Fashion brands leather jackets: Is it worth the price tag?

[Mich486]

It’s original but the size tag explains the price.

These old real McCoy’s are usually tagged with barely no chest allowance. So a 34 will be like 18” p2p max.

Great jacket though, really nice design.

 

[David Reza]

It’s original but the size tag explains the price.

These old real McCoy’s are usually tagged with barely no chest allowance. So a 34 will be like 18” p2p max.

Great jacket though, really nice design.

Then the Old Real McCoys run small? I'm kinda slim so maybe could be even better =D

 

[Mcu]

I think old RMC × Harley pieces are very much different than new RMCs. They were produced in New Zealand with no particularly interesting hide such as Shinki in new RMCs. They were not as obsessive in quality as today's Real McCoys. I am not saying they are bad but they could be in a different league even just due to the cost of production.

 

[Aloysius]

I strongly disagree. You're making a faulty generalization imo.

Of course you're paying for the brandname when buying luxury fashion, but the same holds for jackets made by companies we discuss here on TFL. I could name The Flat Head or Fine Creek, which I think are way too expensive for what they are in terms of quality (personal opinion). But I could also name Himel or RMC, which are generally speaking well built jackets but no doubt they're (heavily) capitalizing on their brand name. Just look at all non-leather jacket related stuff they put their name on in order to sell it for a premium.

Completely agree. I mean part of RMC's strategy is to (even in Japan) just charge significantly more than their competition. An RMC MA-1 is not better than a BR MA-1, let alone twice as good. Likewise, Eastman found that their far east sales go up when they raise the price, because they are perceived as more luxurious.

Brand price inflation within subcultures (like ours) is arguably even more effective than that of well known brands because it is easy for us to delude ourselves into thinking we're paying for something. Entire stores like RMC UK, Standard & Strange, and others are built on this ability for self-delusion and willingness to get fleeced, as you can tell by their copy. One of these stores had an essay length description for its Japanese schoolgirl backpack.

Or Aero Leathers and Simmons Bilt. I would say their jackets are similar in terms of quality of materials used and construction. Yet Aero is able to ask a couple of hundred more for their jackets. Why? Could it be because they have a more desirable brand name? So how are the makers we discussed here on tfl any different from luxury fashion companies?

Okay, we know the reason for this particular difference; SB wants to drive their former victims/employers out of business. And you'll notice that the Simmons Bilt collabs with hipster fashion victim shops are above Aero prices.

Why? Luxury fashion companies can make great jackets too. This Ralph Lauren jacket is better made than most of the Aero's I've handled. This is just one example but there are many more.

View attachment 387327 View attachment 387328

My point is, when it comes to quality there's no general rule why one should favor non-fashion makers over jackets made by fashion companies.

RL is a particularly good example because he was basically the original repro brand. Back in the 70s he was making full on 1930s suits and casualwear, which anyone else would have considered hopelessly wrongheaded. To this day the material and design choices are extremely deliberate, and not only in the pure enthusiast lines like RRL and RLPL. (RIP Black Label, which was my favourite. The Anthony cut, as you can tell by the name, was literally based on the work of the tailor Anthony Sinclair of 60s London. That is a pretty inside-baseball reference for a brand to make! The most embarrassing thing is there's now an internet brand that calls itself 'Anthony Sinclair' and promises 'authentic Anthony Sinclair suits', to fleece Bond fans, as though Mr Sinclair's tailoring skills came from his name…)

Then the Old Real McCoys run small? I'm kinda slim so maybe could be even better =D

Original RMC (the made in NZ) stuff wasn't comically sized, AFAIK. It's the current brand RMC that was (and still is for many products) ridiculously undersized.

It is not a matter of 'slimness'; they are literally significantly smaller than tagged size, so they literally won't fit around your body if you are that size. I'm talking size 44 jackets that measure 38 inches around.

I think old RMC × Harley pieces are very much different than new RMCs. They were produced in New Zealand with no particularly interesting hide such as Shinki in new RMCs. They were not as obsessive in quality as today's Real McCoys. I am not saying they are bad but they could be in a different league even just due to the cost of production.

The NZ stuff is preferable to the reborn RMC.

 

[David Reza]

Completely agree. I mean part of RMC's strategy is to (even in Japan) just charge significantly more than their competition. An RMC MA-1 is not better than a BR MA-1, let alone twice as good. Likewise, Eastman found that their far east sales go up when they raise the price, because they are perceived as more luxurious.

Brand price inflation within subcultures (like ours) is arguably even more effective than that of well known brands because it is easy for us to delude ourselves into thinking we're paying for something. Entire stores like RMC UK, Standard & Strange, and others are built on this ability for self-delusion and willingness to get fleeced, as you can tell by their copy. One of these stores had an essay length description for its Japanese schoolgirl backpack.



Okay, we know the reason for this particular difference; SB wants to drive their former victims/employers out of business. And you'll notice that the Simmons Bilt collabs with hipster fashion victim shops are above Aero prices.



RL is a particularly good example because he was basically the original repro brand. Back in the 70s he was making full on 1930s suits and casualwear, which anyone else would have considered hopelessly wrongheaded. To this day the material and design choices are extremely deliberate, and not only in the pure enthusiast lines like RRL and RLPL. (RIP Black Label, which was my favourite. The Anthony cut, as you can tell by the name, was literally based on the work of the tailor Anthony Sinclair of 60s London. That is a pretty inside-baseball reference for a brand to make! The most embarrassing thing is there's now an internet brand that calls itself 'Anthony Sinclair' and promises 'authentic Anthony Sinclair suits', to fleece Bond fans, as though Mr Sinclair's tailoring skills came from his name…)



Original RMC (the made in NZ) stuff wasn't comically sized, AFAIK. It's the current brand RMC that was (and still is for many products) ridiculously undersized.

It is not a matter of 'slimness'; they are literally significantly smaller than tagged size, so they literally won't fit around your body if you are that size. I'm talking size 44 jackets that measure 38 inches around.



The NZ stuff is preferable to the reborn RMC.

Why you think that? I would like to know your opinion

 

[David Reza]

Why you think that? I would like to know your opinion

I mean about that the NZ stuff it's preferable to the reborn RMC

 

[Fifty150]

It was Nineteen-Eighty-Something. I was still a kid. Just hanging out at The Bar. I lived a half block up the street. There was a leather store on that block. I didn't know anything back then. I remember going into the shop. Just to browse. The guy there asked me to take off my jacket and show it to him. He studied it. Back in those days, I had no idea what he was looking at. He asked me where I got the jacket. I told him. He looked like he was deep in thought for a few seconds. He told me to look around the shop, and let him know if there was anything I liked. Then he told me that I didn't need to buy anything, because my jacket was very good, and that I could probably wear it the rest of my life if I don't gain weight. That guy was right. I still have that jacket. The shop was Michael Hoban North Beach Leather. A fashion boutique. As I recall, the prices were so high, that they had a motorcycle jacket which cost more than my motorcycle.

Are fashion brands worth it? I don't know. While I was in the little shoppe, I met a girl who was there to shop. She had the money to shop there. A college student from Hillsborough. She was wearing a leather bra with studs, and no shirt. So very 1980-something.

 

[Fifty150]

Overwhelmingly, members of The Fedora Lounge favor Johnson Leather as the choice in San Francisco. I live here in San Francisco. Several other members are in The Bay Area. Has anyone bought a jacket from West Coast Leather? I've walked by. I've window shopped. I knew that the sticker prices were more than I was willing to spend. Same way I think that no car is worth buying above a certain price point. I just won't spend that much on a jacket. Whereas other guys would spend more than that. That's a personal prejudice. For me, a leather jacket has to protect me from the elements, and/or a slide on the pavement. Not every jacket has to be good enough for a motorcycle ride. But it should at least be able to resist the wind and rain, so that I can ride the bus in inclement weather.

https://www.westcoastleather.com/collections/mens-jackets

 

[Aloysius]

Overwhelmingly, members of The Fedora Lounge favor Johnson Leather as the choice in San Francisco. I live here in San Francisco. Several other members are in The Bay Area. Has anyone bought a jacket from West Coast Leather? I've walked by. I've window shopped. I knew that the sticker prices were more than I was willing to spend. Same way I think that no car is worth buying above a certain price point. I just won't spend that much on a jacket. Whereas other guys would spend more than that. That's a personal prejudice. For me, a leather jacket has to protect me from the elements, and/or a slide on the pavement. Not every jacket has to be good enough for a motorcycle ride. But it should at least be able to resist the wind and rain, so that I can ride the bus in inclement weather.

https://www.westcoastleather.com/collections/mens-jackets

Wow, this is truly awful. I can't say anything about their build quality, which may well be great (or not), but at a visual level this looks like the worst mall jackets imaginable… with a price tag to make bespoke makers with high end leathers blush.

EDIT: Adding an example:

 

[Fifty150]

You don't like the sewn on hood?

 

[Monitor]

Wow, this is truly awful. I can't say anything about their build quality, which may well be great (or not), but at a visual level this looks like the worst mall jackets imaginable… with a price tag to make bespoke makers with high end leathers blush.

EDIT: Adding an example:

Plainly worse than current Zara/H&M and in every possible aspect. All the issues aside, who the hell designs this!?

 

[Aloysius]

Plainly worse than current Zara/H&M and in every possible aspect. All the issues aside, who the hell designs this!?

The patterning on a mass market brand like H&M or Zara is likely to be better (and then Uniqlo patterning is on another level).

This somehow looks cheaper than those discount brands while costing as much as an Aero/Schott or two Johnson/Vanson jackets. To say nothing of Five Star!

 

[Blackadder]

Completely agree. I mean part of RMC's strategy is to (even in Japan) just charge significantly more than their competition. An RMC MA-1 is not better than a BR MA-1, let alone twice as good. Likewise, Eastman found that their far east sales go up when they raise the price, because they are perceived as more luxurious.




RL is a particularly good example because he was basically the original repro brand. Back in the 70s he was making full on 1930s suits and casualwear, which anyone else would have considered hopelessly wrongheaded. To this day the material and design choices are extremely deliberate, and not only in the pure enthusiast lines like RRL and RLPL. (RIP Black Label, which was my favourite. The Anthony cut, as you can tell by the name, was literally based on the work of the tailor Anthony Sinclair of 60s London. That is a pretty inside-baseball reference for a brand to make! The most embarrassing thing is there's now an internet brand that calls itself 'Anthony Sinclair' and promises 'authentic Anthony Sinclair suits', to fleece Bond fans, as though Mr Sinclair's tailoring skills came from his name…)



Original RMC (the made in NZ) stuff wasn't comically sized, AFAIK. It's the current brand RMC that was (and still is for many products) ridiculously undersized.

It is not a matter of 'slimness'; they are literally significantly smaller than tagged size, so they literally won't fit around your body if you are that size. I'm talking size 44 jackets that measure 38 inches around.



The NZ stuff is preferable to the reborn RMC.

I think you are right about MA-1s but some RMC repros are better than BR at least better looking e.g. the deep navy dye RM uses on their nylon looks better than BR's. I have both the RM and BR N-1 and I find the materials used on RM more refined and comfortable. I also have B-15s from both companies and the mouton collar on the RM feels finer. My BR M-42 jump jacket is lighter and thinner than the RM's. However you are also right about RM may not be twice as good. Just as Langlitz may not be twice as good as Vanson. Someone suggested the law of diminishing returns a while back when a similar topic came up.

RL made some good stuffs up to around 2010s then they have gone downhill. They started using cheaper materials. I had a braided leather belt since college then I bought a new one a few years ago. Cheap split leather is now used. Colour seems to be coated in stead of dyed. And not only the low end RL, the RRL and RLPL too. I bought my first RLPL suit in the 90s, a chalk stripe cashmere wool blend three piece and it is one of my all time favourite. I cannot find anything similar in terms of quality at the RLPL after 2010.

Sizing is all over the place with RM old or new. RMC's jackets made by the Few are great. I would not say they are preferrable in general but they are also not inferior. Too bad they are gone now. I would love to get another A-2 from the Few.

 

[Aloysius]

I think you are right about MA-1s but some RMC repros are better than BR at least better looking e.g. the deep navy dye RM uses on their nylon looks better than BR's. I have both the RM and BR N-1 and I find the materials used on RM more refined and comfortable. I also have B-15s from both companies and the mouton collar on the RM feels finer. My BR M-42 jump jacket is lighter and thinner than the RM's. However you are also right about RM may not be twice as good. Just as Langlitz may not be twice as good as Vanson. Someone suggested the law of diminishing returns a while back when a similar topic came up.

I think the differences between BR and (modern) RMC military jackets come down to BR going for as accurate a reproduction as possible, whereas modern RMC takes a much more "inspired by" approach. I don't think this was the case as much with the original RMC (which of course collaborated with BR on these projects).

I prefer BR's approach of having both the 'pure' repro options and civilianized options so that you have the choice. And of course, being 6'1", the fact that BR will repro original-spec (thus American) sizes is a big bonus, lol, compared to RMC size 40 that measure 18 inches across.

RL made some good stuffs up to around 2010s then they have gone downhill. They started using cheaper materials. I had a braided leather belt since college then I bought a new one a few years ago. Cheap split leather is now used. Colour seems to be coated in stead of dyed. And not only the low end RL, the RRL and RLPL too. I bought my first RLPL suit in the 90s, a chalk stripe cashmere wool blend three piece and it is one of my all time favourite. I cannot find anything similar in terms of quality at the RLPL after 2010.

I think there are still some gems that pop up at RL, though for the price of some of them (especially the RLPL ones), it just makes more sense to go bespoke. But they have a market that is ready to buy them at that price.

Sizing is all over the place with RM old or new. RMC's jackets made by the Few are great. I would not say they are preferrable in general but they are also not inferior. Too bad they are gone now. I would love to get another A-2 from the Few.

I think this is fair. I'm largely pushing back against the people who out of pure Japanophilia insist that the original NZ stuff was bad quality.

 

[milandro]

found , in the Netherlands , a very nice DKNY made for Macy's jacket was a great buy! the leather is very soft and comfortable to wear and fits very nicely. Made in China...but very well made. I previously had a Schott but that one had to go since I lost quite a bit of weight. It's informal but you can wear it also in a more for lam setting and won't look out of place. The cuffs are zipped too , no buttons.

 

[Marc mndt]

found , in the Netherlands , a very nice DKNY made for Macy's jacket was a great buy! the leather is very soft and comfortable to wear and fits very nicely. Made in China...but very well made. I previously had a Schott but that one had to go since I lost quite a bit of weight. It's informal but you can wear it also in a more for lam setting and won't look out of place. The cuffs are zipped too , no buttons. View attachment 528988 View attachment 528989

I would have sticked to Schott.

 

[Blackadder]

I would have sticked to Schott.

I still have the leather perfecto vest from DKNY's first season of menswear. Bought it back in the early 90s as said the first season they lauched the men's collection. It was made in USA. The same model in distressed leather in second season was already made in China.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Every jacket is a fashion statement...

When we buy branded anything, we are not just paying for the actual product but also the brand. The only problem is there are no generic brand leather jackets that is the same quality level as the branded ones. And the well known brands really charge a lot of premium for their branding...

 

[milandro]

I would have sticked to Schott.

Don't worry , I have more than one jacket



this DKNY convinced me because of the nice quality. Real good Nappa letter. Feels really nice. The overall quality is down to the quality control of the American Store and, as long as that one is kept high, the fact that it may be produced in China makes it affordable but not any less of quality.

I bought this at shop which sells also Schott. They are an international outlet with an assortment of premium brands from around the world and the prices are often reasonable.


BTW the pictures above ar stock found on line, I am not that young.....

 

[red devil]

Every jacket is a fashion statement...

When we buy branded anything, we are not just paying for the actual product but also the brand. The only problem is there are no generic brand leather jackets that is the same quality level as the branded ones. And the well known brands really charge a lot of premium for their branding...

There are no generic leather jackets, they all come with a name one way or another. You as the customer decide if you want to pay for that name or not. The owner of the name will charge what he thinks that name is worth. The market will decide if he is succesful ot not.