Five Star Leather Jackets

[TheDonEffect]

Indeed. The military repro crowd is pleased as punch and it seems to be his bread and butter. Easy enough. Make a leather bag and add some knits. Throw in a pair of patch pockets and mouton to taste. LOL. Sorry not sorry. Not to say they can’t look good. They can and do.

I’d prefer he focus on the much more stylish and intricate civilian range. The talent is there. The eye is almost there.

Agreed, it'd be nice to have a quarter or third priced Aero option. I think he's figuring out his stylish options and frankly the majority of customers aren't interested in chromexel leathers or understand the nuances between the leathers we love here.

The reality though is that Schott and Vansons primarily just sell black steer aniline or some other ubiquitous leather. Gotta wonder how many stock design with his primarily leathers jackets he can make in the time it takes for him to make one custom jacket.

I mean he used to post here, not anymore.

 

[Canuck Panda]

There is an upcharge for the horsehide though right?

 

[born113]

There is an upcharge for the horsehide though right?

I paid +100$

 

[Canuck Panda]

OK that's good to know Thanks. The horse up charge still the same as last year.
@born113 Which one did you get? Half belt?

 

[born113]

@born113 Which one did you get? Half belt?

Yes this.
I'm waiting for the fact that I made a mistake with the size with quiet horror. But maybe I'm not wrong.

 

[Aloysius]

I think may be shying away from FL folks a little because the CHL, let's just call it what it is now, was largely a waste of time. He must've thought everyone wanted crazy thick, crazy stiff leather, and found out quickly it was a headache not worth pursuing.

Good to hear. The GIVE ME THE THICKEST LEATHER POSSIBLE cultists are a pox on everyone else– the time and opportunity cost of making their stuff affects everything else a maker can put out (and in the end they never like anything anyway, except the Storse jackets back in the day).

I'm not inherently opposed to stiff leathers but it's an extreme (machismo driven?) niche that presents itself as the default. Despite how vocal they are on the internet, there are likely few enough of them in actual numbers that they can all get Lost Worlds to make them belt leather jackets.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

If Shawn took two days off from answering our stupid questions and read up on TFL, I's sure he could come up with 5 quality leather options for us within a month

 

[Aloysius]

If Shawn took two days off from answering our stupid questions and read up on TFL, I's sure he could come up with 5 quality leather options for us within a month

Think about the time, labor, and money it must have cost him to make that belt leather for the girth enthusiasts.

There's this Japanese tailor in New York who uses vintage sewing machines to make jeans that are accurate to each period. The jeans made on the mid-19th century machine cost thrice as much, because they take three times as long to make [meaning he can do two fewer pairs in that same time], and he actually has a note on his website telling people only to order that item if they specifically want it.

Shawn should do something similar for "CHL".

 

[born113]

More leathers... raise prices... Very few people in the world will pay more for "Made in Pakistan" items. I have nothing against 5*. But this is an objective reality. It seems to me that 5* have already found their niche in the market. And if they can do better and more expensive, then only under a different name and in another country.

 

[Aloysius]

More leathers... raise prices... Very few people in the world will pay more for "Made in Pakistan" items. I have nothing against 5*. But this is an objective reality. It seems to me that 5* have already found their niche in the market. And if they can do better and more expensive, then only under a different name and in another country.

?

It’s that or cancel the “CHL” products. They take several days longer to make, to cater to an obscure leather fetish that will pay.

 

[TheDonEffect]

Good to hear. The GIVE ME THE THICKEST LEATHER POSSIBLE cultists are a pox on everyone else– the time and opportunity cost of making their stuff affects everything else a maker can put out (and in the end they never like anything anyway, except the Storse jackets back in the day).

I'm not inherently opposed to stiff leathers but it's an extreme (machismo driven?) niche that presents itself as the default. Despite how vocal they are on the internet, there are likely few enough of them in actual numbers that they can all get Lost Worlds to make them belt leather jackets.

100%. Things like 6oz leather, not skiving folded edges, 8 stitches per inch, impossible perfect fits, etc, I think Shawn learned quickly there is no broad appeal. As I said, look at what leather makers like Schott and Vanson use.

 

[Hobbes1]

If Shawn took two days off from answering our stupid questions and read up on TFL, I's sure he could come up with 5 quality leather options for us within a month

This goes back to having an updated website. If he accurately represented his wares and the available customizations, I would bet stupid question volume would drop by 80%.
As far as thick leather for jackets, it's niche yes. The problem is two fold: end user won't know what they will actually get unless they roll the dice. Also, Shawn should come out and say this is what it will take to make this jacket...are you sure it's what you want? Thick leather for jackets is fine IF it is not untreated, unbroken belt or baseball glove leather. That is back to accurately describing your wares on the website. A few of us took the hit so that others of you can avoid it and/or get to take your shots from the Cheap Seats. Just my $0.02

 

[TheDonEffect]

This goes back to having an updated website. If he accurately represented his wares and the available customizations, I would bet stupid question volume would drop by 80%.
As far as thick leather for jackets, it's niche yes. The problem is two fold: end user won't know what they will actually get unless they roll the dice. Also, Shawn should come out and say this is what it will take to make this jacket...are you sure it's what you want? Thick leather for jackets is fine IF it is not untreated, unbroken belt or baseball glove leather. That is back to accurately describing your wares on the website. A few of us took the hit so that others of you can avoid it and/or get to take your shots from the Cheap Seats. Just my $0.02

Lets not forget that the chl was based on a 5 or 6oz Horween CXL that was sent in for a custom job. Shawn replicated it pretty admirably for a first try thinking this was something popular, few to several people bought it during the hype only to realize that yeah super thick leather is tough, pun intended.

I think the whole experiment left Shawn scratching his head. Consider this, what would've happened if we rewound the tape and instead of a 6oz cxl he instead got a 2-3 oz Badalassi, or shinki, or even a fqhh cxl? I think we would be at a different place.

Cxl is the equivalent to 18-20 oz raw denim in a world that primarily wears 10-14 oz denim, mostly pre-broken in and alot with stretch. The CHL was based on an even crazier 28+ oz denim. Didn't matter who made it, aside from a niche crowd most people won't like it.

Yeah his website could be better, but the chl was a small batch experimental offering which I'm sure he's happy be didn't nasd produce and offer on a larger scale.

Btw, I purchased a CHL jacket as well, so I was one of the guinea pigs and not just someone pelting fruit from the cheap seats, further I don't buy a ton of jackets either so that failed experiment hurt.

With that said I don't fault 5*, the jacket and leather especially was beautiful. Seriously, the brown CHL color is probably my favorite brown, his construction was great and could make 1k makers blush. So while his camera and website may be lacking, what I received was beautiful. Under promise over deliver perhaps. But the leather is what it is.

Like you don't see field or thedi using these crazy thick hides, pouring through all the thedis and fields it's almost like they go out of their day to avoid leathers that don't at least feel pleasing from the start vs having totekl customers just endure it for several months, it'll get better I promise.

 

[Marc mndt]

Like you don't see field or thedi using these crazy thick hides, pouring through all the thedis and fields it's almost like they go out of their day to avoid leathers that don't at least feel pleasing from the start vs having totekl customers just endure it for several months, it'll get better I promise.

I never understood the allure of crazy thick jacket leather. It looks weird (doesn't drape), it's uncomfortable, it's impossible to work with for the machinist. Lots of cons. What exactly are the pros? It's indestructible I guess, but so is 1.5 mm hh.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

This goes back to having an updated website. If he accurately represented his wares and the available customizations, I would bet stupid question volume would drop by 80%.
As far as thick leather for jackets, it's niche yes. The problem is two fold: end user won't know what they will actually get unless they roll the dice. Also, Shawn should come out and say this is what it will take to make this jacket...are you sure it's what you want? Thick leather for jackets is fine IF it is not untreated, unbroken belt or baseball glove leather. That is back to accurately describing your wares on the website. A few of us took the hit so that others of you can avoid it and/or get to take your shots from the Cheap Seats. Just my $0.02

Well, I'm five jackets deep and pretty much all the jackets have been better than the website suggests both in construction and leather quality, so I guess a lot of people buying jackets get pleasantly surprised as well. Having TFL work together with Shawn to make better and more usable leather options for the styles we like would probably yield great results. I have not seen the recent horse and steerhides in person (have the steer on order) but if I were Shawn, I'd try to emulate the leathers @Hh121 sent in and get them down to a nice 1,2-1,4mm and be done with brown and black forever.

 

[ton312]

Yeah my interest in super heavy stiff leathers has passed. Shawn' CHL was part of the reason. It was WAY too much. I like thick leather. Thick leather, interestingly enough, need not neccessarily be all that heavy and certainly not all that stiff. CXL is probably the last leather I'd pick for a jacket now, which is a huge shift for me. But after amassing a decent number of vintage original pieces, CXL leaves much to be desired. I do still believe it's a beautiful hide, but it is a far cry from my favorite.

 

[Hh121]

Guess I am the only weird guy here, lol!!

 

[Canuck Panda]

Thick leather can work. Soft drapey thicker leather all day any day.

Also agree Shawn's goatskin jackets punches way above its weight in terms of what I got for the money. And I have high hopes / expectations for his house horsehide.

The CHL was a learning curve. I still have two jackets in that. The temper of the leather is just not right the first time around. I believe Shawn used the natural Latigo HH121 first sent him as a reference and that was already stiffer than CXL. It is not so much the thickness but the temper of the leather.

But I also agree, leave the thick moto leather to the US makers. Everything is already there, the tannery, pattern...etc. It makes very little economical sense to outsource the 5oz moto leather for the time being.

All these leather below are chrome tanned (or veg retan), at least 4.5oz (1.8mm) up to 5.75oz (2.3mm). But all of them are "glovey to soft" in temper spec. For comparison CXL temper is medium soft, so 1.5 times stiffer than the glovey soft. When it gets soft enough it will drape just fine. The proven police patterns are also treasures of the US makers east or west coast.

4.5oz

5oz +

1.8mm

5oz plus (The thickest and softest leather I have, wears like a thick towel short robe)

 

[Canuck Panda]

Guess I am the only weird guy here, lol!!

No you are not. The problem was Shawn based the whole CHL off the Latigo you first sent him, but started at the stiffest end. If he used your CXL as a base and went softer than that everything would have worked. In hindsight...

 

[Hobbes1]

Well, I'm five jackets deep and pretty much all the jackets have been better than the website suggests both in construction and leather quality, so I guess a lot of people buying jackets get pleasantly surprised as well. Having TFL work together with Shawn to make better and more usable leather options for the styles we like would probably yield great results. I have not seen the recent horse and steerhides in person (have the steer on order) but if I were Shawn, I'd try to emulate the leathers @Hh121 sent in and get them down to a nice 1,2-1,4mm and be done with brown and black forever.

This incoming HH jacket is #4 for me. At present, I am 1 for 3 so this is probably going to be my last, at least for the time being, from 5*. The first (a year ago or so) was a steerhide that is super squeaky...not exactly plasticky...but some sort of top coating that chips off leaving a sort of caramel color poking through. I would never have purchased this one if I knew what I was getting. It's my own fault as I was (still am) learning what I like in the way of hides and what questions to ask.

Second is Premium Goat and that is a great jacket. I wear it regularly.

Third is the now infamous CHL. If I knew in advance that it can't be broken in, I would have skipped it. Some previous experiences related on here by other members didn't dissuade me so it's again, my fault. Having said that, seems to me that Shawn as the seller, might have been inclined to discuss it a little more with those ordering to relate up front that this would require two people to make it and much longer putting it together due to the unforgiving nature of the hide. I mean, when they are handling a hide like this, it's obvious even to rookie like me that it just isn't really going to result in a comfortably wearable garment. The neck fold alone is as stiff as iron. I specified the internal pocket be on the jacket right and they put it on the jacket left...so there are three pockets stacked on top of each other. It's on me that I didn't insist on them fixing that but the result is what I'd imagine Kevlar would be like. Anyway, it's water under the bridge now.

I'm hoping that jacket #4 will be a winner. I'd like to go out on a high note it possible

Some of my recent posts might come off as complainy but I'm really not trying to be a whiner and I'm planning on shutting up after this. I hope that Shawn sees some of this discussion and maybe it will lead to future improvements that gratify all involved. I'm in total agreement that Shawn or any jacket maker could learn a lot about what non-WW2 focused people are interested in by coming here.