Flag at half-staff

[Nick Charles]

When does flying the flag at half staff lose its signifigance? I work at a public school and it seems lately in this state that the flag is half staff too often. According to the regulations I found this is the proper reasoning.

The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection

So if these are the reasons why is it that the Governor of the state has the power to lower the flag for say 1 fallen soilder. Or former well to do in the state. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose. I'm probably going to get slapped by the current and former Servicemen but I didn't write the code, I just wondered about it. The US armed forces do a great a noble job. But this seems to be losing its meaning and relevance to me.

 

[BonnieJean]

This is happening more and more often in my state too. My hubby is very knowledgeable about the protocols of our flag and he says that the governor doesn't have the power to lower the flag at any whim--it can only be by proclamation from the President of the United States. He's in charge of several banking facilities and has taken some slack by not lowering the flag whenever a city/county/state official says so. He's a strictly "by the code" kind of guy. And we agree with you that the flag seems to be losing its reverence and meaning.

 

[Samsa]

The lowering of the flag can be a great and symbolic gesture, but I do think that it is perhaps losing its significance. I remember a time, not too long ago, when our Governor was ordering the flag to be lowered virtually every time that a serviceman was killed in Iraq. I certainly think that the loss of one soldier is a tragedy, but if we were to lower the flag for every young man and woman that gave up their life for this country, then the flag would never fly at full mast.

Also, to the extent that this is used as a political gesture, I have problem with it. I get the feeling that some politicians use this to gain support, instead of using it as it was intended: an expression of National mourning.

Just my take...

 

[Willi_Goat]

You will not get slapped by this Serviceman. I see the flag lowered all the time on state buildings and some time federal ones as well. I have actually called private businesses on situations like that and when they have a tattered unserviceable flag.

Our flag does not seem to get the same respect afforded it many years ago, I think in part because it is not taught anymore. I insure my children definitely know flag etiquette, and they will at times point out something amiss.

It is sad that many times, I am the only one watching a parade, when not carrying the colors in it, that I am about the only one removing my hat or saluting, hand over heart, when it goes by. When I am marching, I notice very few that show the proper respect. Ten years ago I would see police officers salute as we marched by, that is the exception now a day. Sorry about getting a little off the topic with that.

Every flag I have bought comes with a flag etiquette pamphlet. It would do anyone who buys and displays a flag to read this information and abide it. A government entity should insure they are familiar with this by default.

Does any one have an opinion on this situation? I was in Kuwait when President Reagan died. As per USC 4, the flag was displayed at half staff for 30 days. However, the Kuwaiti flag was flow full staff. My opinion is that the National Colors should not have been flown below the flag of another country. I do not think it would have been as disrespectful to fly the flag full staff during the time as it was to display it beneath the Kuwaiti flag.

Ok, I am off the soapbox.

 

[Samsa]

You will not get slapped by this Serviceman. I see the flag lowered all the time on state buildings and some time federal ones as well. I have actually called private businesses on situations like that and when they have a tattered unserviceable flag.

Our flag does not seem to get the same respect afforded it many years ago, I think in part because it is not taught anymore. I insure my children definitely know flag etiquette, and they will at times point out something amiss.

It is sad that many times, I am the only one watching a parade, when not carrying the colors in it, that I am about the only one removing my hat or saluting, hand over heart, when it goes by. When I am marching, I notice very few that show the proper respect. Ten years ago I would see police officers salute as we marched by, that is the exception now a day. Sorry about getting a little off the topic with that.

Every flag I have bought comes with a flag etiquette pamphlet. It would do anyone who buys and displays a flag to read this information and abide it. A government entity should insure they are familiar with this by default.

Does any one have an opinion on this situation? I was in Kuwait when President Reagan died. As per USC 4, the flag was displayed at half staff for 30 days. However, the Kuwaiti flag was flow full staff. My opinion is that the National Colors should not have been flown below the flag of another country. I do not think it would have been as disrespectful to fly the flag full staff during the time as it was to display it beneath the Kuwaiti flag.

Ok, I am off the soapbox.

I think that you're right about the etiquette of the flag not being taught anymore. I was in Boy Scouts, and we definitely were taught a respect for the flag - how to fold it properly, how to hang it properly, etc. Every morning at a campsite began with raising the flag and the pledge, and every night we lowered it, folded it properly, and stored it.

I can't count the number of times I've seen the flag hung the wrong way, or hanging out in poor weather, or not lighted properly.... If my understanding is correct, there are only several flags that have permission to be flown at all times, and one is the flag at Gettysburg.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

When i used to see a flag at half-staff (-mast, i believe in britain) i was interested to find out why. It seems that the flag on my local post office here in Lafayette, and at the airport next to which i play soccer, is at half-staff at least once a week. I am no longer interested. I have become jaded by half-staff mania.

bk

 

[Willi_Goat]

I think that you're right about the etiquette of the flag not being taught anymore. When I was a kid I was in Boy Scouts, and we definitely were taught a respect for the flag - how to fold it properly, how to hang it properly, etc. Every morning at a campsite began with raising the flag and the pledge, and every night we lowered it, folded it properly, and stored it.

I can't count the number of times I've seen the flag hung the wrong way, or hanging out in poor weather, or not lighted properly.... If my understanding is correct, there are only several flags that have permission to be flown at all times, and one is the flag at Gettysburg.

I learned respect for the flag in Scouts as well as in school at the time. I think it may be touched on briefly now, but not very thoroughly. Of course I remember some things that I was told was not exactly correct. But at least I was given a pretty good grasp of the overall picture.

There are several places that fly the flag 24/7 by law, however I do not think there is anything restricting flying a flag 24/7 as long as it is a proper flag for the weather and it is properly illuminated during hours of darkness. And of course that is one of the keys, proper illumination. I see too often a flag flying at night without lighting anywhere near. I know there are several different types of flags for different occasions, at least for the military. Garrison, flown on flag holidays mostly, post, flown daily, storm, pretty much self explanatory, internment, self explanatory, etc. However usually the flag is not flown at night and a reveille and retreat ceremony is still performed.

 

[BonnieJean]

Willi_Goat,
You are correct that the USA flag should never be flown lower than any other flag. If it's half-mast, then other flags (like state, or foreign country, etc.) have to be lowered as well. What really gets my husband's goat (sorry about the pun, Willi_Goat, not intentional) is when vehicles are displaying our nation's flag at the rear. He says that the flag should never be displayed at the rear--its a sign of retreat. He's a volunteer firefighter and has had to point that out to fire companies that will put the flag on the back of their trucks.

My sons are Eagle Scouts and have been taught the proper etiquette of the flag. There's even a proper way of disposing tattered flags--our boy scout troop still does that. But maybe their troop is the exception these days. I can't comment about other troops, but maybe it's because we're in the "backwoods" of the Midwest where traditions still stand for something, although modern society is creeping in fast.

fftopic: My husband wouldn't even allow the use of paper plates or napkins with the flag on it for my sons' Eagle Scout ceremonies. He says the flag can't be displayed on disposable items (and there's a lot of "flag-decorated" paperware out there). I looked up the flag "code" and he is correct on this. He can be such a stickler at times. I ended up using just red, white, and blue paper goods.

 

[Willi_Goat]

Willi_Goat,
You are correct that the USA flag should never be flown lower than any other flag. If it's half-mast, then other flags (like state, or foreign country, etc.) have to be lowered as well. What really gets my husband's goat (sorry about the pun, Willi_Goat, not intentional) is when vehicles are displaying our nation's flag at the rear. He says that the flag should never be displayed at the rear--its a sign of retreat. He's a volunteer firefighter and has had to point that out to fire companies that will put the flag on the back of their trucks.

My sons are Eagle Scouts and have been taught the proper etiquette of the flag. There's even a proper way of disposing tattered flags--our boy scout troop still does that. But maybe their troop is the exception these days. I can't comment about other troops, but maybe it's because we're in the "backwoods" of the Midwest where traditions still stand for something, although modern society is creeping in fast.

fftopic: My husband wouldn't even allow the use of paper plates or napkins with the flag on it for my sons' Eagle Scout ceremonies. He says the flag can't be displayed on disposable items (and there's a lot of "flag-decorated" paperware out there). I looked up the flag "code" and he is correct on this. He can be such a stickler at times. I ended up using just red, white, and blue paper goods.

I am sure no one wanted to offend the Kuwaitis asking to fly thiers at half staff, but the US Colors should have been flown at the same height.

I have corrected people about that several times on the flag at the rear. I am often told my flag tattoo is incorrect, I have it on my right arm and of course the union is forward to the flag's left. Funny thing is that these same people would not question the placement of the flag on our aircraft tail.

We have several Scout troops and veteran's organizations that dispose of flags properly around the Savannah.

 

[Cobden]

The Kuwaiti thing is interesting; as it would not be appropriate to have their flag at half mast, but (if it the same for the US as it is for the UK) the national flag over an Embassy should not be lower then any other flag on display. The only way I can see around it is not to fly the Kuwaiti flag; but if it is protocol for US embassies to fly the host's flag (which it isn't in the UK), then I can't see a way around it...

 

[Willi_Goat]

The Kuwaiti thing is interesting; as it would not be appropriate to have their flag at half mast, but (if it the same for the US as it is for the UK) the national flag over an Embassy should not be lower then any other flag on display. The only way I can see around it is not to fly the Kuwaiti flag; but if it is protocol for US embassies to fly the host's flag (which it isn't in the UK), then I can't see a way around it...

I was on a Kuwaiti air base, I could never find out if the Kuwaiti flag was flown as a courtesy or whether it was mandated by an agreement. I personally think the precendence should have be given to showing the proper respect for the flag, and ultimately the United States of America, by flying the flags at the same level.

 

[Viviene]

My DH (who is an Eagle Scout) was very upset that the company flag at his place of employment was flying higher than Old Glory. He went out and lowered the company flag. He was going to be suspended for this. He brought in the information about how no flag in the U.S. is supposed to fly higher than Old Glory. The suspension was dropped and the company flag is now lower than Old Glory. Some people just need a little educating.

 

[Harp]

Flag

Flag display at half-staff has until recently been more the exception
than rule, and an honor usually reserved for national mourning.
At military funerals, spent cartridge shells from rifle volley salute are
typically placed inside the tri-corner folded flag. Now, at airport security
screening checkpoints, funeral flags with shell casings can cause
incident-I have witnessed one such episode with a distraught father
refusing to allow his son's funeral flag opened or the shells inside removed.
Customs and traditions, and these times....

 

[Willi_Goat]

Flag display at half-staff has until recently been more the exception
than rule, and an honor usually reserved for national mourning.
At military funerals, spent cartridge shells from rifle volley salute are
typically placed inside the tri-corner folded flag. Now, at airport security
screening checkpoints, funeral flags with shell casings can cause
incident-I have witnessed one such episode with a distraught father
refusing to allow his son's funeral flag opened or the shells inside removed.
Customs and traditions, and these times....

Actually the placement of the shell casings in the flag is a violation of US Code. The Air Force Honor Guard came down with a directive letting all units know to discontinue this practice. It is from Title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1, § 8, "(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything." We take a spare white glove and place three shells in it and present it to the next of kin.

Not that trying to make a grieving parent unfold the flag is a little over the top. Normally they were placed in it after the folding was complete and the flag would not have to have been unfolded. However, that probably would not have pacified the screeners.

 

[Harp]

Flag

Well, the screeners have their job to do, and, of course it is
unfortunate necessity.
I pulled funeral detail in the Army, while serving in the 101st Airborne
at the close of Vietnam, and shell casings were put directly inside
the folded flag before presentation to next-of-kin. Perhaps things
are done differently today, but I suspect that in the Army; especially
in elite line outfits, this practice continues.

 

[NewMexExpat]

With Flags of Other Nations:

... As per USC 4, the flag was displayed at half staff for 30 days. However, the Kuwaiti flag was flow full staff. My opinion is that the National Colors should not have been flown below the flag of another country. ...

***************
Department of Defense
DIRECTIVE​

1005.6
December 10, 2004​

SUBJECT: Display of the National Flag at Half-Staff​

3.4. The flag shall be flown at half-staff outside the United States on DoD buildings, grounds, and naval vessels worldwide even if another nation's flag is flown full-staff next to the national flag of the United States.

***************​

I found Marine and Army references stating this, and references to the old Air Force Regulation 900-3 stating the same, but could not find the Air Force Instruction successor to AFR 900-3.

Haven't found anything on routinely flying the flag of host nations, though to my mind, logic says you don't set up a military base in an allied country without showing the respect of displaying their flag. Might be covered in each Status of Forces Agreement.

Regards,

- Mark

 

[BonnieJean]

flag etiquette website

Here's a link to a non-profit website dedicated to the American flag.

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

I believe this is the website that my husband refers back to. It's very informative and doesn't bash people with what they call "good faith misunderstandings" about the flag.

 

[Willi_Goat]

***************
Department of Defense
DIRECTIVE​

1005.6
December 10, 2004​

SUBJECT: Display of the National Flag at Half-Staff​

3.4. The flag shall be flown at half-staff outside the United States on DoD buildings, grounds, and naval vessels worldwide even if another nation's flag is flown full-staff next to the national flag of the United States.

***************​

I found Marine and Army references stating this, and references to the old Air Force Regulation 900-3 stating the same, but could not find the Air Force Instruction successor to AFR 900-3.

Haven't found anything on routinely flying the flag of host nations, though to my mind, logic says you don't set up a military base in an allied country without showing the respect of displaying their flag. Might be covered in each Status of Forces Agreement.

Regards,

- Mark

The Air Force has never replaced 900-3 for some reason. When we switched over to the AFI system that one fell by the wayside. We do have those that deal with drill and ceremonies though. I usually refer to the USC if need be.

This directive is dated after the time frame I was referring to, Jun 04. I was never able to find anything during that time as far as an Air Force reference.

I would think that flying the US flag would be covered in the SOFA with that country. I know in Oman we were not able to fly the flag except for a brief ceremony every week.

I guess it is kind of a moot point, since those decisions are made way above my pay grade.