Factors/Considerations

[Superfluous]

I recently exchanged e-mails with a jacket manufacturer wherein I shared my opinion that the accuracy of a jacket is immaterial. The manufacturer replied that, while I might not care about accuracy, it is critically important to many of his customers and, therefore, he emphasizes accuracy. Separately, in the “Full Grain” thread, certain members shared their unwillingness to purchase a jacket from a manufacturer that heavily promotes his products, but other members stated that the manufacturer’s sales approach was immaterial to them.

When purchasing a non-vintage jacket, and deciding between the myriad of styles and manufacturers currently available, we typically consider, analyze and over-analyze a multitude of factors. This process is anything but formulaic. To the contrary, each of us emphasize and prioritize different factors, thus leading to wildly different choices. I am interested to hear which factors are most commonly emphasized/prioritized by the members here when purchasing a new (non-vintage) jacket. Below is an incomplete list of factors, in no particular order (please feel free to add factors/considerations) as appropriate. Style/design details (e.g., length, cut, pocket location, etc) are excluded from the list of factors because they are jacket dependant and obviously of paramount importance. Given that many/most would likely identify the character/quality of the leather as critically important, I am also removing that obvious focal consideration from the list. Moreover, “fit” is not a factor because that is generally not revealed until the jacket is received

Once you get past the style/design of the jacket and the quality/character of the leather, what is most important to you? Conversely, what factors that others emphasize are not important to you?

Uniqueness
Accuracy (Compared To Original)
Durability / Longevity
Stitching
Hardware
Lining
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record
Customizability
Value Retention / Resale
Manufacturing Location / Where Made
Other

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

Fit.

Pure and simple. I wish I could pull of that short and neat look that is promoted by some members, but the truth of the matter is I'm just a big and fat fellow (6'6" @ 260 lbs).
So - especially in a non-vintage jacket - for me, the fit is where it's at.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Uniqueness - NO
Accuracy (Compared To Original) - SOMEWHAT BUT NOT FANATICAL
Durability / Longevity- YES
Stitching - NO
Hardware - NO
Lining - YES, LIGHTER MATERIALS ONLY
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record - NO
Customizability - SOMEWHAT
Value Retention / Resale- NO
Manufacturing Location / Where Made - NO

 

[ProteinNerd]

I'm guessing I have different views to most here but historical accuracy is not at all important to me. I'm guessing its because I'm not into the Military jackets at all. I really don't care when the "original" pattern was made as long as I like the jacket.

All I consider is:
Do I like it.
Is it different enough to an existing jacket I already have that I won't be essentially doubling up.
Quality of the manufacturer compared to price.
Fit.

 

[Sloan1874]

Interesting questions, as I'd say that if you were to ask me any of these questions a year or more ago, I'd have given you a completely different set of answers.
Uniqueness: I don't think uniqueness is necessarily important, but I like to think that a maker has the ability/talent to put their stamp on a jacket design.
Accuracy: Depends, generally, I won't lose sleep over it, as long it stays true to spirit of the era the design comes from. On the other hand. if we're talking Good Wear money for an A-2, which is widely available for a variety of prices, I would expect it to be as close the jacket to a pilot in 1942 or whatever.
Durability/Longevity: I think anyone dealing in goat/horse/steer has decided that they want something that will take a kicking without falling over.
Stitching: Funnily enough, I've come to appreciate stitching a lot more. Done poorly, can spoil what is an otherwise nice jacket.
Hardware: Personally, if I went to a maker who made a nice period jacket but then plonked a chunky YKK zipper on it, I would be less than impressed, I guess it's a case of god being in the details. A nice repro Talon or Hookless can finish off a jacket in a subtle but distinct way.
Lining: As long as there's a reasonable choice of weights and materials, not a major deal.
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record - Actually, yes. Caveat emptor is a very good point to start from, and if I'm looking at handing £600-plus to somebody and a choice of makers, one of the significant factors in my decision is how easy to work with/reliable/honest that person is perceived to be.
Customizability - On the whole, if I go to a maker, it's because I like their design decisions in the first place, rather than because I want to impose my own, invariably wrong, ideas on it. YMMV
Value Retention / Resale- These are jackets, not cars.
Manufacturing Location / Where Made - Doesn't particularly matter, but it's nice to be able to trip up to the maker and see how the magic works.

 

[zhz]

Here is my answer.

Uniqueness: I dont care at all.
Accuracy (Compared To Original): I am with Sloan on this one. And I dont care about accuracy for a civil jacket at all. Only Military repro Jacket
Durability / Longevity: Yes, but how bad this can be for the jacket we talk about in this forum?
Stitching: Dont know...but a nice stitching do make jacket looks better.
Hardware: Yes I do!! And why Aero uses YKK now??
Lining: Not much, as long as I like it.
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record: Yes, very very much.
Customizability: I am a short small guy, so, in my situation, I do want to customise the size the jacket! But not to build my own pattern.
Value Retention / Resale: I am in the IT industry...
Manufacturing Location / Where Made: A bit, mainly due to the postage.

 

[zhz]

Aero uses YKK as default choice now...sad...
And I think Customizability not just build your own pattern, but also the sizing.

Hardware: Personally, if I went to a maker who made a nice period jacket but then plonked a chunky YKK zipper on it, I would be less than impressed, I guess it's a case of god being in the details. A nice repro Talon or Hookless can finish off a jacket in a subtle but distinct way.

Customizability - On the whole, if I go to a maker, it's because I like their design decisions in the first place, rather than because I want to impose my own, invariably wrong, ideas on it. YMMV

 

[Sloan1874]

Aero uses YKK as default choice now...sad...
And I think Customizability not just build your own pattern, but also the sizing.

Not the last time I looked. I have Talon and a Hookless on all my Aeros - certainly none of them look like they'd be found on a post-60s jacket - and the website describes their zips as Talons. Customisation of size... I'm not sure an inch here or there on cuffs etc is customisation, but if that's what we're talking about, then yeah if I'm paying £600+ I don't want to look like an orangutan.

*edit I guess I took customisation to mean something other than linings, hardware etc, hides because they're already listed. [huh]

 

[zhz]

They used to use Talon, but now is the customised YKK. I looked at my friend's Aero, it has ykk stamped on it. But the good news is they still offer Talon as a customisation option. So from this point, you do need to care about customisation.

Not the last time I looked. I have Talon and a Hookless on all my Aeros - certainly none of them look like they'd be found on a post-60s jacket - and the website describes their zips as Talons. Customisation of size... I'm not sure an inch here or there on cuffs etc is customisation, but if that's what we're talking about, then yeah if I'm paying £600+ I don't want to look like an orangutan.

 

[Hide'n'seek]

Aero uses YKK as default choice now...sad...
And I think Customizability not just build your own pattern, but also the sizing.

Aero uses Triple marked Talon zips as standard and Hookless is standard in some styles but also available as an ungrade in most styles .

Under the old "management" the old style "Aero" zips were manufactured by YKK but we stopped using them and changed to Talon over a year ago now .

 

[Sloan1874]

Aero uses Triple marked Talon zips as standard and Hookless is standard in some styles but also available as an ungrade in most styles .

Under the old "management" the old style "Aero" zips were manufactured by YKK but we stopped using them and changed to Talon over a year ago now .

Thanks for the clarification, and good to know!

 

[Plumbline]

For me ...


Uniqueness .. perhaps ( depends what I'm buying)
Accuracy (Compared To Original) ... not really
Durability / Longevity ... yup but probably down the list
Stitching ... see above ... I'd certainly expect it to be well made and not fall apart but I have never asked for any peculiar stitching or stitching colour
Hardware ... somewhat ... so long as it's decent quality then it's all Ok
Lining .. so long as theres choice I'm OK
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record
.. yup
Customizability .. yup ( pretty high up there TBH)
Value Retention / Resale ... somewhat ( I'd assume all quality manufacturers have a reasonable resale .... I've bought 2nd hand Aero's from anywhere from £60 to £450 ..... I'm more interested in trade in facilities TBH ( ebay is a PAIN when selling)
Manufacturing Location / Where Made ... more HOW and by whom
Other

Delivery .... I HATE waiting long times for jackets it's my number 1. pet hate.


The others would be :

Hide choice

So I'd put Delivery Wait Times, Hide Choice and Customisation as my top 3 swiftly followed by Quality of Construction and Customer Service.

HTH

 

[Monitor]

Uniqueness - Yes and no, depends on a garment.
Accuracy (Compared To Original) - Yes and no. Combined with the above. I like period pieces but I'll definitely sacrifice complete accuracy for some small, unique detail I happen to like.
Durability / Longevity - Most important factor for me.
Stitching - As long as it's quality, I'm fine.
Hardware - Ditto
Lining - Not much of an issue
Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record - Depends on the amount of money I intend to give away so for $500+ garments yes, definitely.
Customizability - Yes, but also what Sloan said.
Value Retention / Resale - I never think about it...
Manufacturing Location / Where Made - See 'Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record'

 

[zhz]

Thanks for clear this out. This is good to know

Aero uses Triple marked Talon zips as standard and Hookless is standard in some styles but also available as an ungrade in most styles .

Under the old "management" the old style "Aero" zips were manufactured by YKK but we stopped using them and changed to Talon over a year ago now .

 

[Sloan1874]

For me ...


Delivery .... I HATE waiting long times for jackets it's my number 1. pet hate.

HTH

*John Chapman crosses Plumbline off his 'possible customer' list and sighs*

 

[Tomasso]

My chief concern would be the maker. I want to know everything about them, their history and their product. My leather maker of choice is family owned and operated for over 175 years. They began with equestrian leather goods (harnesses, bridles, saddles and such) before making their first leather jackets in 1918. That jacket was also the first garment (of any kind) to employ the use of a zipper. Throughout their entire history their standards have been recognized to be unsurpassed. They are the benchmark in their field and, given my druthers, I prefer dealing with the benchmark types of any given field of endeavor. While it's not always possible or practical to use these sorts, recognition is useful for purpose of comparison.

 

[Plumbline]

*John Chapman crosses Plumbline off his 'possible customer' list and sighs*

he makes beautiful repro's .... but I'm not waiting over a year for a jacket ... EVER

For some it's part of the process .... and it builds the anticipation .... for me it just leads to frustration and by the time I get it I've moved on to something else and I don't really "gel" with it ( and I do believe you gel or become familiar with an item of clothing through wear .... it becomes sort of something which you closely associate with and which is associated with you !

I'm sure John won't lose sleep over my lost orders

 

[zhz]

Which maker is this??

My chief concern would be the maker. I want to know everything about them, their history and their product. My leather maker of choice is family owned and operated for over 175 years. They began with equestrian leather goods (harnesses, bridles, saddles and such) before making their first leather jackets in 1918. That jacket was also the first garment (of any kind) to employ the use of a zipper. Throughout their entire history their standards have been recognized to be unsurpassed. They are the benchmark in their field and, given my druthers, I prefer dealing with the benchmark types of any given field of endeavor. While it's not always possible or practical to use these sorts, recognition is useful for purpose of comparison.

 

[armscye]

I've worked on restorations of vintage cars, and found that accuracy is often a rabbit hole that can end up being bottomless and formless-- there is always a detail that is questionable, an "incorrect" part that turns out to have been in fact correct, and a level of detail that is one step beyond what you've got. So I would join with others in saying that the spirit of authenticity is more important than the endless search for absolute accuracy-- I won't sweat the color of the thread or whether the label contract number is accurate.

 

[Worf]

Interesting thread... I'll play!

Uniqueness - Has come to mean more to me over the years. I'm not interested in mass produced "Mall Jackets". If it's mine... let it be MINE!

Accuracy (Compared To Original) - Not that big a deal as long as its in the ball park, I'm not stitch counter.

Durability / Longevity - Big guy, big shoulders big arms and I wear my Jackets A LOT. I do things in them (yard work, driving etc...) I can't have stitches poping and linings coming loose.

Stitching - I like contrasting stitching, helps make jackets.. unique.

Hardware - Long as it functions and is durable. One manufacturer charged me for a Talon zip but gave me a re-stamped YKK and it broke within 6 months. I've not talked to that maker since.

Lining - This has become more important to me as time has gone one. The lining is your interface with the jacket. I don't care how good something looks if it feels like a hairsuit every time you wear it... what good is it?

Manufacturer Character / Reputation / Track Record - This is VERY important to me. I've been dissappointed in the past, nobody's pulled a Mark Moye on me but it's been nip and tuck a couple of times. A $200 used jacket on Ebay is one thing.... a $12 to $1,500 jacket is quite another altogether. Reputation and character matter.

Customizability - Low on the scale of importance.

Value Retention / Resale - I generally am pretty hard on my jackets soooo not much resale value anyway.

Manufacturing Location / Where Made - Not important, good work can be found anywhere. Either the person is a craftsman or their not.

Other... Communication - This is VERY important to me. I don't bother makers much but when I'm ploppin' down the long green I expect... no DEMAND some common courtesy. I don't care if you're the personal jacket maker to the High Panjandrum of Poobahville... don't make me feel like you're doing ME a FAVOR by taking my money.... I don't stand for that.

Worf