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[Rmccamey]

Sign me up, Edward. I claim no expertise in hats or hat history but I could coordinate things. In my day job I work with international teams crafting various ISO Standards, so I know something about the process.

In the end you are correct, those with the requisite knowledge would need to be part of the team. Hopefully they would volunteer. There are some who we would ask as that have demonstrated expertise here on the Lounge. There are some experts we would need to invite who are not on the Lounge. But if we/I/you/someone could get an official "commission" from TFL, we could get started to see where it goes.

I say this purely as a personal opinion and not on behalf of TFL, but...

I think this would be a great idea; I think the 'articles' format or the TFL 'Guides' could be a useful base for this sort of information. (Some level of 'beginner's guide' would even be helpful, given we get a lot of traffic from people new to vintage who stumble across us on a google search.)

As ever, the challenge is to find a team of people with the relevant knowledge who are prepared to put the work in and have the time to do so, which can be trickier than you'd assume.

 

[Just Daniel]

Excellent!

I vote for the wiki format primarily because it is simple and costs less. Set up the platform, and we’ll start filling it in. My first page would be “Dating Stetson Hats.”

Put a small banner for a google ad and let it go, the same community will maintain the standard of quality. It will also keep the Lounge as the center for vintage hat information.

One policy example: Editing permissions can be used to maintain quality, for instance Wikipedia has volunteer moderators who apply for the designation and permissions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators

All the best,
Daniel

I say this purely as a personal opinion and not on behalf of TFL, but...

I think this would be a great idea; I think the 'articles' format or the TFL 'Guides' could be a useful base for this sort of information. (Some level of 'beginner's guide' would even be helpful, given we get a lot of traffic from people new to vintage who stumble across us on a google search.)

As ever, the challenge is to find a team of people with the relevant knowledge who are prepared to put the work in and have the time to do so, which can be trickier than you'd assume.

 

[Rmccamey]

With all due respect, if there is already Wikipedia why create another one. Readers would then become even more confused by having to decide not only which definition is most correct but also which "Wiki" is most correct, credible, or believable. My opinion, but if we want the Lounge to become the authoritative source, there needs to be a systematic process to incorporate and insure rigor. Part of the process would be to clearly define the scope of whatever various sub-topics might evolve. Again, I would start with the basics and craft a set of standard definitions: fedora, homburg, western, cowboy, bowler are the first items that come to my mind. Types of weaves, straws, and quality levels of straw/panama hats would be an interesting but very big undertaking and would probably have to be subdivided into smaller projects itself. Of course, part of the "charge" would have to be to delineate whether we are going to consider only men's hats or also include women's hats? Children's hats? What is a man's hat? What is a women's hat? Would wool hats or fabric hats be included or only felt hats? Only 100% felt hats? I suspect that almost before things got started we would have to define "Vintage Hat" and that itself would be a very interesting and involved process.

While "Dating Stetson Hats" would be a great topic, in my experience that kind of topic would be much too broad. The first thing that would have to be decided is "What is a Stetson Hat"? Anything with a Stetson logo? Stetson hats made by other companies? Stetson hats made for the U.S. market or global markets? Stetson hats from 2019 and back or only those made before 1970? 1960? Pre-war? Wool hats? Fabric hats? Hats made by Stetson but labelled as something else? Is Dobbs a Stetson hat? After all, it is owned by Stetson and manufactured by Stetson.

Again, no disrespect intended, just thoughts for discussion. There are dozens of questions that would have to be answered before beginning such a project so that everyone has a clear and common understanding of what each project, or sub-project, is all about. Without that, we would be pouring information into Fedora-Wiki under a vastly different set of parameters to the point, as is often the case in Wikipedia, we end up with differing or even contrary information - that is all correct - for the same topic.

 

[The Jackal]

With all due respect, if there is already Wikipedia why create another one...

There are many subjects that have their own wiki. Star Wars immediately comes to mind with their "wookiepedia". In essence, Wikipedia is a good source of starter information about Star Wars, but wookiepedia goes more in depth on certain topics.

Of course this isn't true of all topics, with some almost exactly matching the Wikipedia page, but it also adds the benefit of having topics broken down into sections for easier referencing.

Wikipedia is currently pretty light on a lot of subjects surrounding hats in general, and while the FL is a great place for information, this place is pretty hard to navigate at times to find that information.

 

[jlee562]

There are many subjects that have their own wiki. Star Wars immediately comes to mind with their "wookiepedia". In essence, Wikipedia is a good source of starter information about Star Wars, but wookiepedia goes more in depth on certain topics.

Of course this isn't true of all topics, with some almost exactly matching the Wikipedia page, but it also adds the benefit of having topics broken down into sections for easier referencing.

Wikipedia is currently pretty light on a lot of subjects surrounding hats in general, and while the FL is a great place for information, this place is pretty hard to navigate at times to find that information.

Wookiepedia, Memory Alpha for Star Trek, A Wiki of Ice and Fire for Game of Thrones, etc, etc.

Theres more than enough for a hat wiki.

I would suggest starting with major companies and branching off from there. What is relevant to the history of Stetson, for example? We now have all sorts of documentation that we didn't have on the lounge even a few years ago.

 

[Rmccamey]

That's fine but I guess I'm already confused on what the scope of the project would be. We could easily add another thread to capture "the history of Stetson" but I don't see how having that thread would make the Lounge the definitive (or one of the definitive) resources on that topic. And again, no disrespect, but that would be a very large topic. If you started branching off, I could easily see subtopics (threads) based on felt quality, models, liners, size tags, etc. and we are already doing that.

 

[jlee562]

We are already doing that but nobody can find the information easily.

With a wiki, you won't have to search through threads to find buried information. I'd wager if we established a wiki with basic dating guides, we would cut down on the number of forum posts from newbies with a post count of under 10.

Think of a wiki entry as a collaborative essay between all the authors. All the cross-talk is done by the editors "behind the scenes" (so to speak) as the entry is written and edited. The purpose would be to distill all the information the lounge contains into a series of easily readable articles.

And yes, it is a large undertaking that easily branches off, but that's the beauty of the wiki format. Instead of having to search through another thread on felt quality, you just click through to the entry on felt quality.

 

[Just Daniel]

Yes! That’s exactly what I think we would end up with, and it would be the cumulative collection of what the Lounge has learned. For Stetsons there would certainly be subcategories on size tags, crests, liners, etc. Approved users would add their knowledge in an overall orderly manner.

That is the magic behind why Wikipedia works. The early concerns about accuracy and bias have been proven largely incorrect over time, and select user permissions allow interested volunteers to monitor topics.

Another reason to start an open wiki here is competitive: if we don’t do it, surely someone will create a page on Wikipedia for the topics we currently research here and reduce the utility of the beloved Lounge.

Daniel

That's fine but I guess I'm already confused on what the scope of the project would be. We could easily add another thread to capture "the history of Stetson" but I don't see how having that thread would make the Lounge the definitive (or one of the definitive) resources on that topic. And again, no disrespect, but that would be a very large topic. If you started branching off, I could easily see subtopics (threads) based on felt quality, models, liners, size tags, etc. and we are already doing that.

 

[Just Daniel]

Just for reference:

Here is the current Wikipedia entry for Stetson hats...in about 15 minutes anyone could add an entry on, for example, Stetson Crests, citing a variety of internet sources.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stetson

Let’s set up the platform here and get to work, I am sure in no time at all this would become the definitive hat resource on the web, and a neat little google ad space would generate some income to keep the site going...

 

[Rmccamey]

Ah, I now see the difference. I thought the current discussion was ways to make TFL the primary, expert source or standard of reference for all things [vintage, men's] hats.

You are talking about data management, consolidation, and ease of access. While Wikipedia is a Reference, it is not [usually] a Standard or Primary Source, those are listed in the References tab of Wiki entries.

Two different things, both are important.

Yes! That’s exactly what I think we would end up with, and it would be the cumulative collection of what the Lounge has learned. For Stetsons there would certainly be subcategories on size tags, crests, liners, etc. Approved users would add their knowledge in an overall orderly manner.

That is the magic behind why Wikipedia works. The early concerns about accuracy and bias have been proven largely incorrect over time, and select user permissions allow interested volunteers to monitor topics.

Another reason to start an open wiki here is competitive: if we don’t do it, surely someone will create a page on Wikipedia for the topics we currently research here and reduce the utility of the beloved Lounge.

Daniel

Just for reference:

Here is the current Wikipedia entry for Stetson hats...in about 15 minutes anyone could add an entry on, for example, Stetson Crests, citing a variety of internet sources.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stetson

Let’s set up the platform here and get to work, I am sure in no time at all this would become the definitive hat resource on the web, and a neat little google ad space would generate some income to keep the site going...

 

[Just Daniel]

I think a Lounge wiki absolutely would be the foremost point of reference for vintage hat information. Definitely.

As you note, the wiki format allows us to post and update information with what we know and learn. Information with hard data - historic price points, for example - would have links to pics or ads. Points not yet clear can be marked as such by moderators for more info.

All of it would be easily linked to the discussion thread - I am sure the current Lounge web designers will have a decent recommendation.

From my standpoint, the important thing is to put up the platform with a set of permissions and initial mods. Some guys might not get the tech stuff, but posting basic edits is fairly simple everyone else can help with any tech needs.

Does that sound about right?

Daniel

Ah, I now see the difference. I thought the current discussion was ways to make TFL the primary, expert source or standard of reference for all things [vintage, men's] hats.

You are talking about data management, consolidation, and ease of access. While Wikipedia is a Reference, it is not [usually] a Standard or Primary Source, those are listed in the References tab of Wiki entries.

Two different things, both are important.

 

[Rmccamey]

Sounds good to me but you'll have to convince others [bartenders/moderators] of it's merits. I'm just a little fish in this sea!

 

[Just Daniel]

Yes, I think three key points are:

1) The value in organizing the information and efforts of Loungers.
1A) The proven success of the wiki format in general.

2) The potential negative impact once information starts getting posted on Wikipedia, which is probably inevitable.

3) The value of ad income to the site (if that is a need).

Daniel

Sounds good to me but you'll have to convince others [bartenders/moderators] of it's merits. I'm just a little fish in this sea!

 

[jlee562]

Just for reference:

Here is the current Wikipedia entry for Stetson hats...in about 15 minutes anyone could add an entry on, for example, Stetson Crests, citing a variety of internet sources.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stetson

Let’s set up the platform here and get to work, I am sure in no time at all this would become the definitive hat resource on the web, and a neat little google ad space would generate some income to keep the site going...

I actually think a good chunk of the Lounge knowledge would not pass Wikipedia's editorial standards because it's not backed by primary source documents. It would likely be flagged under "original research."

We have surmised an awful lot from retailer catalogs, enough to give to broad outlines (of say, when 'Royal Stetson Deluxe' changed to 'Royal Deluxe Stetson') but there aren't a lot of definitive statements we can make that are actually backed by Stetson documentation. So we would have to come up with our own editorial standards.

 

[Frunobulax]

I wouldn't try to bite off too much at first. Start off small and targeted and let it grow organically.

Start with a few basics, such as brand histories, and go from there.

FL teams of 2-3 can take a topic and work it. As a new subject arises, form a small team for research and vetting. These teams become responsible for the vetting of future entries.

Rinse and repeat.

For this to work, it would be nice to recruit some experts back to the fold. The Professor's input is necessary, for one.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[Rmccamey]

And I would strongly encourage you to get formal approval from someone in authority at TFL. It would be ashamed to spend a lot of time and effort only to get to the point of publishing and some administrator decides they are not in favor of the idea and does not allow it to go forward. Stranger things have happened. Some people in high places get very petty, vindictive, and territorial when they are not "consulted" on a new idea.

 

[Rmccamey]

Matt Deckard also comes to mind.

For this to work, it would be nice to recruit some experts back to the fold. The Professor's input is necessary, for one.

 

[Just Daniel]

Bumping this one back up - any input from the powers that be on building a Fedora Lounge wiki? Let’s do it!

 

[Andykev]

This was first opined by a member in 2010..and nothing came of it. Now resurrected. This "concept" would be an enormous undertaking. Would it be just "Hats", or "Leather Jackets", or "The Golden Era".... see?

The Lounge has been up and running quite successfully for about 15 + years or so. It is a wonderful interactive resource. We have tons of information, photos, and user comments and content.

Duplication may serve no purpose. In fact, if you Google some aspect/topic of what is generally discussed in the Lounge, you can find lots of references and good information.

 

[Just Daniel]

Thanks for answering! Of course a wiki would include lots of topics near and dear to the Fedora Loungers’ hearts! A one topic beta test might not be too bad?

From my standpoint, the Lounge would open a wiki-format page and let members of a certain standing create and edit the pages. Pages would reference back to the discussion board. It would be an all-volunteer and self-monitoring process. A beta test would certainly show its true value very quickly.

An extra aside: a wiki would also provide a great place for a google ad if by chance you are looking for a little revenue.

Thanks again for answering, the wiki model has proven strong and I am sure we can turn it into something valuable for the Fedora Lounge.

All the best,
Daniel

This was first opined by a member in 2010..and nothing came of it. Now resurrected. This "concept" would be an enormous undertaking. Would it be just "Hats", or "Leather Jackets", or "The Golden Era".... see?

The Lounge has been up and running quite successfully for about 15 + years or so. It is a wonderful interactive resource. We have tons of information, photos, and user comments and content.

Duplication may serve no purpose. In fact, if you Google some aspect/topic of what is generally discussed in the Lounge, you can find lots of references and good information.