German & Austrian Hutmachers

[mayserwegener]

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 (Flash)

Click on Photos to Expand

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1,2 Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1,2 Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1,2

I have three Hückel Weilheim Chevreau and two Hückel Weilheim Chamois in different shades of gray. They are all from the late 1950s very early 1960s. I also have a Hückel Weilheim Chevreau in a fantastic shade of green.

 

[Chepstow]

Nice finds, Manfred. Congrats. Never seen a felted band before with different felt colours.

Thanks Stefan. Wegener did it often. But never so nice in my opinion.


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[Chepstow]

Really nice Hückel collection, Steve.
Looks great in all the different colors.


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[mayserwegener]

Really nice Hückel collection, Steve.
Looks great in all the different colors.


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Manfred, Thanks!

 

[steur]

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 (Sun Light)

Click on Photos to Expand

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 vs. Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 (Sun Light)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 (Sun Light)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Sun Light)

It's really hard to see any difference between the Chamois and Chevreau finishes. I would say the Chamois finish has slightly more fuzz.

Steve, thanks for posting these. Not much between them to my eye. Would be interesting to be able to find a source that describes what the difference in process was.

 

[steur]

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 (Flash)

Click on Photos to Expand

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1 vs Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 2 (Flash)

Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1,2 Hückel Weilheim Chamois 1,2 Hückel Weilheim Chevreau 1,2

I have three Hückel Weilheim Chevreau and two Hückel Weilheim Chamois in different shades of gray. They are all from the late 1950s very early 1960s. I also have a Hückel Weilheim Chevreau in a fantastic shade of green.

Fantastic to see these side by side, Steve. If you seen them individually they almost appear to be the same, but this brings out how different they are. Impossible to choose between them of course. I like the darker ones with the contrasting ribbons best. Thanks for this!

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve, thanks for posting these. Not much between them to my eye. Would be interesting to be able to find a source that describes what the difference in process was.

Stefan, The only one that stood out was Hückel Weilheim Chamois 2 which had more fuzz. It has a great hand too. I have a description on how such finishes are made but it's generic. I will post it later.

 

[mayserwegener]

Fantastic to see these side by side, Steve. If you seen them individually they almost appear to be the same, but this brings out how different they are. Impossible to choose between them of course. I like the darker ones with the contrasting ribbons best. Thanks for this!

Stefan, Thank you! Yes you can see the difference when they are lined up. They are really great hats to wear and really well made too.

 

[M Hatman]

Here is an awsome color ( DARK grey-green or should I say DARK green-grey, depends on the light and what is around it), one of those colors that they seem only able to make "over there". It is very much a Playboy clone (now anyway after I re-creased it).Ok, this is probebly Czechoslovakian, but it is probebly for the European market. Not at all sure of the date (80's?)...... A little over 5 inch crown, 2 1/2 inch brim, felt has a nice feel. Came with one of those factory press creases I just cannot stand therefor as stated above I re-creased it. So, gentlemen, exactly what do I have (besides a hat that will definitely get head time)?
M
Oh, yes.....I actually like the guinea fowl feathers

 

[steur]

Here is an awsome color ( DARK grey-green or should I say DARK green-grey, depends on the light and what is around it), one of those colors that they seem only able to make "over there". It is very much a Playboy clone (now anyway after I re-creased it).Ok, this is probebly Czechoslovakian, but it is probebly for the European market. Not at all sure of the date (80's?)...... A little over 5 inch crown, 2 1/2 inch brim, felt has a nice feel. Came with one of those factory press creases I just cannot stand therefor as stated above I re-creased it. So, gentlemen, exactly what do I have (besides a hat that will definitely get head time)?
M
Oh, yes.....I actually like the guinea fowl feathers
View attachment 127646 View attachment 127647 View attachment 127648 View attachment 127649 View attachment 127650 View attachment 127651

From the looks of it you have a Tonak made Hückel. Steve can tell you interesting stories about the brand (or rather brands in the post-war years). Tonak held on to the Hückel brand (well, they used to BE Hückel) and produced hats both under that name and under the Tonak brand. This is a later one alright.

 

[mayserwegener]

Stefan,

Yes this hat looks like a later Tonak. I would need to see the paper label. I believe Tonak has the Hückel trademark for most countries. I don't think Tonak has it for Germany. I can't remember the deal with Selco and the Hückel trademark for America. Selco sells Tonak Hats under the Selentino trademark in America and sometimes Hückel. I have to go back and check the latest status (assuming it's available).

Prior to WWII Johann Hückel´s Söhne (JHS) had 3 factories. The main factory was in Nový Jičín, Czechoslovakia (Neutitschein, Austria up to WWI). They also had a factory in Skoczów, Poland and a factory in Ratibor, Silesia, Germany. (Both factories were post WWI) The Ratibor factory was created so JHS could sell into the German and Austrian markets post WWI. The Ratibor factory did not survive WWI. Some of the expelled Ratibor workers were involved in starting Hückel Weilheim, Bavaria (West Germany) Hat Factory. The Skoczów, Poland factory was nationalized as PolkaP (still in business today). The main JHS factory in Nový Jičín, Czechoslovakia was nationalized as Tonak Factory 1 (still in business today).

Tonak mostly used the Tonak name and the JHS crest post WWII (see logo below0. There are some early Hückel brand Tonak Hats but I think Hückel Weilheim stopped them from using it in Germany or they just stayed out that market same with Austria. I am not sure about the other European countries. Their main focus was domestic and Eastern Europe and America. In the late 1940s into the early 1950s Tonak used "Tonak Plant Hückel" and "Tonak formerly Hückel" for the American market.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/124-tonak-formerly-hückel-plant-hückel/?hl=tonak

Sometime around the mid 1950s Tonak gets the Hückel trademark for America.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page-3#entry329

I believe around the mid 1950s Hückel Weilheim starting exporting to America under the "Fritz Hückel Hutmacher". This was due to Tonak having the Hückel trademark for America. I am not sure how long Hückel Weilheim exported to America but my guess is the early 1960s.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page-7#entry850

I am not sure exactly when Selco gets the trademark or the license for Hückel for the American market but my guess is the 1960s or 1970s. I would have to go back and do some research. The Hückel trademark is now used for the Orthodox Jewish market in America (and elsewhere).

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/#entry162

Hückel Weilheim closed in 1975 so Tonak sold some Hückel brand hats into the German market. I am not sure who has the Hückel trademark for Germany. I think I had some information but I can't find it now. I will have to check again.

Also there was this failed attempt in Vienna, Austria right after WWII ended.

"The nephew of Fritz Hückel, Hugo Augustin Hückel (1899-1947) who was a sponsor of the German rocket technical designer Johannes Winkler tried in 1946 in Vienna, together with the hat factory A. Sindermann and P. and C. Habig as a Hückel und Co. firmierend to get going a hat production again."

I stumble upon this when I was trying to find out the source of this unique Hückel Wein made especially for Carl Kellner Hamburg. It doesn't look like anything from Hückel Weilheim or Tonak. It's possible it's an early Hückel Weilheim. I was thinking at the time (2016) could be from the failed Vienna attempt.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hückel´s-söhne-hückel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page-11#entry1629

Here is the current Tonak logo. They still use the JHS crest. They just replaced Hückel with Tonak and kept the JHS initials in the middle of the crest. This has been the case going back to the late 1940s.

Sorry for this long winded posted but it helped to jog my memory . I forgot somethings (or never knew) so need to do some more research. I probably should contact Selco to see when they started using the Hückel logo in America and the current situation. I have some detailed information on JHS (pre WWII) and Hückel Weilheim on my website.

 

[mayserwegener]

Here is an awsome color ( DARK grey-green or should I say DARK green-grey, depends on the light and what is around it), one of those colors that they seem only able to make "over there". It is very much a Playboy clone (now anyway after I re-creased it).Ok, this is probebly Czechoslovakian, but it is probebly for the European market. Not at all sure of the date (80's?)...... A little over 5 inch crown, 2 1/2 inch brim, felt has a nice feel. Came with one of those factory press creases I just cannot stand therefor as stated above I re-creased it. So, gentlemen, exactly what do I have (besides a hat that will definitely get head time)?
M
Oh, yes.....I actually like the guinea fowl feathers
View attachment 127646 View attachment 127647 View attachment 127648 View attachment 127649 View attachment 127650 View attachment 127651

Can you please post a better photo of the paper label? As I mentioned this is a later Tonak Hückel. I am not sure if Breiter München sourced directly from Tonak or from a wholesaler like F.W. Schneider Köln who sourced their "Stanton" trademark hats (the same time period) from Tonak. Breiter München is still in business and still a major hat retailer (they also make ladies hats). I have many vintage hats sold by Breiter München also some with their brand (probably sourced).

https://www.hutbreiter.de/fachgeschaefte

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/81-breiter/?hl=breiter

 

[M Hatman]

Can you please post a better photo of the paper label? As I mentioned this is a later Tonak Hückel. I am not sure if Breiter München sourced directly from Tonak or from a wholesaler like F.W. Schneider Köln who sourced their "Stanton" trademark hats (the same time period) from Tonak. Breiter München is still in business and still a major hat retailer (they also make ladies hats). I have many vintage hats sold by Breiter München also some with their brand (probably sourced).

https://www.hutbreiter.de/fachgeschaefte

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/81-breiter/?hl=breiter

I cannot get a better picture of the paper label, it expands fine on my tablet, so It has Huckle Hermes 52 60 and Artikel-Bez
Sweat has Feinster Haarfilz next to the logo on one side.
Retailer appears to be A. Breiler Muncher Hathouse ( in German) and an address? 1863
Everything is in German? So do not think American Market......
I assume this is from the 80's 90's maybe even newer?
M

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes I should have looked closer. My guess is that Breiter sourced it directly from Tonak. I think you are correct on the dating.

 

[M Hatman]

Yes I should have looked closer. My guess is that Breiter sourced it directly from Tonak. I think you are correct on the dating.

So does this mean it was originally sold in Germany as i Suspect?
Also what does Artikel-Bez mean?
Thanks for all your info....,,,you guys are great!
M

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes it was sold by Breiter München, Bavaria, Germany.

Artikel-Bez = Item Description

 

[mayserwegener]

The following is a translated footnote from "Chapeau, Das Westalgäu behütet die Welt, Die Geschichte der Hutprodukrion in Lindenberg und Umgebung, 2015" (This is a great book that I purchased at the Deutsches Hut Museum Lindenberg). The footnote contains some info on Guben's pre WWII major hat companies C.W. Wilke and Berlin - Gubener Hutfabrik, post WWII VEB Vereinigte HutWerke Guben, and post unification Gubener Hüte GmbH.

"In Guben (city law since 1235, known as cloth-maker town) developed the hat maker Carl Gottlob Wilke 1822 waterproof wool felt hat. His sons - especially Friedrich Wilke - made from the hat maker's workshop the largest Gubener hat factory, the C G. Wilke hair and wool felt hat factory Guben. In addition came as another large business, in addition to several smaller hat factories, the Berlin-Gubener hat factory, founded by Apelius Cohn and Hermann Lewin (Berlin 1859, Guben 1876), which employed in 1922 alone 3000 workers and employees. In 1927, the year of crisis in Westallgäu's straw hat industry, Guben had a total of 7,460 people working in the felt hat industry. In the same year, around 10 million hats were produced, of which around 30 percent were for export. For comparison: In 1925, the city of Lindenberg had a total of 5,168 inhabitants, and in 1927 it was probably not much more. In March 1946, the Berlin-Gubener Hutfabrik was dismantled as reparations to the Soviet Union; 1952 developed from the C. G. Wilke hat factory in conjunction with the other Gubener hat factories, the national VEB Vereinigte Hut-Werke Guben with about 1,200 employees; In 1989, 1.2 million stumps and 800,000 felt hats were produced there.

After the turnaround, the state-owned enterprise was privatized in 1990 by the Treuhandanstalt and transformed into the Gubener Hüte GmbH. The number of employees sank to 600; In 1992 there were still 70, the end of 1999 with 10 employees, the operation was closed. In summer 2006, a hat and technology museum was opened in a building of the old hat factory C. G. Wilke."

"Chapeau, Das Westalgau behütet die Welt, Die Geschichte der Hutprodukrion in Lindenberg und Umgebung, 2015"

 

[mayserwegener]

C. G. Wilke "Helios", 58cm, Wool, 186 grams, possibly late 1920s to 1930s. This Wool Stiff Felt is in near mint condition so a great find. The liner really shines especially at the center so that might be the reason for calling it "Helios". I didn't get a good photo of the label because I didn't want to break the super fine threads that hold the sweatband together. The sweatband has a reed on the outer edge which is fairly common with old German and Austrian Stiff Felts.

 

[Trenchfriend]

My Gubener Fedora from GDR-time is a "Helios", too.

 

[mayserwegener]

Interesting! If you haven't please post photos.