Freewheelers vs. The Real McCoys vs. Vanson Cross Zip Jackets

[Bfd70]

^100%. It’s the problem with the entire “work wear” trend. Obsess over clean lines and perfect exotic materials assembled by master craftsmen when the originals were assembled using every last scrap and in many cases assembled by people with a few months on the job.

 

[Marc mndt]

Personally, I find some of the minutiae or microscopic examination of trivial details starts to degrade the point of a leather jacket. This is merely my opinion of course but with all these things being inspired by things that came from the past…when all the small and largely unimportant details become the central focus, all authenticity is lost. This is not an excuse for hack work. Hack work is hack work.

I agree that it should not become the central focus, the central focus should be

1) fit
2) design
3) leather.

A perfectly stitched jacket that doesn't fit is worth 0 to me. But I do expect absolute perfection when spending north of $2k on a leather jacket. Because what else am I paying ridiculous money for if it's not for perfection?

(Side note : I actually think FW jackets are hugely overpriced. Yes they make quality jackets, but so do Lost Worlds, Thedi Leathers and others. Jackets from these makers are full custom which requires a lot of pattern work yet they're less expensive than FW.)

I suppose this is ultimately my problem with Japanese made (and other repro makers as well) M/C jackets. They look to me like display case items, rather than the tools they were intended to be. I will not argue they are beautiful. Of course they are, but they are also too elegant. In my opinion this level of elegance degrades the jackets authenticity.

How is the FW LaBrea too elegant? I'd say it's exactly as elegant as the original Leathertogs. Same French seams, same flannel lining, same ornamental hardware, same stitch count, same generous upper sleeves etc etc. Or am I missing something? OK they didn't have Shinki Leather back in the 1930's, I'll give you that.

 

[morrison2951]

Agreed and if you apply this same mentality to jackets (I.e, stitching, etc within reason) and look at the whole of the jacket there is a much higher probability to yield success.

Personally, I find some of the minutiae or microscopic examination of trivial details starts to degrade the point of a leather jacket. This is merely my opinion of course but with all these things being inspired by things that came from the past…when all the small and largely unimportant details become the central focus, all authenticity is lost. This is not an excuse for hack work. Hack work is hack work.

I suppose this is ultimately my problem with Japanese made (and other repro makers as well) M/C jackets. They look to me like display case items, rather than the tools they were intended to be. I will not argue they are beautiful. Of course they are, but they are also too elegant. In my opinion this level of elegance degrades the jackets authenticity.

When I look at other Japanese repro’s, like a Halfbelt, I do not have the same feeling. The elegance plays in favor of the design and purpose, not against it like the m/c patterns. Long rant! Either way I think you’ve stepped through a door with the Vanson (and the Bodie for that matter) and are on the right track.

My first GW Is incoming. The waiting is the hardest part.

Shinki leather and details galore. Nothing I will ever have will likely compare.

Sketch stitching or not.... it will be the grail jacket in my closet!

 

[jglf]

That's sort of what I'm doing. I still care about the quality, but I have to bend on some things in order to get proper fitting garments. I do believe that the whole outfit matters more than just the individual items. I may just get another Bodie in black just because of how well it fits.

If you find 2 Bodie’s in black, let me know as that’s my favorite jacket I’ve seen so far!

 

[ton312]

I agree that it should not become the central focus, the central focus should be

1) fit
2) design
3) leather.

A perfectly stitched jacket that doesn't fit is worth 0 to me. But I do expect absolute perfection when spending north of $2k on a leather jacket. Because what else am I paying ridiculous money for if it's not for perfection?

(Side note : I actually think FW jackets are hugely overpriced. Yes they make quality jackets, but so do Lost Worlds, Thedi Leathers and others. Jackets from these makers are full custom which requires a lot of pattern work yet they're less expensive than FW.)


How is the FW LaBrea too elegant? I'd say it's exactly as elegant as the original Leathertogs. Same French seams, same flannel lining, same ornamental hardware, same stitch count, same generous upper sleeves etc etc. Or am I missing something? OK they didn't have Shinki Leather back in the 1930's, I'll give you that.

View attachment 415297 View attachment 415298

This is an interesting subject for me as I’ve divorced myself from most of the notions I used to hold about jackets. It’s true the original in this case is certainly more ornate, than say a Sears or Buco. I’m sure if held in hand, the FW would still feel more like a jewel than the original (and let’s be honest, this is a very, very obscure model to begin with). You could make the same argument about my Campus jacket vs. The GW Arcaidia.

The bigger picture to me is that it’s precisely this notion of perfection that ruins the allure, destroys the authenticity and turns a leather jacket into more of a display piece. Like a fabregé egg. What’s interesting though is that I don’t get this feeling from every repro maker. I don’t think LW jackets look this way, despite the clear and deliberate attempt at surpassing the originals in materials, construction, etc. They certainly do, but to my eye they carry far more authenticity than say the RMC or Aero iteration. Same can be said for a few others. It’s just a look. I don’t know how to explain it. But I can see it.

I could never justify paying $2k for a jacket. I can’t answer the question of what you are paying that price for. Primarily I suppose because I have yet to see a single one that looks like it’s worth it. Not a single one, in a decade here, the years prior or my sordid google history. I have or had jackets that would match or trump them for pennies on the dollar (from the perspective of what I value in a leather jacket, naturally others would feel differently). Part of this comes from viewing things from a further distance and being far less concerned with the minutiae. Having run a decent gambit of repro makers this is the feeling I’m left with. Consistency within reason with regard to construction, materials and hardware. And of course, I have to be able to wear it. Same with “perfect fit”. No such thing. It fits or it doesn’t.

To each their own of course and everybody has an opinion on the matter but I just can’t escape the feeling that the quest for perfection in a leather jacket is a silly notion that fundamentally does not fit or apply to the garment itself. The allegation of perfection is merely the justification for a price tag IMO.

As I said before this is not an excuse for hack work. The pursuit of some form of perfection makes more sense for formal wear. I don’t see it as authentic to leather jackets. They were not born from that quest. For some styles it makes more sense than others but largely it simply doesn’t fit the modus operandi of the garment itself.

 

[Will Zach]

They certainly do, but to my eye they carry far more authenticity than say the RMC or Aero iteration. Same can be said for a few others. It’s just a look. I don’t know how to explain it. But I can see it.

Maybe it's that you prefer the modern jacket to be equipment, like a LW or a Vanson, as opposed to an ornament such as the FW or RMC. Equipment carries more "authenticity" cred imo. But if one makes that argument, it is better to ride or else risk being a poseur or a "rugged menswear" fanboy. No easy answers here. Of course that dilemma disappears when one only wears vintage, as most everything in vintage is "authentic".

 

[red devil]

This is an interesting subject for me as I’ve divorced myself from most of the notions I used to hold about jackets. It’s true the original in this case is certainly more ornate, than say a Sears or Buco. I’m sure if held in hand, the FW would still feel more like a jewel than the original (and let’s be honest, this is a very, very obscure model to begin with). You could make the same argument about my Campus jacket vs. The GW Arcaidia.

The bigger picture to me is that it’s precisely this notion of perfection that ruins the allure, destroys the authenticity and turns a leather jacket into more of a display piece. Like a fabregé egg. What’s interesting though is that I don’t get this feeling from every repro maker. I don’t think LW jackets look this way, despite the clear and deliberate attempt at surpassing the originals in materials, construction, etc. They certainly do, but to my eye they carry far more authenticity than say the RMC or Aero iteration. Same can be said for a few others. It’s just a look. I don’t know how to explain it. But I can see it.

I could never justify paying $2k for a jacket. I can’t answer the question of what you are paying that price for. Primarily I suppose because I have yet to see a single one that looks like it’s worth it. Not a single one, in a decade here, the years prior or my sordid google history. I have or had jackets that would match or trump them for pennies on the dollar (from the perspective of what I value in a leather jacket, naturally others would feel differently). Part of this comes from viewing things from a further distance and being far less concerned with the minutiae. Having run a decent gambit of repro makers this is the feeling I’m left with. Consistency within reason with regard to construction, materials and hardware. And of course, I have to be able to wear it. Same with “perfect fit”. No such thing. It fits or it doesn’t.

To each their own of course and everybody has an opinion on the matter but I just can’t escape the feeling that the quest for perfection in a leather jacket is a silly notion that fundamentally does not fit or apply to the garment itself. The allegation of perfection is merely the justification for a price tag IMO.

As I said before this is not an excuse for hack work. The pursuit of some form of perfection makes more sense for formal wear. I don’t see it as authentic to leather jackets. They were not born from that quest. For some styles it makes more sense than others but largely it simply doesn’t fit the modus operandi of the garment itself.

I am not sure it is a notion of perfection as much as a notion of functionality. I have handled a few FW and others and... I would be worried to take them riding, a rock concert etc. Not that they would necessarily be damaged, but I am still tempted to treat them like Italian fashion jackets. I still remember once, during my early days here, posting about being careful with a jacket and being told of - rightfully so - by a member here.

That being said, other jackets ooze functionality, you know that they are build for function primarily - no matter how perfectly made they are - is this what you are getting to? And I agree, you can see this somehow, but more importantly you feel it immediately when having the jacket in hands.

I also agree with you, either a jacket sits well on you either it doesn't. As long as it doesn't look like a sack of potatoes, you;re good to go lol

 

[red devil]

Maybe it's that you prefer the modern jacket to be equipment, like a LW or a Vanson, as opposed to an ornament such as the FW or RMC.

Didn't see your post while writing mine, spot on

 

[ton312]

Maybe it's that you prefer the modern jacket to be equipment, like a LW or a Vanson, as opposed to an ornament such as the FW or RMC. Equipment carries more "authenticity" cred imo. But if one makes that argument, it is better to ride or else risk being a poseur or a "rugged menswear" fanboy. No easy answers here. Of course that dilemma disappears when one only wears vintage, as most everything in vintage is "authentic".

Sorry Will. You and I are the biggest poseurs of all. Especially me. I wasn’t even alive when 90% of my jackets were made. I work in an office and if I didn’t lift everyday my hands would be as soft as a babies bare ass.
Yet here I go strutting around like it’s 1945 and I’m a jazz musician/ iron worker.

 

[Will Zach]

Yeah, I guess there is no escaping that label unless you wear North Face or play in a rock and roll band.

 

[ton312]

Yeah, I guess there is no escaping that label unless you wear North Face or play in a rock and roll band.

North Face and you are type cast as d-bag former frat boy with zero creativity. I suppose the rock star is immune. Actors look like fools dressed by their mothers. Somebody call Will Smith, I need a smack.

 

[red devil]

Yeah, I guess there is no escaping that label unless you wear North Face or play in a rock and roll band.

Nah! Just go to a mosh pit, instant cred lol

 

[red devil]

I suppose the rock star is immune

They are on to something, dress in the same way as rock stars like you mean it, and you will be immune as well

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Wny not get a Thedi?

I dont like any of their designs for me personally. I've tried to want one, but I just don't.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

With how much I've used two of my FW jackets, I don't see then as display pieces. Once you have someone butcher the sleeves on one, you've already gone over the edge.

I still love precise stitching and clean craftsmanship. I try to get that plus design, fit, and leather in my jackets. My Bodie achieves that and I think my RC A2 does as well. So I don't feel like I have to compromise on what I love in order to get what I need.

In fact, something funny I have thought of is that a couple years ago, I would have considered this La Brea a perfect fit on me. It's just now that I've achieved better fits, the flaws come out. I'd still classify it as a "good" fit, but as of now, I'm not sure "good" is good enough

 

[JMax]

North Face and you are type cast as d-bag former frat boy with zero creativity. I suppose the rock star is immune. Actors look like fools dressed by their mothers. Somebody call Will Smith, I need a smack.

I like North Face, and I resemble that remark. I fall into the functional category- both in build and fit of the jacket. No need to chase perfection, in anything. Good enough always wins out in the end, no matter the endeavor. I was told almost two decades ago, while the adversary is devising the perfect plan, I’m rolling my tanks over their ass with my good enough plan lol. I believe that.

 

[red devil]

I dont like any of their designs for me personally. I've tried to want one, but I just don't.

I think you need to handle them physically to figure out what you want

 

[red devil]

I like North Face, and I resemble that remark. I fall into the functional category- both in build and fit of the jacket. No need to chase perfection, in anything. Good enough always wins out in the end, no matter the endeavor. I was told almost two decades ago, while the adversary is devising the perfect plan, I’m rolling my tanks over their ass with my good enough plan lol. I believe that.

In other words, "get your feet wet"

Reminds me we were once hiring a developer for a new project, the first interviewee started talking about undertaking a big study and maybe getting started in six months. The second said, I can have something working roughly in about 2 weeks for a starter. You can guess which guy we liked better lol

 

[tmitchell59]

Personally, I find some of the minutiae or microscopic examination of trivial details starts to degrade the point of a leather jacket. This is merely my opinion of course but with all these things being inspired by things that came from the past…when all the small and largely unimportant details become the central focus, all authenticity is lost. This is not an excuse for hack work. Hack work is hack work.

Amen Brother

 

[JMax]

In other words, "get your feet wet"

Reminds me we were once hiring a developer for a new project, the first interviewee started talking about undertaking a big study and maybe getting started in six months. The second said, I can have something working roughly in about 2 weeks for a starter. You can guess which guy we liked better lol

That’s it.