Film Noir?

[Dr Doran]

Paddy, all we need is a narrator's voice-over furthering the plot a bit .... may I suggest something like, "Night in the City. I took the auto out after my phone call with Jon. Things were happening. Big things. The parking garage yawned blankly like the unmonocled eye of the Monopoly Man. The gleaming steel vehicles flashed by, each holding its secrets, and those concrete walls were hemming me in. Had to get out. Had to get away. I knew where my redemption lay. Time to drive out, to join The Night."

 

[Mike in Seattle]

Paddy, all we need is a narrator's voice-over furthering the plot a bit .... may I suggest something like, "Night in the City. I took the auto out after my phone call with Jon. Things were happening. Big things. The parking garage yawned blankly like the unmonocled eye of the Monopoly Man. The gleaming steel vehicles flashed by, each holding its secrets, and those concrete walls were hemming me in. Had to get out. Had to get away. I knew where my redemption lay. Time to drive out, to join The Night."

Suggestion - mouths yawn & bite, and eyes gape or stare. So perhaps:

The parking garage stared blankly like the unmonocled eye of the Monopoly Man.

The parking garage yawned silently like the unflinching mouth of an alligator lying in wait for its prey.

 

[Dr Doran]

Suggestion - mouths yawn & bite, and eyes gape or stare. So perhaps:

The parking garage stared blankly like the unmonocled eye of the Monopoly Man.

The parking garage yawned silently like the unflinching mouth of an alligator lying in wait for its prey.

Good call. You are right of course: I dashed that off too quickly. I prefer the eye to the mouth. It's more unusual.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

Paddy dear, you didn't try a cigarette or two lit and left burning in an ashtray? Would that work?

I tried to get that 'smokey' feel to the scene and so had incense sticks burning at my feet :eusa_doh: But all it looks like is that my pants are on fire haha!!

So HOW does one get that curling smokey effect for the camera? Guys - I'm a pure novice at this, honestly, this is so cobbled together with desk lamps and stuff, but I do find it interesting!! and FUN.

 

[Wally_Hood]

I just got a copy on DVD of Hell's Half Acre with Marie Windsor, the print is so-so, but it's not too bad. There are so many good movies out there that have not been restored and re-released it's a shame, because eventually it will be too late if the original prints are allowed to deteriorate further.

I had taped that off of an OTA local here in southern California about a million years ago, and really liked it a lot. Now the tape and vcr are gone...

A Hawaiian noir! Wendall Corey isn't exactly the type to carry off a leading noir, unlike a Bogie or Mitchum, but Evelyn Keyes, Marie Windsor, Keye Luke (!), Philip Ahn (another!) et al, make this fun.

May I ask from where did you get the dvd?

 

[Atomic Age]

Very much so. In Kansas City Confidential, it is the police (understandibly) mistaking John Payne's delivery van for the one used in the bank heist. In Criss Cross, it is Burt Lancaster making the mistake of going to the old nightclub the night that Yvonne DeCarlo was there. In The Postman Always Rings Twice, I would say that it was leaving the dead (electrocuted) cat where it died when Garfield and Turner tried to kill her husband in the bath tub (although a case might be made for Turner walking up the mountain her husband's car had just gone over).

Great observations.....I'll add one. In Out of the Past the moment of Robert Mitchum's downfall is:

Kathie Moffat: I didn't know what I was doing. I, I didn't know anything except how much I hated him. But I didn't take anything. I didn't, Jeff. Don't you believe me?

Jeff Bailey: Baby, I don't care.

He is doomed from the moment he says that.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

Good conversation.

To note, not all noir is the result of having made a mistake. Sometimes being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough to set the stage.
Take D.O.A., Scarlet Street, The Big Clock, and Detour as examples.
With the exception of Eddie Robinson trying to cover up a manslaughter rap, the others did nothing but had a bad deal put on them. Picking up a hitchhiker(Detour) or taking certain jobs withing the course of your work (D.O.A.) can be a life or death prospect.

I disagree. The mistake he makes in D.O.A. is taking the woman who loves him for granted. He takes a vacation (he didn't take a job) to the big city to get away from the woman who he considers boring and provincial. It's only later when he knows he is dieing, that he realizes what he has thrown away, but its too late. His restlessness has lead him to his doom.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

I saw The Big Sleep (1946) when I was 16 and I was hooked on film noir. In fact film noir held a gun to my head and forced me to make one. Hopefully it will be coming to a DVD near you someday. Here is a trailer for it that I've put together. I posted this in another thread, but this seems an appropriate place for it also.

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A few of my favorite films noir are,

I Wake Up Screaming (1941) Released about 4 months before The Maltese Falcon, I consider this to be the first real Hollywood film noir. It has all the elements. (Even more so than the Falcon) Doesn't hurt to spend 90 min with Betty Grable either.

He Walked By Night (1948) The first police procedural and a major influence on Dragnet. Jack Webb even has a supporting role in it.

Mystery Street (1950) Here we have CSI, 50 years before CSI. Early starring role by Ricardo Montalban, and beautiful cinematography by John Alton.

The Crooked Way (1949) Good amnesia plot starring John Payne. Again great photography by John Alton.

Slightly Scarlet (1956) Unusual for being in color an in SuperScope. Also for having a female protagonist in Rhonda Fleming. Again photographed by Alton (there is a pattern forming)

Tension (1949) A good little film with Richard Baseheart as a mousy little man who's wife is less than faithful. When she leaves him for another man, he plots his rival's murder. Audrey Totter at her sexy best!

Crime Wave (1954) A nifty, messy little film shot on the streets of L.A. by one of the greats, André De Toth. An early role for Charles Buchinsky, AKA Charles Bronson.

Criss Cross (1949) Robert Siodmak's follow up to The Killers and the first real starring role for Burt Lancaster. Great score by Miklós Rózsa.

The Bribe (1949) Robert Taylor, Vincent Price, John Hodiak and Charles Laughton on a South America island. Plot involves stolen airplane motors, but who cares, Ava Gardner provides the heat. Beautifully photographed.

The Dark Corner (1946) Mark Stevens as the private eye and Lucille Ball as his secretary. Clifton Webb doing more of his shtick from Laura.

Just some off the top of my head.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

There's a lot of good film noir music out there if you search for it. Great background music when having cocktails at home with a few pals.

I loved your clip. Very few people (even in Hollywood) get how to light in B&W these days.

Ironically the kind of music that most people think of when they think film noir (the bluesy saxophone) is not the kind of music that is in most films noir. The films of the 40's and 50's that we think of as film noir, all had very standard melodramatic orchestral scores written by guys like Max Steiner and Miklós Rózsa.

A couple of good examples...

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Jazz didn't become associated with film noir, or detective movies, until Henry Mancini was hired to write the scores for a new TV show called Peter Gunn in 1958. Mancini asked Blake Edwards if he could write a Jazz score. Edwards agreed and the connection between Jazz and tough guys has been in the public's mind ever since.

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Doug

 

[Feraud]

I disagree. The mistake he makes in D.O.A. is taking the woman who loves him for granted. He takes a vacation (he didn't take a job) to the big city to get away from the woman who he considers boring and provincial. It's only later when he knows he is dieing, that he realizes what he has thrown away, but its too late. His restlessness has lead him to his doom.

Doug

It was not Frank Bigelow's restlessness that led to his doom. Bigelow was poisoned because of the work he unknowingly did. The person who poisoned Bigelow knew nothing (nor cared) about his personal relationships. The girlfriend (and Frank's attitude towards her) is incidental to what drives the plot.

Another angle to look at their relationship is, the fact that Frank took his girlfriend for granted can mean he wasn't really that interested in her. We cannot fault him for that. Flings happen. In this case, once Frank knows he is dying, that insignifcant relationship took on greater meaning. His girlfriend became a beacon of hope for him to hold on to.
Most likely had he survived, he would have dumped her.

 

[Atomic Age]

It was not Frank Bigelow's restlessness that led to his doom. Bigelow was poisoned because of the work he unknowingly did. The person who poisoned Bigelow knew nothing (nor cared) about his personal relationships. The girlfriend (and Frank's attitude towards her) is incidental to what drives the plot.

Another angle to look at their relationship is, the fact that Frank took his girlfriend for granted can mean he wasn't really that interested in her. We cannot fault him for that. Flings happen. In this case, once Frank knows he is dying, that insignifcant relationship took on greater meaning. His girlfriend became a beacon of hope for him to hold on to.
Most likely had he survived, he would have dumped her.

Yes while the plot revolves around him knowing something that he was unaware that he knew, but that is really only the MacGuffin of the film. Film noir is often about people who want to break out of their ordinary boring lives. They are attracted to fast living, dangerous living, and taking that step often leads them down a dark path. If he had stayed home its possible that nothing would have happened to him. Its possible that merely by going to San Fransisco, Bigelow made the killer think that he was on to him or suspected that something was out of order.

In 1950's Hollywood, flings didn't just happen. That was a violation of the production code and anyone exhibiting that behavior must be shown as suffering the consequences. The consequence for Frank Bigelow is rather sever, he is killed. Again, yes the plot involves Bigelow having possession of some guilty knowledge, but in the metaphorical sense, which is what film noir is all about, restlessness kill Frank Bigelow.

Doug

 

[Feraud]

If I am reading this right you think if Bigelow had stayed put in his town he would not have been poisoned? I can't say I see the killer's logic in this.. unless we are talking Hollywood films.

 

[Atomic Age]

If I am reading this right you think if Bigelow had stayed put in his town he would not have been poisoned? I can't say I see the killer's logic in this.. unless we are talking Hollywood films.

Of course Hollywood logic never really works in the real world.

However I think its safe to assume that the killer didn't live Bigelow's small desert town. Bigelow chooses to vacation in the city where the killer lives. (coincidence or fate) Of course he doesn't know that the killer lives there and has no idea that anyone would want kill him. He goes there to let loose and party. Had he not been living so "irresponsibly", its likely the killer would never have had the chance to poison him. The killer might have seen Bigalow's presence in San Fransisco as an indication that he knew what was up with the bogus Iridium purchase. Again the metaphor here is that what really killed him was his wandering feet. This is what he is truly guilty of. Film noir protagonists are often guilty of something. Either they choose, or are talked into committing a crime (either a real, or moral crime), or they have some transgression in their past that leaves them tainted, marked by fate to be the fall guy. In film noir everyone is guilty of something.

Now this is a very puritanical point of view, but this is exactly the kind of moral message that Hollywood films were pushing in the early 1950s. The production code wouldn't start being really challenged for at least another 5 years with films like Kiss Me Deadly. Even that film had a hard time getting a wide release.

Doug

 

[Feraud]

Atomic Age you make very good points. I agree with a lot of it but not with others. I still cannot reconcile Frank's poisoner was motivated by the trip to San Francisco. [huh] If a guy wants you dead, he's gonna come and get ya.

 

[Atomic Age]

Atomic Age you make very good points. I agree with a lot of it but not with others. I still cannot reconcile Frank's poisoner was motivated by the trip to San Francisco. [huh] If a guy wants you dead, he's gonna come and get ya.

Maybe he didn't want him dead until he got there and it made him nervous. Perhaps he had only been calling him at his office to try and find out what he knew.

However to be perfectly honest, DOA has such a convoluted plot, that I can't really remember all the twists and turns.

Doug

 

[Widebrim]

However I think its safe to assume that the killer didn't live Bigelow's small desert town. Bigelow chooses to vacation in the city where the killer lives. (coincidence or fate) Of course he doesn't know that the killer lives there and has no idea that anyone would want kill him. He goes there to let loose and party. Had he not been living so "irresponsibly", its likely the killer would never have had the chance to poison him. The killer might have seen Bigalow's presence in San Fransisco as an indication that he knew what was up with the bogus Iridium purchase.
Doug

Glad you're discussing D.O.A., one of my all-time favorite films noir (I just watched it for the third time). Now while it's true that Bigelow's killer (Halliday) didn't live in Banning, he didn't reside in San Francisco, either; he lived in Los Angeles, and worked in the Bradbury building.

 

[Naphtali]

Regarding Henry Mancini's "Peter Gunn" theme as the break-out for jazz scores on television, when were, circa 1950s, "Mike Hammer" (Darren McGavin) and "M Squad" (Lee Marvin) first aired? Hammer had many facets of noir while M Squad was a rough, tough cop show, among the first of its kind. Their themes were every bit as compelling as Gunn's.

 

[Atomic Age]

Regarding Henry Mancini's "Peter Gunn" theme as the break-out for jazz scores on television, when were, circa 1950s, "Mike Hammer" (Darren McGavin) and "M Squad" (Lee Marvin) first aired? Hammer had many facets of noir while M Squad was a rough, tough cop show, among the first of its kind. Their themes were every bit as compelling as Gunn's.

Mike Hammer was 56, and M Squad was 57. Yes they had jazz influenced scores M Squad in particular. All three shows aired around the same time. But the Peter Gunn theme was a HUGE hit recording and was in juke boxes, and played on the radio. Mike Hammer and M Squad were a year or two before Peter Gunn, but Peter Gunn is the music everyone remembers. Also that same year Mancini wrote his amazing them for Touch of Evil.

However my point was that the movies that we think of as being Film Noir, IE Out of the Past, The Big Heat, The Maltese Falcon, The Asphalt Jungle etc., all had conventional symphonic scores.

Doug

 

[Naphtali]

Mike Hammer was 56, and M Squad was 57. Yes they had jazz influenced scores M Squad in particular. All three shows aired around the same time. But the Peter Gunn theme was a HUGE hit recording and was in juke boxes, and played on the radio. Mike Hammer and M Squad were a year or two before Peter Gunn, but Peter Gunn is the music everyone remembers. Also that same year Mancini wrote his amazing them for Touch of Evil.

However my point was that the movies that we think of as being Film Noir, IE Out of the Past, The Big Heat, The Maltese Falcon, The Asphalt Jungle etc., all had conventional symphonic scores.

Doug

I remember nothing about "M Squad" except its theme, Lee Marvin's character's name, Frank Ballinger, and that he wore a stingy brim fedora (not bad for a child's memory).

"Mike Hammer" was my favorite Friday night show, 10:30 PM, of my childhood. Its theme, relying on smooth, low trumpet solo, reminds me of Jerry Goldsmith's "Chinatown" theme. I was shocked to discover that episodes where Mike Hammer would beat information out of the pharmacist??-fence Gita (Vito Scotti), that I remember as occurring every episode (to my delight), in fact occurred only five times during the show's production.

 

[Atomic Age]

I've never seen the 50's Mike Hammer tv show. However I have seen Kiss Me Deadly where Mike Hammer slams the guys fingers in the desk drawer to get some information out of him.

Doug