Felt qualities.

[riccardo]

Hi,
what about felt quality, how can a fellow value it?
Is better a thick felt or a thin one?
Is better a soft felt or a stiff felt?
What about antelope felt, is it better than a beaver felt?

Thanks in advance.

Riccardo.

 

[Matt Deckard]

We have discussed this at length here somewhere, until I find some other posts, check this one out.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=felt+quality

There is still alot to write on this topic.

 

[Mr. 'H']

I used to wonder why the hats I owned (pre-vintage) never held a proper crease in the front of the crown....

Then I discovered vintage felt.

My, what a difference.

There really is no comparison - you have to feel it to experience it.

 

[Fedora]

what about felt quality, how can a fellow value it?

Is better a thick felt or a thin one?

Is better a soft felt or a stiff felt?

What about antelope felt, is it better than a beaver felt?

I am afraid I did not understand the first question. The second question is one I can add input. For longevity, with all other things being equal, the thick felt will last longer. Like a thick pair of Levis versus a thin pair of cheap jeans. It is better, but only in that area. I do not like really thick felt, as I like dress hats which tend nowadays to be a lighter weight felt. So, I always opt for a lightweight, 75 gram body minimum, or a medium weight, say 120 grams. On the third question, it all depends on what you are looking for in a hat. Both stiff and soft bodies of the same quality are just different animals. That is all. Antelope felt? Just another way to sell a hat. Beaver has always been the best felt available. I have never ever seen a bad beaver body. I have heard of them, but I honestly feel that those bad ones were not beaver, regardless of what the customer was told that it was. That goes on alot in the hat business. When hats went out of vogue, and the old folks who wore them died out, it left a void that has been filled with misinformation, or more bluntly, downright lies of felt content. Matt here, bought a beaver hat from a well know hatter and the thing self destructed. I would bet that the hat contained perhaps a pinch of beaver fur, and was sold as being pure, or at least a high content beaver hat. The same thing happened to me years ago. I bought beaver and got a rabbit blend. I was too stupid to know the difference and this is what these sort of folks live on.

Once you have been exposed to lots of felt, low quality and high quality, it is easy to pick the good stuff. Experience helps. Comparing vintage hats like the Knox line, the Cavanagh line and a few others will give you an idea of what high quality felt should look and feel like. Art and I have found that the best alternitive for vintage felt is pure beaver felt, as long as you can get it with no added stiffener. A hat equipment manufacturer in Europe recently told a friend of mine, only 3 companies still make vintage quality lightweight felt. None are located in the USA. Winchester, the felter that I use, makes an excellent medium weight dress pure beaver body, but does not offer the lightweight. I have found through investing thousands of dollars in modern felt over the years, that most of the factory hats being sold by companies is made of low quality stuff. Disposable hats, if you will. In order to get decent felt you must buy from a custom hatter who uses differentt sources, and who pride themselves in their felt. Fedora

 

[rick5150]

Hi,
what about felt quality, how can a fellow value it?
Is better a thick felt or a thin one?
Is better a soft felt or a stiff felt?

I would like to add a bit:

First, do not confuse a thick felt with a dense felt. Two felts can weigh tthe same and one may be twice as thick as the other. I would opt for the thinner, but denser felt.

Soft or stiff is a preference call. Soft is usually more comfortable, but having a three inch brim flapping over your eyes in a brisk wind can get annoying. Not as annoying as having a stiff hat fly off in the wind though.

 

[riccardo]

Many thanks to all, you're very helpful!!
...I would like to read others ideas.
Thanks again.
Riccardo.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Watch the hype.

Riccardo.
Please don't fall for X game like 1000X, 1500X and names like Sterling beaver. As they say in USA , Its all [edit]Bull****[edit] !

 

[BellyTank]

Mr. Sharpetoys, I'm pretty sure nobody would believe that '1500 Beavers died to make this hat'.
It's not BS, it's product naming/grading/branding and as we know, what you're specifically mentioning is specific to one vendor.

The proof, as thay say, is in the pudding and you've seen for yourself that the pudding from that particular vendor is pretty dern good- like it or not.

Vendors use the 'X' as their own reference, it doesn't mean what it used to- if it ever did mean anything in reality...

Factors like fibre type/content and weight are meaningful reference for an unseen/unhandled product.

Watch the hype and the 'hype' Riccardo.

B
T

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Spin

Spin it anyway you want. The X's don't mean a thing in a modern felt hat. It is pure marketing trying to convince the uneducated hat buying public that there product is better and or that is why I charge so much. A fancy name put on a beaver felt won't make it anything other than a piece of felt. I call it Hype.

You call it what ever you want. It smells to me.

 

[BellyTank]

What spin..? It's one vendor's grading system/name for products he makes himself. He could call them 1,000,000XXXXX if he wanted to. Doesn't matter if the X thing is meaningless when compared to something from 100 years ago.
He also has a cheaper '25X', so why not then give a superior product a superior number.

Putting a fancy name on a beaver felt will certainly make it appear 'fancier' than a less expensive rabbit felt- sounds like good sense to me.

Seems like your bitterness is overflowing into your reasoning. :hamburger

B
T

 

[Matt Deckard]

Calm down guys.

The X factor may have been destroyed over the years as a means of measure since there was no real standard based on x's. Vendors can use it now and a higher x may be better than a lower x from the same vendor. Problem still lay in the fact that 100 x today may be someone elses 25 x.

Or 10 x today can be tomorrows 100 x from the same vendor.

That is the problem that the hatting industry had when using this formula to rate hats.

 

[jamespowers]

Whenever I see anything with an X in the name made today I stay away from it. I don't care if its Stetson's 1000X or anyone elses. If you can't think up a better system then that just shows you are not thinking outside the X box.
Geez, even Dobbs of today has different names for its levels of product. You can start with a Dayton; move to a Broadstreet and further up to a Golden Coach or Deion. They even have the cheaper Carlise's. This makes more sense.
Stetson even had the Royal, Royal De Luxe and Imperial in their good years. Then they even had names withint he categories like Stratoliner, Open Road, St. Regis and a host of others.
I wish producers of today would leave the Xs behind and tell us what we get with a new hat. Say this level gets you a better sweatband or ribbon treatment. This level gets you a better finish on top of it and on and on.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Panamabob]

Sharpie,

I know for a fact you've seen the pudding.

 

[BellyTank]

Many here have seen the pudding.

B
T

 

[Panamabob]

Simply put:

As with Montecristis, the pudding doesn't value the difference in price. One man's oponion, but echoed often.

 

[BellyTank]

But... Montecristis are either Montecristis, or not Montecristis-
-the truth is more tangible- the math is meaningful-
Felt is not just felt, it is any felt... good, better, even better...

B
T

 

[Fedora]

I think what grates Sharpetoys is the way the "x" system is used to sell hats, that the only difference may be an extra round of pouncing. Nothing wrong with a hatter doing that, but it does irritate some folks. One could take one beaver body, and use it for a 100x up to a million x hat. The price difference could be astronomical, but what you are actually getting would be the same as if you bought the 100x. That irritates me too, but I figure old P.T. Barnum was very correct in his famous saw. Some hatters live by old Barnum's maxim. See, a hatter that is not an honest guy can tell you anything, and because you do not know his felt source, and have no inside hatter info, he could sell you a bill of goods that was all hype. You must have a trustworthy hatter. With the internet being so powerful, and getting more so, it is fairly easy today to check up on any hatter that sells on the net. Do the research, and you will not get burned. A fool does no research, and takes a pit stop at the first hatter he talks to. Fedora

 

[besdor]

Fedora, I think you have nailed it right on . Just find a hat store that you can trust especially when buying a custom made hat and you'll be all right .
I see that there are certain custom hat makers that are very envious of others .

 

[Matt Deckard]

Do the research, and you will not get burned. But, this applies only to non-fools. A fool does no research, and takes a pit stop at the first hatter he talks to. Fedora

Too true. Too many times have I seen people caught up in the furver of a newly found hatter that promise the world. They throw away all the research and disregard what anyone else says in favor of their new found hat salesman only to find out in time that their treasured super high end hat tapers and droops faster than their Akubra.

I stop by the hat shops and buy new hats from various hatters every year as do many on this board.
This website has been a dropping off point for information on hatters and if you need some information on one product versus another you can access that resource by doing a search or asking a question. Just look before you leap, and make sure that someone has had that hatters hat for a fair amount of time before you get a real revue.

And whenever you can... buy vintage. Modern hat making has yet to match most vintage felts.

 

[riccardo]

mmm...i was confused...now i'm more than before!
Do you advice,maybe, to buy vintage hat?
Have I understand?
Regards.
Riccardo.