French Hats and makers.

[nickwellings]

Here's a Mossant I picked up in Paris for €1...I think you can see why it was €1!

I can try and rip the stitching and sweat remnants with scalpel and seam ripper? Not tried before.

Also picked up a gorgeous Gélot (no leather band, sorry Mr Deckard!) and a "President"(??) made in Brussels...uh...as well as 5 other hats, none French, so shan't enumerate here!

 

[steur]

Here's a Mossant I picked up in Paris for €1...I think you can see why it was €1!

I can try and rip the stitching and sweat remnants with scalpel and seam ripper? Not tried before.

Also picked up a gorgeous Gélot (no leather band, sorry Mr Deckard!) and a "President"(??) made in Brussels...uh...as well as 5 other hats, none French, so shan't enumerate here!

View attachment 75522 View attachment 75523 View attachment 75524

That hat is going to need a lot of love. And a new sweatband. You should be able to take out the stitching of the sweatband with a seam ripper easily. The best way to do that is from the outside: the stitching is visible just above the brim break under the ribbon.

 

[nickwellings]

Thanks! I removed the old leather. Without wishing to derail the thread too much, would you suggest removing all the rigid remnants?
I have a smaller inner grey band left, and where the hat turns into a brim, a raised kind of hard tiny tube all the way around circumference of the hat.

I've never looked into how a sweat band is secured in fact! And I am ok with a sewing needle. I'd just need to source a band.

Server not currently letting me post a pic, sadly.

 

[steur]

Thanks! I removed the old leather. Without wishing to derail the thread too much, would you suggest removing all the rigid remnants?
I have a smaller inner grey band left, and where the hat turns into a brim, a raised kind of hard tiny tube all the way around circumference of the hat.

I've never looked into how a sweat band is secured in fact! And I am ok with a sewing needle. I'd just need to source a band.

Server not currently letting me post a pic, sadly.

Yes, take it all out. The tube you are now left with inside the hat is the reed. It seems the leather has come away from the reed which is stitched to the leather with reeding tape (this happens with wear and age). The whole sweatband is stitched to the felt with stitches in between the leather and the reed. If you buy a replacement sweatband it comes complete with new reed (look on Etsy for sweatbands).

 

[nickwellings]

Great, thank you for your help. I began to read posts on here about replacing bands. Will have to see what I can do...

 

[moehawk]

This one is a bit of a mystery. It was listed on Etsy from a seller in Cognac, France who got it at a flea market. The vendor told her it was from someone in her family, bought in the 40's or 50's. It was sold by Maximes, apparently a retailer.
I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived Monday the 5th after being shipped on the 1st. I've had hats shipped to me within CA that took longer
I looked for clues as to who made it, but there were no tags or identifying stickers or anything convenient like that. The tip patch was pretty faded when I got it and faded a little more in the naptha bath, so I was unable to make out much beyond the Maximes logo.
What made me like it so much was actually the ribbon. The contrast against the charcoal felt just did it for me. Here's some pics.

It came to me in kind of a telescope, too porky for my liking in a felt, so a reshaping was in order. It had a prominent ghost line from the old crease that required some fine sanding, steaming and brushing to remove. The felt was a bit resistant to dry manipulation, but molded like play-doh with steam.
The open crown is 5", the brim 2 1/2". 97g. 3/4" mid ribbon. The sweatband is quite interesting. 1 1/4" wide, and looks reeded at first inspection. As I was gently looking for tags, a small section of stitching gave and I could see that what looked like a reed sheath from the front was not. I got a pic from the reverse before sticking it back in place with double-sided tape. Don't think I've seen one like this before.

Here's the insides:

The "vrai feutre" or real felt (true felt is Google's actual translation) makes me wonder what kind of ersatz feutre was being foisted on the French people at this time...it is very real felt, real nice and real soft, but with some body. Thin, light and dense, feels like it may even have a bit of beaver in it.
Here's a head shot.

All in all, a nice piece of French hatmaking history. I'm going with the fifties on this one, as always if anyone has input I'd love to know what you all think.



Powered by happy thoughts

 

[KarlCrow]

This one is a bit of a mystery. It was listed on Etsy from a seller in Cognac, France who got it at a flea market. The vendor told her it was from someone in her family, bought in the 40's or 50's. It was sold by Maximes, apparently a retailer.
I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived Monday the 5th after being shipped on the 1st. I've had hats shipped to me within CA that took longer
I looked for clues as to who made it, but there were no tags or identifying stickers or anything convenient like that. The tip patch was pretty faded when I got it and faded a little more in the naptha bath, so I was unable to make out much beyond the Maximes logo.
What made me like it so much was actually the ribbon. The contrast against the charcoal felt just did it for me. Here's some pics.

It came to me in kind of a telescope, too porky for my liking in a felt, so a reshaping was in order. It had a prominent ghost line from the old crease that required some fine sanding, steaming and brushing to remove. The felt was a bit resistant to dry manipulation, but molded like play-doh with steam.
The open crown is 5", the brim 2 1/2". 97g. 3/4" mid ribbon. The sweatband is quite interesting. 1 1/4" wide, and looks reeded at first inspection. As I was gently looking for tags, a small section of stitching gave and I could see that what looked like a reed sheath from the front was not. I got a pic from the reverse before sticking it back in place with double-sided tape. Don't think I've seen one like this before.

Here's the insides:

The "vrai feutre" or real felt (true felt is Google's actual translation) makes me wonder what kind of ersatz feutre was being foisted on the French people at this time...it is very real felt, real nice and real soft, but with some body. Thin, light and dense, feels like it may even have a bit of beaver in it.
Here's a head shot.

All in all, a nice piece of French hatmaking history. I'm going with the fifties on this one, as always if anyone has input I'd love to know what you all think.



Powered by happy thoughts

i like it.

 

[RJR]

This one is a bit of a mystery. It was listed on Etsy from a seller in Cognac, France who got it at a flea market. The vendor told her it was from someone in her family, bought in the 40's or 50's. It was sold by Maximes, apparently a retailer.
I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived Monday the 5th after being shipped on the 1st. I've had hats shipped to me within CA that took longer
I looked for clues as to who made it, but there were no tags or identifying stickers or anything convenient like that. The tip patch was pretty faded when I got it and faded a little more in the naptha bath, so I was unable to make out much beyond the Maximes logo.
What made me like it so much was actually the ribbon. The contrast against the charcoal felt just did it for me. Here's some pics.

It came to me in kind of a telescope, too porky for my liking in a felt, so a reshaping was in order. It had a prominent ghost line from the old crease that required some fine sanding, steaming and brushing to remove. The felt was a bit resistant to dry manipulation, but molded like play-doh with steam.
The open crown is 5", the brim 2 1/2". 97g. 3/4" mid ribbon. The sweatband is quite interesting. 1 1/4" wide, and looks reeded at first inspection. As I was gently looking for tags, a small section of stitching gave and I could see that what looked like a reed sheath from the front was not. I got a pic from the reverse before sticking it back in place with double-sided tape. Don't think I've seen one like this before.

Here's the insides:

The "vrai feutre" or real felt (true felt is Google's actual translation) makes me wonder what kind of ersatz feutre was being foisted on the French people at this time...it is very real felt, real nice and real soft, but with some body. Thin, light and dense, feels like it may even have a bit of beaver in it.
Here's a head shot.

All in all, a nice piece of French hatmaking history. I'm going with the fifties on this one, as always if anyone has input I'd love to know what you all think.



Powered by happy thoughts

Nice catch.

 

[mayserwegener]

This one is a bit of a mystery. It was listed on Etsy from a seller in Cognac, France who got it at a flea market. The vendor told her it was from someone in her family, bought in the 40's or 50's. It was sold by Maximes, apparently a retailer.
I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived Monday the 5th after being shipped on the 1st. I've had hats shipped to me within CA that took longer
I looked for clues as to who made it, but there were no tags or identifying stickers or anything convenient like that. The tip patch was pretty faded when I got it and faded a little more in the naptha bath, so I was unable to make out much beyond the Maximes logo.
What made me like it so much was actually the ribbon. The contrast against the charcoal felt just did it for me. Here's some pics.

It came to me in kind of a telescope, too porky for my liking in a felt, so a reshaping was in order. It had a prominent ghost line from the old crease that required some fine sanding, steaming and brushing to remove. The felt was a bit resistant to dry manipulation, but molded like play-doh with steam.
The open crown is 5", the brim 2 1/2". 97g. 3/4" mid ribbon. The sweatband is quite interesting. 1 1/4" wide, and looks reeded at first inspection. As I was gently looking for tags, a small section of stitching gave and I could see that what looked like a reed sheath from the front was not. I got a pic from the reverse before sticking it back in place with double-sided tape. Don't think I've seen one like this before.

Here's the insides:

The "vrai feutre" or real felt (true felt is Google's actual translation) makes me wonder what kind of ersatz feutre was being foisted on the French people at this time...it is very real felt, real nice and real soft, but with some body. Thin, light and dense, feels like it may even have a bit of beaver in it.
Here's a head shot.

All in all, a nice piece of French hatmaking history. I'm going with the fifties on this one, as always if anyone has input I'd love to know what you all think.



Powered by happy thoughts

Super find! It has a great look. It's another Euro mystery hat for now. I am pretty sure it's from a French company. It could be early to mid 1950s but might be a bit earlier.

 

[Redfokker]

This one is a bit of a mystery. It was listed on Etsy from a seller in Cognac, France who got it at a flea market. The vendor told her it was from someone in her family, bought in the 40's or 50's. It was sold by Maximes, apparently a retailer.
I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived Monday the 5th after being shipped on the 1st. I've had hats shipped to me within CA that took longer
I looked for clues as to who made it, but there were no tags or identifying stickers or anything convenient like that. The tip patch was pretty faded when I got it and faded a little more in the naptha bath, so I was unable to make out much beyond the Maximes logo.
What made me like it so much was actually the ribbon. The contrast against the charcoal felt just did it for me. Here's some pics.

It came to me in kind of a telescope, too porky for my liking in a felt, so a reshaping was in order. It had a prominent ghost line from the old crease that required some fine sanding, steaming and brushing to remove. The felt was a bit resistant to dry manipulation, but molded like play-doh with steam.
The open crown is 5", the brim 2 1/2". 97g. 3/4" mid ribbon. The sweatband is quite interesting. 1 1/4" wide, and looks reeded at first inspection. As I was gently looking for tags, a small section of stitching gave and I could see that what looked like a reed sheath from the front was not. I got a pic from the reverse before sticking it back in place with double-sided tape. Don't think I've seen one like this before.

Here's the insides:

The "vrai feutre" or real felt (true felt is Google's actual translation) makes me wonder what kind of ersatz feutre was being foisted on the French people at this time...it is very real felt, real nice and real soft, but with some body. Thin, light and dense, feels like it may even have a bit of beaver in it.
Here's a head shot.

All in all, a nice piece of French hatmaking history. I'm going with the fifties on this one, as always if anyone has input I'd love to know what you all think.



Powered by happy thoughts

Now I'm happy, I didn't notice the full Monty was here in the French thread. Truly a beautiful and historic looking hat Moe. It looks good on you.

 

[moehawk]

i like it.

Me too!
And thanks!

Nice catch.

Thanks RJR!

Super find! It has a great look. It's another Euro mystery hat for now. I am pretty sure it's from a French company. It could be early to mid 1950s but might be a bit earlier.

Thanks mayser! You seem to be the King of Euro mystery hats! Have you encountered a sweatband of this type before?
Looks like that French flea marketer knew her stuff at least as far as the age of the hat...

 

[moehawk]

Now I'm happy, I didn't notice the full Monty was here in the French thread. Truly a beautiful and historic looking hat Moe. It looks good on you.

Thanks Red!
Always glad to make my fellow Loungers happy!

 

[mayserwegener]

Me too!
And thanks!

Thanks RJR!

Thanks mayser! You seem to be the King of Euro mystery hats! Have you encountered a sweatband of this type before?
Looks like that French flea marketer knew her stuff at least as far as the age of the hat...

Looking at it again I am not sure of the dating. I have most likely seen a similar sweatband along the way. It's lower price point so some of the components might make it appear older than it is. Also the size tag at the rear of the sweatband. You see French companies using antique looking tags later than other countries. The stamping on the sweatband could be later too. Unfortunately we have a small database of French vintage hats.

I did a quick look back and this French Wool hat looks very similar to German Wool hats of the late 30s early 40s.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/french-hats-and-makers.36690/page-17#post-2230081

 

[moehawk]

Looking at it again I am not sure of the dating. I have most likely seen a similar sweatband along the way. It's lower price point so some of the components might make it appear older than it is. Also the size tag at the rear of the sweatband. You see French companies using antique looking tags later than other countries. The stamping on the sweatband could be later too. Unfortunately we have a small database of French vintage hats.

I did a quick look back and this French Wool hat looks very similar to German Wool hats of the late 30s early 40s.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/french-hats-and-makers.36690/page-17#post-2230081

The small database for French hats is a bummer. Not to mention the later use of old school components. Just out of curiosity, do those little oval initial stickers say anything about the dating? I only have one other hat with them, my Mossant bowler.
Regardless of the age, it's still a cool little lid that's going to get a lot of use.

 

[mayserwegener]

The small database for French hats is a bummer. Not to mention the later use of old school components. Just out of curiosity, do those little oval initial stickers say anything about the dating? I only have one other hat with them, my Mossant bowler.
Regardless of the age, it's still a cool little lid that's going to get a lot of use.

Yes it's a great hat. I really like mystery hats like this one. As you know I have many German and Austrian ones. Yes the size tag looks / could be antique. The French did tend to use them much later. Did you find anything on name and address?

 

[moehawk]

Yes it's a great hat. I really like mystery hats like this one. As you know I have many German and Austrian ones. Yes the size tag looks / could be antique. The French did tend to use them much later. Did you find anything on name and address?

A Googling of Maximes turned up little, and the address is now a shop that does not appear to sell hats. Looks like stuff in jars, maybe health products? Hard to tell from the pics online. The stickers I was referring to were not the size sticker, but the little ovals with presumably the original owner's initials. Without going back through a bunch of threads, it just seems like I've seen those more often in pics of older hats here, and on eBay and Etsy.

 

[Redfokker]

My Mossant has those initial ovals, metal and clipped into the sweat. I don't seem to remember seeing this type used on American hats.

 

[moehawk]

My Mossant has those initial ovals, metal and clipped into the sweat. I don't seem to remember seeing this type used on American hats.
View attachment 76424

I never tried to mess with the ones on my Mossant because I didn't want to damage the old leather, and just assumed they were stuck on. I guess my observational skills aren't what they used to be.

 

[mayserwegener]

My Mossant has those initial ovals, metal and clipped into the sweat. I don't seem to remember seeing this type used on American hats.
View attachment 76424

They went out of use in America so you only see them on American antique hats. They (vintage and new) are still used in Europe (for example Stetson Europe has a branded version). The look changed over time but not how they are applied.

 

[mayserwegener]

A Googling of Maximes turned up little, and the address is now a shop that does not appear to sell hats. Looks like stuff in jars, maybe health products? Hard to tell from the pics online. The stickers I was referring to were not the size sticker, but the little ovals with presumably the original owner's initials. Without going back through a bunch of threads, it just seems like I've seen those more often in pics of older hats here, and on eBay and Etsy.

Looks like they were still in business as of 1978. The following are translated snippets because the entire documents are not available.

Bulletin officiel des annonces civiles et commerciales - Part 1 - Page 42 - 1978 (Google Translate)

BARROUX (Fernand), French. Retail sale of headgear, sign and denomination: CHAPEAUX MAXIME, in Tours, 109, rue des Halles. Secondary establishment located in Tours, 5, rue des Halles, under the banner and the denomination of ...

Bulletin officiel des annonces commerciales - Part 2 - Page 30 - 1975 (Google Translate)

This company sets up a branch, as of April 2, 1975, in Joué-lès-Tours, industrial zone No. 2, 11 and 13, rue de Prory .... Hats Maxime, Tours, 33, avenue de Grammont, Funds received under management lease, with respect to 1975, of BARROUX (Fernand), RC 59-A 1819 747 - RC 75-A 166. ... Hat shop (retail trade), with the Maxime Hats Tours, 109, rue des Halles.

From a Post Card Collector (Google Translate)

TOURS (37) - "MAXIME HATS, old Chrétien-Goullet House, BARROUX 109 rue des Halles" - 2 ADVERTISING CARDS - Drawings of 2 humorous chart cards from the 1907 Carnaval "Char de l'Armée" Already the new taxes (tax on the umbrellas, tax on the foot baths, tax on the CORS ...)

You still see the Initial Pins used today (vintage/antique and new) in Europe. Some shops have old stock. The ones on the hat look like an older type but difficult to use for dating. My guess is still 1950s maybe older.