Fedoras, first decade of the 20th Century

[rlk]

The next step...
Here's an opening comment from Success Magazine of 1907:

 

[Undertow]

Now isn't that interesting? I suppose the bowler, top hate, and other similar small brimmed hats were more typical of urban eras. Or at least in so much as the author was concerned. I also liked the bit about being a human target.

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

The next step...
Here's an opening comment from Success Magazine of 1907:

I wonder how many readers this magazine had at the time. The magazine began as a manifesto for the New Thought Movement. Probably a little far fetched for mainstream America in it's day. Also, when you get out of New York and Chicago the rules change for the rest of America. [huh]

 

[Dinerman]

Also interesting that it seems to have been introduced as a city hat going by the 1883 ads.

 

[danofarlington]

The next step...
Here's an opening comment from Success Magazine of 1907:

Oh, man! Now I've got to throw out all my purple ties, which could've otherwise been worn with my fedoras.

 

[tnitz]

Precedents?

I haven't researched this and won't have time for a while, but my memory of the disdain US soldiers had for the slouch hat introduced in the 1870s suggest, to me, that they simply were reacting as much to the concept of a soft felt hat as anything else.

I often wonder to what extent the incarnation of the "fedora" as urban casual wear is part of the common introduction of military fashion statements to male wardrobe and, thus, how much the military slouch contributed to the integration and development of the fedora as we know it. Despite the ad's comments, I don't see so much "western" or "campfire" influence (which probably would have resulted in more urban uses of alpine creases) as I do military influence (predominant appearance of center crease in 1930's).

But all of this is pure speculation on my part.

 

[1961MJS]

I haven't researched this and won't have time for a while, but my memory of the disdain US soldiers had for the slouch hat introduced in the 1870s suggest, to me, that they simply were reacting as much to the concept of a soft felt hat as anything else...

Hi

The US Soldiers liked the slouch hat in general, but intensely disliked the slouch hat introduced in the 1870's. It was called the Andrew's hat, which had snaps to make it look like an old Napoleon type hat. It was made of inferior grade felt, the snaps broke off, and it was black, in Texas, in the summer...

http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/ sells them for $150.00.

If you search Google books: The U.s. Army in the West, 1870-1880: Uniforms, Weapons, And Equipment By Douglas C. McChristian, John P. Langellier, and then search on Hats, you'll find a bunch of "I hate your new hat" letters. Black is a hot color in the summer in Kansas. Apparently, most of the boys bought commercial slouch hats.

later

 

[danofarlington]

I haven't researched this and won't have time for a while, but my memory of the disdain US soldiers had for the slouch hat introduced in the 1870s suggest, to me, that they simply were reacting as much to the concept of a soft felt hat as anything else.

I often wonder to what extent the incarnation of the "fedora" as urban casual wear is part of the common introduction of military fashion statements to male wardrobe and, thus, how much the military slouch contributed to the integration and development of the fedora as we know it. Despite the ad's comments, I don't see so much "western" or "campfire" influence (which probably would have resulted in more urban uses of alpine creases) as I do military influence (predominant appearance of center crease in 1930's).

But all of this is pure speculation on my part.

OK, but now my question is, where did the U.S. Cavalry hat come from that I see in movies representing the 1870s, like the John Ford-John Wayne movies of the era? Was that bogus, or a true portrayal of the Cavalry hats then? Those look pretty much like modern fedoras.

 

[gtdean48]

OK, but now my question is, where did the U.S. Cavalry hat come from that I see in movies representing the 1870s, like the John Ford-John Wayne movies of the era? Was that bogus, or a true portrayal of the Cavalry hats then? Those look pretty much like modern fedoras.

I think Ford was trying to recreate some of Remington's paintings =
http://www.encore-editions.com/fred...ers-cooking-1893-original-size-16x17-ink-wash
http://www.encore-editions.com/fred...ve-americana-paintings-a-cavalry-officer-1901

 

[Dinerman]

I don't see so much "western" or "campfire" influence (which probably would have resulted in more urban uses of alpine creases)
.

That crease was very common on fedoras and homburgs pre 1940s, less so on cowboy hats until the '30s.

 

[rlk]

1900

Oregon. Military Dept, Oregon. Adjutant ... - 1900

 

[rlk]

Humor 1900

The Holy Cross purple, Volume 10 By College of the Holy Cross (Worcester, Mass.)

 

[rlk]

The Mannish Woman 1901

complete article http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...FAAAAIBAJ&pg=1909,4281062&dq=fedora+hat&hl=en

 

[Spatterdash]

Funny things about the OP article.

It clearly indicates the fedora was "country" wear, not appropriate for urban centers, yet by the thirties and the forties, the fedora was the hat of the man about town, the ultimate urban cover.

Seems the world has been embracing casualwear and dressing down for quite a long time.

Here I am, saddened to see so much casual wear, even gym wear, and yet I love a hat that began as a casual rural hat, and was likely disregarded in the 1910s as much as we disregard the backward baseball cap.

Well, maybe not THAT much...

It also makes me wonder (cause I don't know), was the Homburg a transitional piece between the bowler and the fedora in this time frame? I notice by the twenties some images of hats become difficult to identify - could be a fedora, could be a homburg.

 

[rlk]

It also makes me wonder (cause I don't know), was the Homburg a transitional piece between the bowler and the fedora in this time frame? I notice by the twenties some images of hats become difficult to identify - could be a fedora, could be a homburg.

Although true in a broad sense, this would be a mis-interpretation from a modern perspective. Here, and in the Fedoras in the 19th Century Thread previously, we are examining what was called a Fedora at that time and how it developed. At its origin the Fedora name was given to what one might call a Homburg(a particular style of soft hat). What the name was applied to seems to change through time, not the hat itself being modified alone. At this transitional point, the center "fedora" crease seems to become the dominant characteristic while the rest of the form becomes less specific. The older forms stayed in existence and other older forms had the new name Fedora applied to them. This was really the decade of Derby dominance.
1905

 

[1961MJS]

OK, but now my question is, where did the U.S. Cavalry hat come from that I see in movies representing the 1870s, like the John Ford-John Wayne movies of the era? Was that bogus, or a true portrayal of the Cavalry hats then? Those look pretty much like modern fedoras.

Hi

The Cavalry hats depicted in the movies were "store bought" not issued. The issue hats didn't hold up, and you needed a hat then. In general, during the Civil and Indian wars, the soldiers wore civilian head wear. The exception would be the forage caps. These could be issue OR bought from a sutler. The government wasn't (ever) the only place to buy Army uniforms.

Later

 

[danofarlington]

Hi

The Cavalry hats depicted in the movies were "store bought" not issued. The issue hats didn't hold up, and you needed a hat then. In general, during the Civil and Indian wars, the soldiers wore civilian head wear. The exception would be the forage caps. These could be issue OR bought from a sutler. The government wasn't (ever) the only place to buy Army uniforms.

Later

Interesting. But either way, if the movies are accurate, I say the fedora look dates back to then, prior to 1883 with Sarah Davenport. If inaccurate, then no conclusions. But if accurate, then the new development with Sarah Davenport was merely the name of the hat, the fedora, and not the dawn of the soft hat.

 

[gtdean48]

Civil War soldiers were notorious for standing along railroad tracks where they knew the grateful public would cheer for them as they passed. The soldiers knew men would wave their hats, so they would use tree branches to knock the hats out of the male citizens' hands as the train rolled by & collect the hats that had now been enlisted into military service... slouch hats were definitely civilian head wear, just not always procured from sutler stores....

 

[rlk]

Interesting. But either way, if the movies are accurate, I say the fedora look dates back to then, prior to 1883 with Sarah Davenport. If inaccurate, then no conclusions. But if accurate, then the new development with Sarah Davenport was merely the name of the hat, the fedora, and not the dawn of the soft hat.

Soft hats date back many centuries, stiff hats were a "modern" technology. Again, not tracing hats that resemble today's concept of a Fedora but historical terminology. The creased soft cavalry and western hats were not originally called Fedoras obviously, but later came to be associated with the expanding usage of the name in the 20th Century. The central crease and tapered(to varying degrees) crown were the common element.

A petasos or petasus (Greek: πέτασος) is a sun hat of Thessalian origin worn by the ancient Greeks, often in combination with the chlamys cape, it was the first hat to be made. It was usually made of wool felt, leather or straw, with a broad, floppy brim. It was worn primarily by farmers and travellers, and was considered characteristic of rural people. As a winged hat, it became the symbol of Hermes, the Greek mythological messenger god (Roman equivalent Mercury)

 

[hatophile]

Farmers and ranchers would more commonly wear a wider-brimmed hat due to element exposure. City folk would have buildings and alleys to duck into,
so probably not so much exposure and able to get away with smaller brim hats. Most people stayed where they were born at the turn of the century, but the widespread use of the automobile in the Teens and Twenties allowed for more mobility, hence, wider use of the new-fangled, wider brimmed hat (fedora). Just a theory.