Bahabp100
Practically Family
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View attachment 359214 @Bahabp100 Just to check the wording on the leather. Do you mean the fur side or the smooth leather side when you say black shearling? Also I am not sure if Shawn has black fur, I am not sure. And his grey mouton is more like grey brown.
View attachment 359208
you don't really need special snap to make back to back set, just get small eyelet that fit into the center hole of the snap so you don't need the cap, then you can combine male to female, male to male, female to female back to back just punch eyelet through both. chose eyelet that doesn't come with ring for the other side, pick one that just flare open to make it flatter and not hindering the snap's function, depending on your leather thickness you might want to practice a bit on scrap leather, to find out if you need to file down the length of the eyelet a bit or not, some leather have a lot of give (spongy) and some are not when punched.View attachment 359209 Would this snap work for reversible? Anyone know the “name” of this style snap from the Schott 141 cafe racer ?
When CXL is warmed up, it becomes pliable leather. The CHL isn't stiff like cardboard from the start, but it also does not melt into pliable leather, it just remains its shape, like rubber retains its shape.If Horween CXL is cardboard/paper, then CHL is rubber
I felt the same with my dark brown CHL jacket.In short, 5* made me a beautiful jacket that due to no fault of their own, I can't wear.
This quote should be pinned up top. If you want CXL, buy an Aero.So my advice would be stick to their stock, soft leathers, since the fit will be much more forgiving, the engineering issues will not be noticeable, and I think you'll be extremely satisfied. But if you want a more "special" leather like a CXL, just pay the premium.
New jacket day, my Cossack with detachable hood arrived in the skived down dark brown CHL leather.
So let's get down to what most of you are likely interested in, the leather.
The color is beautiful, dark brown with red undertones making it border on Bordeaux, dark burgundy, but still firmly brown. Imo, the color is perfect and is among the nicer browns I've seen, anything beyond this point is strictly splitting hairs or personal preference, I cannot find fault in the color.
The sheen/shininess of the leather is comparable to the more dull batches of CXL than the shinier batches. I've seen a ton of CXL now at this point, and they vary, so mark this under the more dull, matte finishes. This is not a negative point, it still has a nice glow to it which I like, gives me high end baseball glove vibes, but it's not the high end Nieman Marcus luxury brand leather sheen some may like. I dig it though.
Graining/character of the leather appears that it will get notably better in time. I can see on the larger, flat panels that didn't require much manipulation during the manufacturing process that it's flat in the smooth sense with no character. However with some manipulation the graining comes out nicely and has the same sort of character you get with Horween leathers. Nice tight, wrinkle type grains vs pebbling grains if that makes any sense. And the leather has a very slight pull up effect as well. I can't tell if the imperfections are from the hide or just from the manufacturing process, but having handled my share of stiffer CXL type leathers, it's par for the course and lends to the rugged nature of the leather. I'd say the CXL gives more dramatic effect, but again I'm on day 2 with this CHL leather, I don't think the ultimate payoff will be as good, but still very good. So all in all, good marks here.
Drape, ounce for ounce it's about has heavy as my skived Horween CXL, but it's much less stiff out the box. It is is stiff, but it will not stand on its own. My Horween car jacket will stand on its own unbuttoned before I broke it in, and I can still sorta get to stand, but this jacket will not.
But it doesn't mean it's more comfortable or pliable per se. If Horween CXL is cardboard/paper, then CHL is rubber. CXL will bend and crease, sharply in fact, and you can sorta feel the fibers breaking and then giving up. So CXL fights you until it doesn't. This CHL won't fight you as hard upfront, but it also feels more stubborn, and reminds me of hazmat suits/gloves. So upfront it's moderately easier to wear, but longer term before full break in, it's going to be a battle of wills.
So I did get it to break in a little, but instead of tight sharp crease people love about CXL, CHL has more rounded creases, and I think this is a battle that will take some time to get to a point where it'll stop pinching and such.
Scent, it's pretty generic, definitely does not have the sweet qualities of the leathers we love, it has a very generic manufacturered scent to it, it's not chemically or offensive, reminds me of fake leather smell, takes me back to shopping at the night markets in SE Asia. So not unpleasant or offensive, but I won't be taking a detour to the closest just to take a whiff. I love the smell of my Horween stuff, or my buttero wallet, heck I even like my naked aniline stock cowhide leather jacket, this is not inspiring.
So in summary about the leather, color is great, graining is good, drape and wearability in some ways is better out the box but beyond that may not be as good vs Horween CXL.
On to the build.
Craftsmanship is good, actually really good especially considering the price. The workmanship I cannot really find fault, I mean sure if I was being nitpicky I can point out a few slightly wandering stitches or whatever else, but honestly I'm perfectly satisfied and feel I received a well made product.
The issue is with the engineering of the jacket. Stiff leather is perhaps not their forte and it shows up throughout the jacket. The internal leather collar bunches up because of the stiff leather, causing the collar to not settle. There's no structural support to the actual collar in itself, making it hard to lay in a consistent manner. The internal panel lining the area under the button/holes also have the same bunching effect which requires me to constantly straighten it, and is perhaps the reason why cossacks typically have the cotton liner go all the way to the edge. I'm sure with a soft, pliable leather, these are non issues, but with a flexible, bouncy, rubbery leather, these issues manifest. So a bit TMI, but the way the aforementioned interior leather panel is orientated, along with the zippered pocket, yeah it keeps brushing and catching on my, ahem, sensitive points on my chest. The action back has almost no depth to it, giving barely any extra movement rendering it pointless, and it's cut too high so it's actually pretty pointless. I think there may be .5 inch of fold, but because the opening is so small, it's really only useful if I'm angling my arm to shake someone's hand, and not reaching forward for handlebars.
As far as fit goes, the ownership is on me since it's my measurements, and they executed it to my specs. And that's sorta the rub here, going with one of the established makers, they know how to take your measurements, look at you, and then know how to apply their secret sauce to make a wearable garment while making it drape accordingly.
I took the measurements of an existing jacket that I fit comfortably in, now I'll be the first to admit that knowing how stiff this leather is going to be I knew I was really rolling the dice by trying to make it fit more fitted, and mine came up snake eyes.
So my better judgement was right, there's alot of ownership on the customer's side to send the right measurements. Actually, measurements is the wrong word here, it's specifications. There's a reason why when you get a tailored suit made, you often go for multiple fittings. Getting measured is easy, building to those specs is easy, but there's always other factors involved, Rolling the shoulders forward, or back, shoulder slope angle, where to roll out some stitching to balloon certain areas, where to tuck, etc. And then understanding the material you're working with, etc. Again, this is not a fault on 5*, they built it as contracted. But there will be some trial and error, and the pages upon pages on these forums reinforces that point.
So in conclusion, I got a jacket with pretty nice leather, well made, but has engineering issues, and doesn't fit me in a way that makes it usable. So while it's a relatively inexpensive jacket when comparing to all the other makers, it is an expensive lesson, one that I have no interest in repeating. In short, 5* made me a beautiful jacket that due to no fault of their own, I can't wear.
So my advice would be stick to their stock, soft leathers, since the fit will be much more forgiving, the engineering issues will not be noticeable, and I think you'll be extremely satisfied. But if you want a more "special" leather like a CXL, just pay the premium.
Apologies for the crap picture. View attachment 359898 View attachment 359899
Lovely colour .I noticed the same rubbery tendency on the normal russet steer .But I can assure you that it goes away either with use or with a thicker coating of a thin leather oil (not mink oil because that would rot)
My v1 Cossack got tumbled 8h in the dryer on high heat while being wet .Now it is buttery soft and my Daily Cossack V2 got worn and after conditioning the rubberynes went away .
Excellent write up and I think you exactly summed up what I tried to say over several pages of this thread many months ago. Having gone through the Lewis Leather "customization" process, I understand better you can't just rattle off a bunch of numbers and have everything come together. They have certain formulas/ratios of you do this to waist and then XYZ needs to happen to the chest, etc. Now I'm not trying to compare LL with 5*, and in addition to design utilization, LL is trying to maintain a "look", but just fundamentally on a design level there's some hocus pocus that happens in the transition areas with the numbers that most of us are not equipped to understand. And as you noted, CXL or CHL or whatever is not going to be forgiving. I think some of us had better luck with the goat/steer/buffalo that had some forgiveness.
Most things are a double edged sword. What we love about 5* is the ability to create literally anything. And I've mentioned this before, I don't know if it's a cultural thing, or just wanting to make the customer "happy" or they don't know better, but there isn't that level of "hey, you sure you want to do this because ...." That probably would save a lot of pain, but then again, at $300ish, what do you expect.
I'd have no problem buying some flight jackets or the shearling vests I think are the real hidden gem here. But after my first frankenstein jacket and some other qc stuff, not worth it to hash it all up again, I decided long ago to look elsewhere. For me at least, if I really want a Buco J100, then I was just better off buying one. I know I'm lucky in some ways of being able to fit into many OTR sizes, so I won't pretend that that doesn't help the decision process. I totally get the lure if you need custom sizing or on the hunt for a grail jacket, especially at that price point. But man, two or three misses, and in many cases you could have bought the real thing.
New jacket day, my Cossack with detachable hood arrived in the skived down dark brown CHL leather.
So let's get down to what most of you are likely interested in, the leather.
The color is beautiful, dark brown with red undertones making it border on Bordeaux, dark burgundy, but still firmly brown. Imo, the color is perfect and is among the nicer browns I've seen, anything beyond this point is strictly splitting hairs or personal preference, I cannot find fault in the color.
The sheen/shininess of the leather is comparable to the more dull batches of CXL than the shinier batches. I've seen a ton of CXL now at this point, and they vary, so mark this under the more dull, matte finishes. This is not a negative point, it still has a nice glow to it which I like, gives me high end baseball glove vibes, but it's not the high end Nieman Marcus luxury brand leather sheen some may like. I dig it though.
Graining/character of the leather appears that it will get notably better in time. I can see on the larger, flat panels that didn't require much manipulation during the manufacturing process that it's flat in the smooth sense with no character. However with some manipulation the graining comes out nicely and has the same sort of character you get with Horween leathers. Nice tight, wrinkle type grains vs pebbling grains if that makes any sense. And the leather has a very slight pull up effect as well. I can't tell if the imperfections are from the hide or just from the manufacturing process, but having handled my share of stiffer CXL type leathers, it's par for the course and lends to the rugged nature of the leather. I'd say the CXL gives more dramatic effect, but again I'm on day 2 with this CHL leather, I don't think the ultimate payoff will be as good, but still very good. So all in all, good marks here.
Drape, ounce for ounce it's about has heavy as my skived Horween CXL, but it's much less stiff out the box. It is is stiff, but it will not stand on its own. My Horween car jacket will stand on its own unbuttoned before I broke it in, and I can still sorta get to stand, but this jacket will not.
But it doesn't mean it's more comfortable or pliable per se. If Horween CXL is cardboard/paper, then CHL is rubber. CXL will bend and crease, sharply in fact, and you can sorta feel the fibers breaking and then giving up. So CXL fights you until it doesn't. This CHL won't fight you as hard upfront, but it also feels more stubborn, and reminds me of hazmat suits/gloves. So upfront it's moderately easier to wear, but longer term before full break in, it's going to be a battle of wills.
So I did get it to break in a little, but instead of tight sharp crease people love about CXL, CHL has more rounded creases, and I think this is a battle that will take some time to get to a point where it'll stop pinching and such.
Scent, it's pretty generic, definitely does not have the sweet qualities of the leathers we love, it has a very generic manufacturered scent to it, it's not chemically or offensive, reminds me of fake leather smell, takes me back to shopping at the night markets in SE Asia. So not unpleasant or offensive, but I won't be taking a detour to the closest just to take a whiff. I love the smell of my Horween stuff, or my buttero wallet, heck I even like my naked aniline stock cowhide leather jacket, this is not inspiring.
So in summary about the leather, color is great, graining is good, drape and wearability in some ways is better out the box but beyond that may not be as good vs Horween CXL.
On to the build.
Craftsmanship is good, actually really good especially considering the price. The workmanship I cannot really find fault, I mean sure if I was being nitpicky I can point out a few slightly wandering stitches or whatever else, but honestly I'm perfectly satisfied and feel I received a well made product.
The issue is with the engineering of the jacket. Stiff leather is perhaps not their forte and it shows up throughout the jacket. The internal leather collar bunches up because of the stiff leather, causing the collar to not settle. There's no structural support to the actual collar in itself, making it hard to lay in a consistent manner. The internal panel lining the area under the button/holes also have the same bunching effect which requires me to constantly straighten it, and is perhaps the reason why cossacks typically have the cotton liner go all the way to the edge. I'm sure with a soft, pliable leather, these are non issues, but with a flexible, bouncy, rubbery leather, these issues manifest. So a bit TMI, but the way the aforementioned interior leather panel is orientated, along with the zippered pocket, yeah it keeps brushing and catching on my, ahem, sensitive points on my chest. The action back has almost no depth to it, giving barely any extra movement rendering it pointless, and it's cut too high so it's actually pretty pointless. I think there may be .5 inch of fold, but because the opening is so small, it's really only useful if I'm angling my arm to shake someone's hand, and not reaching forward for handlebars.
As far as fit goes, the ownership is on me since it's my measurements, and they executed it to my specs. And that's sorta the rub here, going with one of the established makers, they know how to take your measurements, look at you, and then know how to apply their secret sauce to make a wearable garment while making it drape accordingly.
I took the measurements of an existing jacket that I fit comfortably in, now I'll be the first to admit that knowing how stiff this leather is going to be I knew I was really rolling the dice by trying to make it fit more fitted, and mine came up snake eyes.
So my better judgement was right, there's alot of ownership on the customer's side to send the right measurements. Actually, measurements is the wrong word here, it's specifications. There's a reason why when you get a tailored suit made, you often go for multiple fittings. Getting measured is easy, building to those specs is easy, but there's always other factors involved, Rolling the shoulders forward, or back, shoulder slope angle, where to roll out some stitching to balloon certain areas, where to tuck, etc. And then understanding the material you're working with, etc. Again, this is not a fault on 5*, they built it as contracted. But there will be some trial and error, and the pages upon pages on these forums reinforces that point.
So in conclusion, I got a jacket with pretty nice leather, well made, but has engineering issues, and doesn't fit me in a way that makes it usable. So while it's a relatively inexpensive jacket when comparing to all the other makers, it is an expensive lesson, one that I have no interest in repeating. In short, 5* made me a beautiful jacket that due to no fault of their own, I can't wear.
So my advice would be stick to their stock, soft leathers, since the fit will be much more forgiving, the engineering issues will not be noticeable, and I think you'll be extremely satisfied. But if you want a more "special" leather like a CXL, just pay the premium.
Apologies for the crap picture. View attachment 359898 View attachment 359899
Very interesting !!Be careful of excessive formaldehyde in those cheap price leather.