Five Star Leather Jackets

[Aloysius]

I've seen comments from others on here about how they won't do "big drops", which is kinda the reason I'm here at all.

Says who? Tons of Aero’s have massive V-shaped drops.

Indian Ranger is 10”, CHIPs is similarly huge, etc.

 

[unhatted]

The LAPD arrived, finally! As I mentioned, recent experiences on this thread had me quite pessimistic about the likely outcome, but maybe that expectation management was a good thing, as I’m pretty delighted with the result—initial thoughts below.

The good:

I think they pretty much nailed the fit. Based on my last experience I specced the smallest I thought I could get away with, keeping the proportions in line with their own pattern grading (essentially, it has custom measurements only in the sense that it’s 1.5 steps below their smallest listed size). The measurements are all either dead on or up to half a cm larger, which is fine by me—I think I’d anticipated that they would skew bigger if anything, and I’m glad I was right!

The hide is thick and smells good, in a new leather way. I asked for premium goat, minimum 1.2mm as with my previous 5* order, and it’s over a pound heavier and feels much thicker than that jacket. Which one is closer to 1.2mm I have no idea. For further comparison this jacket weighs a hair less than my 90s Schott 618 (in 36) and is almost a pound heavier than my 70s Schott-Beck 999 (in 34). While as heavy as the 618, this feels much easier to wear, due to the suppleness of the goatskin, and mobility feels good despite the lack of gussets.

This isn’t really about 5*, but I love the pattern, and getting it in the right size it works better than I thought it would. I noticed on their size chart that the width seems to drop faster than the length, meaning that the smaller sizes are maybe a little less short in the body. This is short, but it covers the top half of my belt loops at the front, so feels wearable.

The questionable:

Not too much to my eye TBH. It’s a shame the belt loops went on later as it would have looked neater if there were only one row of stitching, but I guess this means that if they ever come loose they won’t take the hem stitching with them (as has happened on my Beck). The belt loops also seem to be a different and thinner hide to the body of the jacket but maybe this is standard, and I’m overthinking because I know they were a later addition!

The belt loops on the back are higher than those on the front. I don’t know if this is a pattern thing or sloppy grading—I can get a belt through them but it’s certainly angled downwards.

Those lapels are huge, which I kind of love, but I wonder if they should have been reduced a tiny bit as it’s such a small size, as I think they’re basically the same size as on the much larger original. I’ve seen tiny Cals with them smaller than this, and about this size, so I think it’s not historically inaccurate, but I might have requested a tiny bit off them—but then we’re into custom speccing territory. I feel the same about the back yoke—I think I’d like a bit more of a point, but the original is the original!

In any case, my partner took one look and pronounced this jacket “your best one”, so I’m happy. Would a Cal be even better? Yes, I’m sure it would if I could find one that fit this well, but I think this will do nicely in the meantime.

Thanks to @Bahabp100 for providing the original jacket and @Canuck Panda for testing out a second build!

Pics:

 

[PilotJens]

This is a leather jacket and not a costume. Looks great

 

[Bahabp100]

The LAPD arrived, finally! As I mentioned, recent experiences on this thread had me quite pessimistic about the likely outcome, but maybe that expectation management was a good thing, as I’m pretty delighted with the result—initial thoughts below.

The good:

I think they pretty much nailed the fit. Based on my last experience I specced the smallest I thought I could get away with, keeping the proportions in line with their own pattern grading (essentially, it has custom measurements only in the sense that it’s 1.5 steps below their smallest listed size). The measurements are all either dead on or up to half a cm larger, which is fine by me—I think I’d anticipated that they would skew bigger if anything, and I’m glad I was right!

The hide is thick and smells good, in a new leather way. I asked for premium goat, minimum 1.2mm as with my previous 5* order, and it’s over a pound heavier and feels much thicker than that jacket. Which one is closer to 1.2mm I have no idea. For further comparison this jacket weighs a hair less than my 90s Schott 618 (in 36) and is almost a pound heavier than my 70s Schott-Beck 999 (in 34). While as heavy as the 618, this feels much easier to wear, due to the suppleness of the goatskin, and mobility feels good despite the lack of gussets.

This isn’t really about 5*, but I love the pattern, and getting it in the right size it works better than I thought it would. I noticed on their size chart that the width seems to drop faster than the length, meaning that the smaller sizes are maybe a little less short in the body. This is short, but it covers the top half of my belt loops at the front, so feels wearable.

The questionable:

Not too much to my eye TBH. It’s a shame the belt loops went on later as it would have looked neater if there were only one row of stitching, but I guess this means that if they ever come loose they won’t take the hem stitching with them (as has happened on my Beck). The belt loops also seem to be a different and thinner hide to the body of the jacket but maybe this is standard, and I’m overthinking because I know they were a later addition!

The belt loops on the back are higher than those on the front. I don’t know if this is a pattern thing or sloppy grading—I can get a belt through them but it’s certainly angled downwards.

Those lapels are huge, which I kind of love, but I wonder if they should have been reduced a tiny bit as it’s such a small size, as I think they’re basically the same size as on the much larger original. I’ve seen tiny Cals with them smaller than this, and about this size, so I think it’s not historically inaccurate, but I might have requested a tiny bit off them—but then we’re into custom speccing territory. I feel the same about the back yoke—I think I’d like a bit more of a point, but the original is the original!

In any case, my partner took one look and pronounced this jacket “your best one”, so I’m happy. Would a Cal be even better? Yes, I’m sure it would if I could find one that fit this well, but I think this will do nicely in the meantime.

Thanks to @Bahabp100 for providing the original jacket and @Canuck Panda for testing out a second build!

Pics:

View attachment 599356 View attachment 599357 View attachment 599358 View attachment 599359 View attachment 599360 View attachment 599361 View attachment 599362

There you go , a masterpiece and great just perfect fit without question, really. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of compliments . Did you get it without a Fur collar? Also why goat over horsehide. Just curious

 

[unhatted]

There you go , a masterpiece and great just perfect fit without question, really. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of compliments . Did you get it without a Fur collar? Also why goat over horsehide. Just curious

I got it with the fur collar, which is very nice and may get some use in the colder months, and the throat latch, which is very unlikely to! No belt.

I went for the goat as it seems to be what they specialise in and their most reliable leather, and I figured a leather with a bit more elasticity might allow me to go for a close fit without risking difficulty moving. It was also $100 cheaper, which didn’t hurt. The one downside is that goat never seems quite as richly black as other leathers but overall I’m happy with the choice—I’ll save the horse for when I find a Cal in my size!

P.S. Are the mouton cuffs a little way up the sleeves on the original? You can see where mine are from the slight bulge. Curious as to why, maybe to allow for a watch or to stop them getting wet/dirty?

 

[PilotJens]

Sleeve shape before and after "break-in"/ weird exercises

 

[PilotJens]

The more I look at some vintage jackets the more I feel like the sleeve shape is somewhat more comfortable because they cloned a 30 year old already worked in jacket which already conformed to someone's body before .So a repro already has a broken in sleeve

 

[spectre6000]

I've wondered about exactly that quite a bit recently. How much of the three dimensional shape is in the pattern, how much is the leather conforming to the wearer's arms and movement. Looking at vintage patterns, they do have some curve to them rather than being two straight rectangles like some cheaper patterns. I'm not sure how much that gives though. One thing I've seen that really has my interest is a trio of DARTS in the elbow. Absolute and intentional three dimensionality in that very critical area. It was very interesting, and I may use it myself on a future project.

 

[Marc mndt]

How much of the three dimensional shape is in the pattern,

About 95%. A 5* pant leg sleeve will never turn into this...

 

[ton312]

About 95%. A 5* pant leg sleeve will never turn into this...

View attachment 599701 View attachment 599702

Indeed. A 5 Star sleeve can’t even sit that way flat without being bent by hand, and even then it’s clearly not right. They can’t do sleeves. They just can’t do them. For whatever reason. They just plain can’t. Some better than others but always wrong.

 

[JMax]

Indeed. A 5 Star sleeve can’t even sit that way flat without being bent by hand, and even then it’s clearly not right. They can’t do sleeves. They just can’t do them. For whatever reason. They just plain can’t. Some better than others but always wrong.

5* vests is the way to go then?

 

[El Marro]

5* vests is the way to go then?

that or 5* leather pants

 

[Aloysius]

I've wondered about exactly that quite a bit recently. How much of the three dimensional shape is in the pattern, how much is the leather conforming to the wearer's arms and movement. Looking at vintage patterns, they do have some curve to them rather than being two straight rectangles like some cheaper patterns. I'm not sure how much that gives though. One thing I've seen that really has my interest is a trio of DARTS in the elbow. Absolute and intentional three dimensionality in that very critical area. It was very interesting, and I may use it myself on a future project.

(Not sarcasm.)

You're very into putting darts in places where darts aren’t normally used! Surely if it was advisable it would have been a common thing in tailoring. Darting a sleeve would wreck mobility. No need to reinvent the wheel; just study what good patterners already do.

 

[spectre6000]

Darts are used all the time, and I have a folder full of photos of jackets with them. My favorite backs are Californians (the above photo happens to be on my desktop right now), which are extremely plain save for darting. I think they're interesting in a way that adds some visual interest while also creating a three dimensional shape. It's a design feature I'm sort of approaching as the theme of an otherwise very simple set of panels. It's the only detail on the single-piece back, and I got rid of the breast pocket(s) in favor of darts creating shape to the shoulders. You can get the same three dimensionality with the seams in the design; i.e. shoulder yoke. One of the reasons to break the back panel up into smaller pieces is to be able to more efficiently utilize the material; a single big piece is more expensive/results in more waste/is harder to place on the hide than a bunch of little pieces. I like the simplicity of it though. To use a single large panel, you have to get your dimension elsewhere. That means darts.

My daily wear jacket is the one with the darted sleeves. Mobility is not affected. In fact, I never noticed them over probably 5 years of wear until I started really paying attention in regard to my recent interest in this project. I haven't had time yet to try to trace a sleeve to see exactly what they did. It's clear that it gives dimension to it, and it's also a bit of visual interest that would be on theme with the rest of the jacket.

 

[ton312]

View attachment 599793

Darts are used all the time, and I have a folder full of photos of jackets with them. My favorite backs are Californians (the above photo happens to be on my desktop right now), which are extremely plain save for darting. I think they're interesting in a way that adds some visual interest while also creating a three dimensional shape. It's a design feature I'm sort of approaching as the theme of an otherwise very simple set of panels. It's the only detail on the single-piece back, and I got rid of the breast pocket(s) in favor of darts creating shape to the shoulders. You can get the same three dimensionality with the seams in the design; i.e. shoulder yoke. One of the reasons to break the back panel up into smaller pieces is to be able to more efficiently utilize the material; a single big piece is more expensive/results in more waste/is harder to place on the hide than a bunch of little pieces. I like the simplicity of it though. To use a single large panel, you have to get your dimension elsewhere. That means darts.

My daily wear jacket is the one with the darted sleeves. Mobility is not affected. In fact, I never noticed them over probably 5 years of wear until I started really paying attention in regard to my recent interest in this project. I haven't had time yet to try to trace a sleeve to see exactly what they did. It's clear that it gives dimension to it, and it's also a bit of visual interest that would be on theme with the rest of the jacket.

The example above serves no purpose other than visual. It’s a pleated back. It has no bearing on the jackets functionality. It’s a purely decorative visual element. The only sleeves I’ve seen with “darts” are the newer Carhartt stuff. Are you planning a sleeve with these?

IMO this won’t translate well in leather. You’ll end with a wacky bulging mess. I actually think it looks bad on canvas. Like gills or something. Wholly unnecessary. These appeared when the jackets were no longer produced in the USA. Shocker.

 

[Aloysius]

View attachment 599793

Darts are used all the time, and I have a folder full of photos of jackets with them. My favorite backs are Californians (the above photo happens to be on my desktop right now), which are extremely plain save for darting. I think they're interesting in a way that adds some visual interest while also creating a three dimensional shape. It's a design feature I'm sort of approaching as the theme of an otherwise very simple set of panels. It's the only detail on the single-piece back, and I got rid of the breast pocket(s) in favor of darts creating shape to the shoulders. You can get the same three dimensionality with the seams in the design; i.e. shoulder yoke. One of the reasons to break the back panel up into smaller pieces is to be able to more efficiently utilize the material; a single big piece is more expensive/results in more waste/is harder to place on the hide than a bunch of little pieces. I like the simplicity of it though. To use a single large panel, you have to get your dimension elsewhere. That means darts.

My daily wear jacket is the one with the darted sleeves. Mobility is not affected. In fact, I never noticed them over probably 5 years of wear until I started really paying attention in regard to my recent interest in this project. I haven't had time yet to try to trace a sleeve to see exactly what they did. It's clear that it gives dimension to it, and it's also a bit of visual interest that would be on theme with the rest of the jacket.

I would call these pleats, not darts. There's a stitch there that's being used to gather a larger amount of material into a smaller opening. A dart simply nips in material. In other words, it does the exact opposite thing.


Show me the darted coat sleeve, ideally leather. In years of coats of all kinds and materials, including ones from African and Asian cultures, I have never encountered that.

 

[El Marro]

P.S. Are the mouton cuffs a little way up the sleeves on the original? You can see where mine are from the slight bulge. Curious as to why, maybe to allow for a watch or to stop them getting wet/dirty?

I just looked at the sleeves on my vintage Cal and the mouton strips begin about 2” up the sleeve.

 

[torfjord]

The LAPD arrived, finally! As I mentioned, recent experiences on this thread had me quite pessimistic about the likely outcome, but maybe that expectation management was a good thing, as I’m pretty delighted with the result—initial thoughts below.

The good:

I think they pretty much nailed the fit. Based on my last experience I specced the smallest I thought I could get away with, keeping the proportions in line with their own pattern grading (essentially, it has custom measurements only in the sense that it’s 1.5 steps below their smallest listed size). The measurements are all either dead on or up to half a cm larger, which is fine by me—I think I’d anticipated that they would skew bigger if anything, and I’m glad I was right!

The hide is thick and smells good, in a new leather way. I asked for premium goat, minimum 1.2mm as with my previous 5* order, and it’s over a pound heavier and feels much thicker than that jacket. Which one is closer to 1.2mm I have no idea. For further comparison this jacket weighs a hair less than my 90s Schott 618 (in 36) and is almost a pound heavier than my 70s Schott-Beck 999 (in 34). While as heavy as the 618, this feels much easier to wear, due to the suppleness of the goatskin, and mobility feels good despite the lack of gussets.

This isn’t really about 5*, but I love the pattern, and getting it in the right size it works better than I thought it would. I noticed on their size chart that the width seems to drop faster than the length, meaning that the smaller sizes are maybe a little less short in the body. This is short, but it covers the top half of my belt loops at the front, so feels wearable.

The questionable:

Not too much to my eye TBH. It’s a shame the belt loops went on later as it would have looked neater if there were only one row of stitching, but I guess this means that if they ever come loose they won’t take the hem stitching with them (as has happened on my Beck). The belt loops also seem to be a different and thinner hide to the body of the jacket but maybe this is standard, and I’m overthinking because I know they were a later addition!

The belt loops on the back are higher than those on the front. I don’t know if this is a pattern thing or sloppy grading—I can get a belt through them but it’s certainly angled downwards.

Those lapels are huge, which I kind of love, but I wonder if they should have been reduced a tiny bit as it’s such a small size, as I think they’re basically the same size as on the much larger original. I’ve seen tiny Cals with them smaller than this, and about this size, so I think it’s not historically inaccurate, but I might have requested a tiny bit off them—but then we’re into custom speccing territory. I feel the same about the back yoke—I think I’d like a bit more of a point, but the original is the original!

In any case, my partner took one look and pronounced this jacket “your best one”, so I’m happy. Would a Cal be even better? Yes, I’m sure it would if I could find one that fit this well, but I think this will do nicely in the meantime.

Thanks to @Bahabp100 for providing the original jacket and @Canuck Panda for testing out a second build!

Pics:

View attachment 599356 View attachment 599357 View attachment 599358 View attachment 599359 View attachment 599360 View attachment 599361 View attachment 599362

That jacket looks really good! The way with them is to send them a jacket to copy.

Indeed. A 5 Star sleeve can’t even sit that way flat without being bent by hand, and even then it’s clearly not right. They can’t do sleeves. They just can’t do them. For whatever reason. They just plain can’t. Some better than others but always wrong.

When they have an existing jacket in hand to copy they seem to manage sleeves.

 

[Marc mndt]

They can’t do sleeves. They just can’t do them. For whatever reason. They just plain can’t.

When they have an existing jacket in hand to copy they seem to manage sleeves.

Perfect 3D sleeve on this Guide Master Wolf copy.

@spectre6000 3D without darts.

 

[PilotJens]

Isn't the reason for a half belt the fact that it gets closer to your lower back then your shoulders? So it hugs your body and prevent it from shifting up? So am these pleats are "useless" .
And the long gussets on the back help your arms moving forward.