is that it was after WWII because it doesn't have Hückel (also no JHS in 1799 mark). I can't remember what the Skoczów plant (PolkaP today) did for JHS but I not sure they made finished hats.

PolkaP updated their website. Looks like they did make hats up to WWII but I still think (they would have used JHS prior) this hat is post WWII.

Here is a later one with "S" in the place of "JHS".

https://allegro.pl/oferta/skoczow-j...6cab2e664258d9124ef0862320b2d7366fdd6604cf017

 

[Rmccamey]

Very nice hat, sir.

Thanks, Steve. Mayser Milz is fine by me! I think more manufacturers used the "Imprägnol/Imprägniert" label though. I have this Windsor with a different anufacturing label that also has one:
View attachment 205834 View attachment 205835 View attachment 205836 View attachment 205837

 

[steur]

Stefan, Very interesting! I have seen some on Polish auction / sales site. My guess is that it was after WWII because it doesn't have Hückel (also no JHS in 1799 mark). I can't remember what the Skoczów plant (PolkaP today) did for JHS but I not sure they made finished hats.

PolkaP updated their website. Looks like they did make hats up to WWII but I still think (they would have used JHS prior) this hat is post WWII.

Here is a later one with "S" in the place of "JHS".

https://allegro.pl/oferta/skoczow-j...6cab2e664258d9124ef0862320b2d7366fdd6604cf017

I don't think it was a pre-war hat either. The finishing and felt wasn't good enough for that. Still quite interesting.

Very nice hat, sir.

Thanks, Randy.