Film Noir?

[Blackthorn]

You are very right, Feraud! That's what makes it so fun to watch, it's never the same cookie-cutter story.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, if Bogie is in it, its the real deal.

Hear, hear!! My sentiments exactly.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

Farewell My Lovely, with Robert Mitchum

Here's my favorite, "Farewell My Lovely", a remake starring Robert Mitchum from 1975. I've read the book, seen the Dick Powell version, but there's something about the aging Mitchum that just nails the character for me.

The fact that the co-star in this one is a young Charlotte Rampling doesn't hurt it either. The opening scene with it's cinematography and the film's score are also outstanding.

I will also note the supporting cast is great as well: John Ireland, Sylvia Miles (fantastic performance!), Harry Dean Stanton, Anthony Zerbe, and in a deja vu, Sylvester Stallone and Joe Spinell in bit parts. Joe plays Rocky's loan shark boss in "Rocky".

 

[Widebrim]

Here's my favorite, "Farewell My Lovely", a remake starring Robert Mitchum from 1975. I've read the book, seen the Dick Powell version, but there's something about the aging Mitchum that just nails the character for me.

The fact that the co-star in this one is a young Charlotte Rampling doesn't hurt it either. The opening scene with it's cinematography and the film's score are also outstanding.

I will also note the supporting cast is great as well: John Ireland, Sylvia Miles (fantastic performance!), Harry Dean Stanton, Anthony Zerbe, and in a deja vu, Sylvester Stallone and Joe Spinell in bit parts. Joe plays Rocky's loan shark boss in "Rocky".

Yes, Rampling is a delightful plus...I've read the book, seen Powell's and Mitchum's version, and like 'em all. Some critic's downplay Mitchell's interpretation, but they can go jump in a lake...

 

[Wally_Hood]

I heard once that what makes a noir a noir is that someone once made a mistake. The story unfolds from that mistake; not a series of mistakes, but one in particular. Burt Lancaster in The Killers actually says something about making a mistake.

Noirs almost always have a sense of inevitabilty about them. The protagonist struggles to overcome an approaching doom, running away from lethal predicaments, hardly ever vanquishing them. The femme fatale always seems to offer hope or solace, but generally double crosses the poor sap, adding more pain to his (and the protagonist always seems to be male) downward spiral.

Doran, please insert comment here...

 

[Widebrim]

I heard once that what makes a noir a noir is that someone once made a mistake. The story unfolds from that mistake; not a series of mistakes, but one in particular. Burt Lancaster in The Killers actually says something about making a mistake.

Very much so. In Kansas City Confidential, it is the police (understandibly) mistaking John Payne's delivery van for the one used in the bank heist. In Criss Cross, it is Burt Lancaster making the mistake of going to the old nightclub the night that Yvonne DeCarlo was there. In The Postman Always Rings Twice, I would say that it was leaving the dead (electrocuted) cat where it died when Garfield and Turner tried to kill her husband in the bath tub (although a case might be made for Turner walking up the mountain her husband's car had just gone over).

 

[Wally_Hood]

Very much so. In Kansas City Confidential, it is the police (understandibly) mistaking John Payne's delivery van for the one used in the bank heist. In Criss Cross, it is Burt Lancaster making the mistake of going to the old nightclub the night that Yvonne DeCarlo was there. In The Postman Always Rings Twice, I would say that it was leaving the dead (electrocuted) cat where it died when Garfield and Turner tried to kill her husband in the bath tub (although a case might be made for Turner walking up the mountain her husband's car had just gone over).

Expert analysis, Widebrim. Kansas City Confidential is underappreciated. Have you read Postman... to compare film and source?

 

[Feraud]

Good conversation.

To note, not all noir is the result of having made a mistake. Sometimes being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough to set the stage.
Take D.O.A., Scarlet Street, The Big Clock, and Detour as examples.
With the exception of Eddie Robinson trying to cover up a manslaughter rap, the others did nothing but had a bad deal put on them. Picking up a hitchhiker(Detour) or taking certain jobs withing the course of your work (D.O.A.) can be a life or death prospect.

 

[Naphtali]

I really hope this thread doesn't already exist, but I've seen so many parodies and heard so much about "film noir" from the 30s and 40s, and I was wondering what (if any) film noir movies are must-watch or just really good.

Sorry I'm late to the party.

As a genre, I'm not fond of noir because as a rule I do not appreciate "downer" motion pictures as entertainment. Having written that, here are two brief lists, the first being noir films that may be consensus "must sees" or classic noir-ish films - by my evaluation - the second list being noir films I enjoyed as entertainment.

1. Scarface (1932), Paul Muni, George Raft. I believe pre-code gangster films can be classified as noir despite the term being coined more than a decade subsequent.

2. The Public Enemy (1931) James Cagney, Jean Harlow.

3. Little Caesar (1930) Edward G. Robinson, Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.

4. The Pawnbroker (1965) Rod Steiger, Brock Peters.

5. Paths of Glory (1957) Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker.
***
The following films I find entertaining, worth watching "again" or owning.

6. The Third Man (1949) Joseph Cotten, Orson Welles. Without its cinematography and music, the film is mediocre. With these facets, mediocre becomes excellent.

7. Chinatown (1974) Jack Nicholson, Faye Dunaway. When not over-acting, as he does not in this film, Mr. Nicholson is magnificent.

8. Hud (1963) Paul Newman, Patricia Neal. The German term for Mr. Newman's Hud Bannon is Arschloch.

9. The Hustler (1961) Paul Newman, Jackie Gleason.

10. Detour (1945) Tom Neal, Ann Savage. Can noir be hilarious? I believe it can; here is proof.

 

[Wally_Hood]

An Amendment, Perhaps...

Good conversation.

To note, not all noir is the result of having made a mistake. Sometimes being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough to set the stage.
Take D.O.A., Scarlet Street, The Big Clock, and Detour as examples.
With the exception of Eddie Robinson trying to cover up a manslaughter rap, the others did nothing but had a bad deal put on them. Picking up a hitchhiker(Detour) or taking certain jobs withing the course of your work (D.O.A.) can be a life or death prospect.

Noir could then be considered the type of story in which a chain of events leads to an unavoidable endpoint (almost always negative or lethal), which chain is set in motion by a bad choice (the mistake), or by being caught up inadvertently in that chain.

However, it seems that noir is tragedy, which to my thinking (not infallible at all) would require the plot to be ignited by the lead character's making a decision that leads him to the tragic ending.

Of the many films we love, some are noir and some are noirish, and some have noir elements. But we see the film and we recognize the genre or its roots.

This is sort of like Louis Armstrong's famous aphorism re: jazz: "Man, if you gotta ask, you'll never get it."

 

[Talbot]

Try this site

For some cool noir graphics

http://www.annyas.com/screenshots/film-noir/

 

[Feraud]

Nice site!

 

[docneg]

Thanks for the great link.

 

[Widebrim]

Expert analysis, Widebrim. Kansas City Confidential is underappreciated. Have you read Postman... to compare film and source?

Thanks. No, I haven't read Postman; I suppose I'll put it on my reading list, after I finish Dark Carnival, a biography about Tod Browning.

 

[Widebrim]

Good conversation.

To note, not all noir is the result of having made a mistake. Sometimes being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough to set the stage.
Take D.O.A., Scarlet Street, The Big Clock, and Detour as examples.
With the exception of Eddie Robinson trying to cover up a manslaughter rap, the others did nothing but had a bad deal put on them. Picking up a hitchhiker(Detour) or taking certain jobs withing the course of your work (D.O.A.) can be a life or death prospect.

You're right, Feraud, in your general statement, especially with films like The Big Clock and D.O.A. (excellent noirs). With Detour, a case could be made that Al Roberts' mistake was to not report Charles Haskell's death to the police (yes, I know that the former was afraid of the police, but...), and/or his picking up of Vera on the highway (or was that just "fate?"). And in Scarlet Street, could we say that it was Christopher Cross' mistake of pursuing beautiful, but rotten Kitty which set the stage for that which follows? Just some thoughts...

 

[Anthony K]

One of my favorite forms of film. Some of my favorites.

1. Gilda

2. Laura

3. This Gun For Hire

4. Touch Of Evil

5. Mulholland Dr. (it's a modern film but definitely noir)

6. Out Of The Past

7. The Big Clock

8. The Big Sleep

9. Double Indemnity (some consider this the best noir film ever made - I definitely recommend it)


Here's some Film Noir sites:

http://www.filmsite.org/filmnoir.html

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/Noirtext.html

 

[Widebrim]

One of my favorite forms of film. Some of my favorites.

1. Gilda

2. Laura

3. This Gun For Hire

4. Touch Of Evil

5. Mulholland Dr. (it's a modern film but definitely noir)

6. Out Of The Past

7. The Big Clock

8. The Big Sleep

9. Double Indemnity (some consider this the best noir film ever made - I definitely recommend it)


Here's some Film Noir sites:

http://www.filmsite.org/filmnoir.html

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/Noirtext.html

Definitely a list of some great Films Noir!

 

[John in Covina]

Despite the silly wolf calls at the beginning, D.O.A. is a classic! And it takes place in both S.F. and L.A.! (Well, mostly S.F.) But who here has seen Impact with Brian Donleavy? It's sort of a take on Double Indemnity and The Post Man Always Rings Twice, except that the intended victim survives and...I won't spoil it for those who now wish to give it a shot. A great line that Dunleavy spouts: "l never think of our moments together without nausea." Some don't consider it real Noir, but...I differ.

Impact is a favorite of mine too. Donleavy is great as the good husband crossed. The blonde that plays his wife is stunning.

 

[John in Covina]

The Narrow Margin is a film noir on a train that i like a lot.

IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044954/

 

[Cigarband]

Another overlooked but must-see noir, "Nightmare Alley"
Starring Tyrone Power and Joan Blondell.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039661/

 

[John in Covina]

Good conversation.

To note, not all noir is the result of having made a mistake. Sometimes being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough to set the stage.
Take D.O.A., Scarlet Street, The Big Clock, and Detour as examples.
With the exception of Eddie Robinson trying to cover up a manslaughter rap, the others did nothing but had a bad deal put on them. Picking up a hitchhiker(Detour) or taking certain jobs withing the course of your work (D.O.A.) can be a life or death prospect.

*******
Actually the "mistake" the protagonist makes in Detour is that he doesn't go directly to the police with the dead guy and explain what happen, how he died. By hiding the body and taking the guys place he compounds the mistake of not being truthful about the death for fear of being blamed.
It all hinges on that bad decision.