Famous People in Flight Jackets

[Treetopflyer]

Before he was driving a Lincoln. From 'U-571'

 

[TXFlyGuy]

I think we can leave the pic of Bill with the unseemly comment for just this reason.

Doc Damage did not post the picture with the intention of disparaging Japanese people. His intention is the jacket. It's a historical poster. It is disparaging and ugly but that's our history.

I think removing the picture because of one word, which is not the point of the picture, is similar to telling children not to read Huckleberry Finn because one word of the text is very rightfully offensive.

Let's all take a step back, take a deep breath, and give the political jabs a break.

Ask yourself what was the intent of the poster in WWII? So as long as the subject is wearing the correct attire, and it is historically correct, anything goes? No matter who it offends? I thought this forum was beyond this sort of behavior.

Bottom line. Racial slurs of any kind, past present or future, are inappropriate. And we do not care about the historical matter.Especially in today's environment. Doc should have done a better job of editing his selection.

It is sad that this is allowed, especially here.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Oh come on...it was the feeling at a time when we were at war and atrocities by the Japanese military where happening on daily bases. My Uncle was hung in a tree..tortured..and disemboweled. How do you think that effected his family and others here at home. Much worse depictions of that vicious enemy where depicted during that era. Even some vets alive today and family members haven't gotten over that. However...the true sentiments of WW2 have mostly nothing to do with todays world. I would imagine,though,that families of those that have been burned alive or beheaded lately could quite easily describe those people and actions with what you call slurs. It was a sign of the times then and how it affected our people often suffering great loss.
HD

 

[Big J]

Ask yourself what was the intent of the poster in WWII?

I think you need to ask yourself that question.
But I'd suggest an answer;
It's a piece of wartime propaganda aimed at raising morale and motivating the US public after Pearl Harbor.
You may not be aware, but it was successful. The US and Allies fought the Japanese until 1945, when they won.
That was 70 years ago.
The aim of the poster was to inspire people of the era, it was not created with the aim of ruffling PC feathers 70 years after the fact.
I believe that other members are able to see the poster in its historical context.
If you are in possession of a time machine, by all means go back and tell them to choose thier words more carefully.

 

[Stand By]

C'mon guys. The Bar Keep has said to let it go, so let's let it go.
I made what I felt was a harmless (albeit off-topic) remark in support of a couple of comments made and we've been called "ignorant" (as a weekly reader of Stratfor, I'm anything but. And believe me, I intentionally come to the FL daily to relax and briefly escape from the dire and dangerous geo-political manoeuvring of the world) and a "Tea-partyer" (that's a first! Truly) but feel absolutely no need to reply to them, and I'm not going to argue as I'm not looking to fall out with anyone, as this is a happy place to talk about jackets - and we've been told - so let's let it go.

As for the poster, I think it's perfectly fine - just as the allies referred to the Germans as "Jerries", "The Hun", "The Boches" and "Krauts" etc. (I wonder what they called us?!?). I don't believe in historical revisionists in the military modelling hobby either, whereby many kits of Luftwaffe aircraft are now made without swastikas and they have to be purchased separately - and there are no swastikas depicted on the box art - lest it all turns malleable children into fervent neo-nazis? I dunno. Don't ask me the logic on that one. I'll take historical correctness over political correctness at every turn.
I'm very sorry to hear about your uncle there, HD. Man, that's horrendous. That's the sort of thing that stays with you ...

 

[Stand By]

David McCallum in Assignment 2 of Sapphire And Steel (1979).
Very creepy then. Still creepy today. Brilliant TV.

 

[Gromulus]

Oh come on...it was the feeling at a time when we were at war and atrocities by the Japanese military where happening on daily bases. My Uncle was hung in a tree..tortured..and disemboweled. How do you think that effected his family and others here at home. Much worse depictions of that vicious enemy where depicted during that era. Even some vets alive today and family members haven't gotten over that. However...the true sentiments of WW2 have mostly nothing to do with todays world. I would imagine,though,that families of those that have been burned alive or beheaded lately could quite easily describe those people and actions with what you call slurs. It was a sign of the times then and how it affected our people often suffering great loss.
HD

+1

I think you need to ask yourself that question.
But I'd suggest an answer;
It's a piece of wartime propaganda aimed at raising morale and motivating the US public after Pearl Harbor.
You may not be aware, but it was successful. The US and Allies fought the Japanese until 1945, when they won.
That was 70 years ago.
The aim of the poster was to inspire people of the era, it was not created with the aim of ruffling PC feathers 70 years after the fact.
I believe that other members are able to see the poster in its historical context.
If you are in possession of a time machine, by all means go back and tell them to choose thier words more carefully.

+1

Thank you both for the display of common sense.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

What was appropriate 70 years ago is simply not appropriate today. I have family members who are living in Japan. My wife is of Japanese descent. My Dad valiantly fought against Japan in WWII. My Dad would be incensed at the use of any derogatory remark in this regard, whether it is today, or decades ago. Japan is one of the biggest supporters of the USA. Most Japanese citizens are thankful the USA won the war, my father in law sure was.

We live in a time machine...it is called today. For those who are in favor of bigoted racial slurs, you have my sympathy. There are plenty of photos of people wearing whatever...enough that those that include cowardly racial epithets have no place on this forum. It is the responsibility of the individual to edit any material that is offensive to any group of people. This is offensive to me.

It is in extremely poor taste. So I guess this forum is publicly in support of any poster, racist remarks or not, as long as you wear the correct jacket...and it is buffered by a few years passage.

What if a KKK clan rally poster is available from the 50's, with white sheet A-2 clad clan members, and the caption reads..."#@$%*!!
Are you going to allow this too? You have opened up a can of worms here, and it would be wise to remedy the situation before it gets out of hand.

Sad, indeed. And that, my friends, is the rest of the story.

 

[Jim Flynn]

Political correctness gone mad. No part of history should be hidden from view lest it offend modern sensibilities. If that were the case various connotations of the red white and blue would have to be kept in a dark room for all the atrocities carried out under them.

Back on topic, Martin Sheen, http://www.filmjackets.com/current/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/feature_seeking_afateotw.jpg.

 

[devilish]

^This is the truth. We should constantly remind ourselves of the bad parts of human history and nature not just the good. Keeping stuff like this buried allows it to fester and grow. Only to repeat itself again and again. Nothing should be hidden but it should be brought out, looked at and discussed. Which I guess in this case it was, sort of. This is how one learns.

 

[devilish]

Just to keep the thread on topic as well.

I think this photo is probably a repeat but hey, what's not to love about it?

 

[Big J]

What was appropriate 70 years ago is simply not appropriate today. I have family members who are living in Japan. My wife is of Japanese descent. My Dad valiantly fought against Japan in WWII. My Dad would be incensed at the use of any derogatory remark in this regard, whether it is today, or decades ago. Japan is one of the biggest supporters of the USA. Most Japanese citizens are thankful the USA won the war, my father in law sure was.

We live in a time machine...it is called today. For those who are in favor of bigoted racial slurs, you have my sympathy. There are plenty of photos of people wearing whatever...enough that those that include cowardly racial epithets have no place on this forum. It is the responsibility of the individual to edit any material that is offensive to any group of people. This is offensive to me.

It is in extremely poor taste. So I guess this forum is publicly in support of any poster, racist remarks or not, as long as you wear the correct jacket...and it is buffered by a few years passage.

What if a KKK clan rally poster is available from the 50's, with white sheet A-2 clad clan members, and the caption reads..."#@$%*!!
Are you going to allow this too? You have opened up a can of worms here, and it would be wise to remedy the situation before it gets out of hand.

Sad, indeed. And that, my friends, is the rest of the story.

My wife and kids are Japanese. Even they understand that this poster is a piece of history and does not represent the current official opinion of the US.
They understand the context.
Get over yourself, and your self-righteous attempt to force your overly PC attitude onto others. Remember that you are here by your own choice.

 

[Feraud]

What was appropriate 70 years ago is simply not appropriate today. I have family members who are living in Japan. My wife is of Japanese descent. My Dad valiantly fought against Japan in WWII. My Dad would be incensed at the use of any derogatory remark in this regard, whether it is today, or decades ago. Japan is one of the biggest supporters of the USA. Most Japanese citizens are thankful the USA won the war, my father in law sure was.

We live in a time machine...it is called today. For those who are in favor of bigoted racial slurs, you have my sympathy. There are plenty of photos of people wearing whatever...enough that those that include cowardly racial epithets have no place on this forum. It is the responsibility of the individual to edit any material that is offensive to any group of people. This is offensive to me.

It is in extremely poor taste. So I guess this forum is publicly in support of any poster, racist remarks or not, as long as you wear the correct jacket...and it is buffered by a few years passage.

What if a KKK clan rally poster is available from the 50's, with white sheet A-2 clad clan members, and the caption reads..."#@$%*!!
Are you going to allow this too? You have opened up a can of worms here, and it would be wise to remedy the situation before it gets out of hand.

Sad, indeed. And that, my friends, is the rest of the story.

Let me address this one more time and start by clearing up something you seem to misunderstand.
No one here is using, is in favor of, or supports the use of racial slurs towards any group!
Read the comment twice if it hasn't yet sunk in.

Allowing the photo to stand is an example of something distasteful in the context of a larger issue. Treat the example as if you've just come across something in a history book. I shouldn't have to mention we are a site that deals with history..

Again, do not misconstrue or attempt to assert there is Lounge sanctioning of that kind of language. Anyone who posts such language with an intent to insult will have their post immediately deleted. If the action is repeated with an antagonistic attitude, the member will be removed. I can guarantee the situation will not get out of hand.

We've all put in enough time clarifying our positions. If you cannot (or choose not to) see the other side of the situation then we can agree to disagree.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Well said bar keep; there is a type of person that has a zealous need to be ethically sounder or more "sensible" than anyone around them. They are usually tone deaf to contex and others. And they rarelyvsee fault in themselves. The fault is always the others.

 

[tropicalbob]

It's the sort of attitude that leads to the appalling editing of old books and films. In " The Retraccion" of the Canterbury Tales, Chaucer writes, "All that is written is for our instruction," quoting St. John. How right.

 

[feltfan]

He probably just took what they issued him. He most likely never gave it a second thought!

Exactly. We should pay extra for jackets from GW and others that are custom fit to NOT fit, to be historically accurate.

 

[Stand By]

The tragic Evil Ed (pre-bite) from Fright Night (1985). "Oh, you're so cooool, Brewster!"
The best vampire to wear an MA-1!

 

[Feraud]

Exactly. We should pay extra for jackets from GW and others that are custom fit to NOT fit, to be historically accurate.

Great point. Historically accurate is not bespoke perfect!

 

[Fanch]

Great point. Historically accurate is not bespoke perfect!

Historically accurate is that all military jackets were issued, and a decent fit was a plus. My USN G-1 issued to me in 1967 had sleeves 2" too short but was told the sleeves were designed to be used in the cockpit with gloves; hence not too short. Most times I wore my G-1 with my regular uniform or jeans rather than with a flight suit and gloves. Even back then I disliked the stork arms feel, more so now. In any case, historically accurate is far from bespoke perfect!

 

[pauleway]

Great point. Historically accurate is not bespoke perfect!

I love my 30's HB's from Aero and AL, but if I could tweak anything on them it would be to add under-arm gussets like the USN/G-1 has. Neither company will do this custom alteration on their Half-Belts.