Fedoras in the 19th Century.

[mayserwegener]

Nicely done RLK and Dinerman! :eusa_clap

B

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Woodfluter]

Nicely done RLK and Dinerman! :eusa_clap
B

:arated:

rlk and dinerman, you are the kings of fedora research!
Well done mates!
I tried to do some digging months back in connection with another thread but didn't have time or resources to accomplish what you did. Hats off to you!

- Bill

 

[rlk]

Earliest Stetson Fedora(so far)

 

[rlk]

 

[Brad Bowers]

I'll take one of each.

Except for the curled brim, it looks very much like a much later Fedora.

Brad

 

[rlk]

Note the 1897 Stetson with front pinches and straighter crown block too.

 

[rlk]

Going backwards-early Woman's Fedora 1883

Predates Knox Men's Fedora and first US performance.

 

[rlk]

Plymouth 1893-European and American styles

Homburg in detail, Fedora/Alpine

 

[rlk]

1895

 

[rlk]

1896

 

[rlk]

1897

 

[rlk]

1898

 

[mayserwegener]

Homburg in detail, Fedora/Alpine

Great! This Homburg is very much like Edward's but they offered them in other than gray which is different.

"The Baden - Baden" is interesting. Is it a style out of Baden - Baden (similar to the Homburg and Bad Homburg) or a marketing invention?

 

[rlk]

1895 Stetsons

Nothing actually called a Fedora...

My assessment at the moment is that Stetson didn't initially take advantage of the "New Fedora" craze or create new styles for the trend. It already had models that resembled the imported style and in fact their versions seem to have won the style competition as we look backwards. The public had firmly associated the name "Fedora" with the hat style by 1897...Soft, always with a center crease and tapered(differing amounts-yes) fairly tall crown and flanged(initially curled) brim with some width, so Stetson came aboard with its marketing.

 

[Woodfluter]

Astounding work rlk! You're a nobby swell in my book!

Have seen ads and catalogs from this time period before, but never a systematic progression through the time period when "fedora" was taking hold. Quite an eye opener. Some preliminary observations:

1. A lot of hats we'd unequivocally call "Homburgs" today would have been called Fedoras in the 1890's, perhaps later too.

2. Names appear to have been quite transitory and flexible, not remotely as rigid as today when hats are less common. Note the references to style changes in six-month periods - in shoes, suits, hats. I believe, looking back, we tend to forget how dynamic styles and nomenclature were. And how trendy they were!

3. In the same year, the same store ran different ads with the exact same woodcut labeled as "Fedora" and "Alpine". My point...it's all advertising. Names got slapped on depending on what would boost sales. "Fedora" sort of stuck over the long haul, for some accidental reason.

4. There were lots of soft hats, but I get an impression that the Fedora per se was a slightly classier version? Perhaps competing with the stiff hat. The name "Tourist" crops up pretty often...seems like a more casual lid with narrower brim.

5. Based on the one ad only, the 1890's idea of "Homburg" had a flat-top tapered crown, always center dented but might have side dents too. So the tapering was a distinguishing factor from "fedoras"? Yes, I see tapering on the latter when viewed from the side, but they're dented in - my two Homburgs look exactly like this if I dent them. So if I'm not totally wrong...new question opens as to when "fedora" became a soft hat with un-curled crown (flanged or not) and "Homburg" became the fedora of the 1890's.

 

[mayserwegener]

5. Based on the one ad only, the 1890's idea of "Homburg" had a flat-top tapered crown, always center dented but might have side dents too. So the tapering was a distinguishing factor from "fedoras"? Yes, I see tapering on the latter when viewed from the side, but they're dented in - my two Homburgs look exactly like this if I dent them. So if I'm not totally wrong...new question opens as to when "fedora" became a soft hat with un-curled crown (flanged or not) and "Homburg" became the fedora of the 1890's.

This is Edward wearing a Homburg.

It has a bunch of taper and a tall crown similar to the Plymouth one.

This one from the Bad Homburg museum which I think could be a Möckel (original maker) also fits the bill (just has a deeper center dent).

From what I know Edwardian Homburgs were gray only so not sure why Plymouth is offering the other colors.

 

[rlk]

I would observe that we have a few different hat styles with the common center dent and flanged brim all being marketed with the trendy new name.
1.The "Homburg" style with its Central European roots had a bit taller and more tapered crown and was truly a soft hat.
2. A second current would be hats that were essentially a Derby/Bowler with a dented crown, alla Lobbia. Probably only semi-soft.
3. Generally wider brim soft hats in the country/military range exemplified by some of Stetson's offerings with the "Fedora" center creased, but generally less tapered crown.

Fedora
center dented crown
tapered crown(not a cylindrical Top Hat or domed Bowler)
soft(not rigid like a Bowler or Top Hat )

brim varies over time(but all named Fedora specifically curled during this period).

Therefore a "Homburg" is a Fedora but an Open Crown or a Telescope is not.

 

[danofarlington]

I would observe that we have a few different hat styles with the common center dent and flanged brim all being marketed with the trendy new name.
1.The "Homburg" style with its Central European roots had a bit taller and more tapered crown and was truly a soft hat.
2. A second current would be hats that were essentially a Derby/Bowler with a dented crown, alla Lobbia.
3. Generally wider brim soft hats in the country/military range exemplified by some of Stetson's offerings with the "Fedora" center creased crown but generally less tapered crown.

Someone might make money by writing a short volume or chapter for a volume on "Hat Taxonomy." I'll bet that hasn't been done since the 40s.

 

[mayserwegener]

I would observe that we have a few different hat styles with the common center dent and flanged brim all being marketed with the trendy new name.
1.The "Homburg" style with its Central European roots had a bit taller and more tapered crown and was truly a soft hat.
2. A second current would be hats that were essentially a Derby/Bowler with a dented crown, alla Lobbia. Probably only semi-soft.
3. Generally wider brim soft hats in the country/military range exemplified by some of Stetson's offerings with the "Fedora" center creased, but generally less tapered crown.

Looks good to me. For number (2) I would add the introduction of black felt which eventually became more popular than gray. It looks like this wasn't the case in the USA though for early Homburgs (see Plymouth example of different colors) but the Homburg of Edward was gray.

 

[rlk]

Looks good to me. For number (2) I would add the introduction of black felt which eventually became more popular than gray. It looks like this wasn't the case in the USA though for early Homburgs (see Plymouth example of different colors) but the Homburg of Edward was gray.

Simplification and generalization from an American viewpoint of the period ignoring later developments for clarity.