Experience of service in the Armed Forces

[a2jacketpatches]

A short time in the USAF Strategic Air Command just after HS before it was disbanded in 1992. It took me out of the little New England town I grew up in and introduced me to the world. Turned me from a kid into a young man. Really taught me to respect those who deserve it and stand up to those who don't. I live by "Lead, follow, or get out of the way"

 

[heron163]

I met people, experienced things, and went to places that no civilian type activity would ever take me...

I would not trade that time for anything. It has enabled me greatly in my life and career.

 

[Ticklishchap]

4) The guys who just showed up for the "fun"of it--like me.

Was it just a spontaneous decision when you got to college, or did you already have military interests/background?

 

[ChiTownScion]

My military experience was almost a joke.

I reported to Marine OCS (MCDEC Quantico) after law school graduation and passing the bar. I was a few months shy of the cut off age of 27, and my BP was through the roof over the anxiety of it. I had trained for months for the physical aspect of it: running, push- ups, pull-ups, and sit ups, likely the best I was physically in my life. Alas, I was found INPQ (Initially Not Physically Qualified) and given an honorable discharge- two whole weeks in at the pay rate of E-5. The major commanding OCS shook my hand, and I was a civilian again.

It did open a very important door for me. I ended up working as a public defender in Chicago, and lasted there over 30 years. By my guesstimation, my current pension exceeds that which I would have earned had I retired after 30 years as a full colonel. Yeah, I know..."money isn't everything"... but you can't tell me that most lifers aren't looking forward to pulling that pin and retiring. What many don't realize is that retirement income for the military is computed upon base pay, and thus those allowances upon which one depends are not part of the computation. Anyway, I have had a great life with what I finally ended up doing.

Had I a chance to do it all over, I think I would have just swallowed my dumb pride and insistence upon going Marine Corps and taken a direct commission in the Army JAG Corps. I was pretty bullheaded about "earning my bars like everyone else" back then, and I now see that as part of the folly of youth. I'll say this also: as a public defender I had the pleasure of pulling a few Marines over the years (active and formerly active) from the jaws of prosecutorial abuse. And despite all of the hype, I had far better courtroom and other professional experience than the military could have given in the same years.

Met some good people in that brief two weeks. Most of the other candidates were focused and dedicated: a few were immature jerks, and that's pretty much what you'd find anywhere. I wasn't all that impressed by the officers that I encountered (particularly one ring knocker), but many of the Marine NCOs were quite remarkable. Most were college grads and a few had grad degrees. Granted, this was OCS... so I can't say that it reflected the Corps as a whole early 1980's.

 

[Guttersnipe]

What many don't realize is that retirement income for the military is computed upon base pay, and thus those allowances upon which one depends are not part of the computation.

There are also tiers based on years of service. My Grandfather's experience with this was brutal. In 1937, while a junior in college, he was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the U.S. Army Reserve (in those days, R.O.T.C. cadets received their commissions one year before graduation). Once he graduated college in 1938, he immediately transferred to the regular army and applied to flight school, which he completed in 1939. Then, in 1967, after being passed over for promotion to brigadier general, he was forcibly retired before he could reach 30 years of service (back then, they didn't include time in the reserve when calculating years of service for pension purposes). As a result, he retired as a full colonel from the U.S. Air Force with 29 years of service, and a significantly smaller pension. I've always thought that was s****y way to treat someone who gave 33 years of service to his county (if you count R.O.T.C.) and served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

Met some good people in that brief two weeks. Most of the other candidates were focused and dedicated: a few were immature jerks, and that's pretty much what you'd find anywhere. I wasn't all that impressed by the officers that I encountered (particularly one ring knocker), but many of the Marine NCOs were quite remarkable. Most were college grads and a few had grad degrees. Granted, this was OCS... so I can't say that it reflected the Corps as a whole early 1980's.

My other Grandfather's experience as specialized professional in the U.S. Army might be worth considering. He was drafted in 1940 into the U.S. Army Medical Corps and discharged as a major in 1946. He met a lot of really great doctors while serving as an army surgeon, but found most of them were like himself, civilians temporarily in uniform. He also found most of the regular army doctors he met -- particularly the majors and above -- to be nothing more than bureaucrats without the skills or expertise to make it in civilian practice. However, he was always proud to have left a lucrative civilian practice (albeit by conscription) and served his country in WWII.

 

[skydog757]

Joined the Air Force soon after high school, 1975. I lived in a small rural town in Michigan and, if not for my choice to serve, would probably still be working there in some menial job or have died of misadventure long ago. The service gave me everything; training, experience, a college education, maturity, confidence and pride. It has opened doors for me in my career and has opened up dialogues with others who have served. It made me think about people other than myself and exposed me to personalities that I never really believed existed in real life (good, bad and ugly). All you have to do is visit the various museums in Washington DC and you'll soon realize how vital our military is to the history of this country. There are many days that I question why I chose to only serve one hitch, but I have found many other ways to serve my country.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Joined the Air Force soon after high school, 1975. I lived in a small rural town in Michigan and, if not for my choice to serve, would probably still be working there in some menial job or have died of misadventure long ago. The service gave me everything; training, experience, a college education, maturity, confidence and pride. It has opened doors for me in my career and has opened up dialogues with others who have served. It made me think about people other than myself and exposed me to personalities that I never really believed existed in real life (good, bad and ugly). All you have to do is visit the various museums in Washington DC and you'll soon realize how vital our military is to the history of this country. There are many days that I question why I chose to only serve one hitch, but I have found many other ways to serve my country.

Very well said, I repeat, VERY well said.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I'm interested, how much real the scenes of basic-training and Gunnery Sgt. Hartman in FMJ are. Could someone tell about?

Did you have experience of National Service?

 

[Trenchfriend]

No, I was freed of national-service, because noticed as "unfit of military service".

 

[Ticklishchap]

No, I was freed of national-service, because noticed as "unfit of military service".

Several of my German friends at university managed that. Several others did Army service and quite enjoyed it and one did community service.

 

[JimWagner]

US Navy, 1965-1969. I partied my way through 3 months of college and all my savings and joined up.

Yes, there was a draft at the time and I would have been drafted anyway, but in my family most of the men since WWII either had served or would serve and there was never any doubt in my mind that I'd serve too. It was just something you did. Never even crossed my mind that getting out of the draft was an option.

I got a college level education in electronics in the Navy and both repaired and operated anti-submarine warfare equipment as an air crewman on P-2 Neptunes and P-3 Orions. Went all over the Atlantic, from Iceland to the Azores, hunting Russian subs. Met crew from other NATO countries. Met a lot of people in the service that I'd have never met otherwise, good and bad. It was my first exposure to just how differenly people from other parts of the country and the world in general saw the world. The experience changed how I saw the world and how I saw myself.

When I got out I used the GI Bill to go back to college and that time it was a breeze. I had learned how to LISTEN in Navy schools and be self disciplined.

I married the beautiful women I met in college the weekend after we graduated. We're still married after 43 years, 2 children and 2 grandkids. We both became computer programmers and had 40+ year careers. Now we're retired.

Almost everything success I've had since getting out of the Navy in 1969 can be traced in some way straight back to what I learned and experienced during those 4 years. My path through life would have been very different without serving. Better or worse - who knows? But certainly different.

I went to a squadron reunion a couple of years ago and reconnected with a number of guys I hadn't seen since 1969. It was both amazing and gratifying to see just how many of them, both those who stayed in and those who did 4 years, had had succesful lives built on that foundation of serving in the military.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Yes, there was a draft at the time and I would have been drafted anyway, but in my family most of the men since WWII either had served or would serve and there was never any doubt in my mind that I'd serve too. It was just something you did. Never even crossed my mind that getting out of the draft was an option.


Almost everything success I've had since getting out of the Navy in 1969 can be traced in some way straight back to what I learned and experienced during those 4 years. My path through life would have been very different without serving. Better or worse - who knows? But certainly different..

Thanks for a interesting and really inspiring post.

 

[Edward]

Several of my German friends at university managed that. Several others did Army service and quite enjoyed it and one did community service.

It's one reason many people do a further degree abroad. I've certainly had Italian postgraduate students who saw avoiding obligatory military service - as they put it, "eighteen months of cleaning toilets" - as being as much of a benefit as the career boost to be had from a high-quality postgraduate degree ffrom one of the top EU institutions.

 

[Ticklishchap]

It's one reason many people do a further degree abroad. I've certainly had Italian postgraduate students who saw avoiding obligatory military service - as they put it, "eighteen months of cleaning toilets" - as being as much of a benefit as the career boost to be had from a high-quality postgraduate degree ffrom one of the top EU institutions.

Although with many British degrees now it's possible to end up cleaning lavatories or stacking supermarket shelves. ...

 

[Edward]

Although with many British degrees now it's possible to end up cleaning lavatories or stacking supermarket shelves. ...

It can happen; the difference, I imagine, is that for those student's it's not guaranteed.

 

[Harp]

I met people, experienced things, and went to places that no civilian type activity would ever take me...

I would not trade that time for anything. It has enabled me greatly in my life and career.

"What you do here, see here, meet here, and read here; let it stay here when you leave here."

I would not trade even the worst of it but afterwards the calm and peace of college took some time to get use to.

 

[Ticklishchap]

It can happen; the difference, I imagine, is that for those student's it's not guaranteed.

I was being slightly facetious, although I think that there are quite a number of degrees (in the UK) that don't have all that much intrinsic value and I am struck by the ignorance and mediocrity of a large number of graduates. Although an arts graduate myself, I am disappointed that technical education has not been given the same status as academic training (again my comments refer to the UK). This is one of the main reasons why we have a skill shortage. I am also amazed by the lack of social skills that many UK graduates have compared with their continental European counterparts.
This is not entirely off-topic because so many of the posters here have described learning important skills in the Armed Forces, generally in the period before the cult of 'universal university' took hold on both sides of the 'Pond'.

 

[Ticklishchap]

"What you do here, see here, meet here, and read here; let it stay here when you leave here."

I would not trade even the worst of it but afterwards the calm and peace of college took some time to get use to.

Very interesting. I am sure it was one hell of a contrast.

 

[Edward]

I was being slightly facetious, although I think that there are quite a number of degrees (in the UK) that don't have all that much intrinsic value and I am struck by the ignorance and mediocrity of a large number of graduates. Although an arts graduate myself, I am disappointed that technical education has not been given the same status as academic training (again my comments refer to the UK). This is one of the main reasons why we have a skill shortage. I am also amazed by the lack of social skills that many UK graduates have compared with their continental European counterparts.
This is not entirely off-topic because so many of the posters here have described learning important skills in the Armed Forces, generally in the period before the cult of 'universal university' took hold on both sides of the 'Pond'.

I lean to the same view. We have world class univerities in the UK, and others that are not so. I do think there was a big mistake made in emphasising university degrees as "better", as distinct from vocational routes which are very respectable and may well better suit many individuals. The notion that university is about "getting a degree so you can get a better, higher-paying job" has been as damaging to the true value (as opposed to the price) of education as it is erroneous. There's a lot of nonsense commonly put about as fact (see, for instance, the old saw about "golf course management" - no such degree ever existed, though there was a diploma course in the same, run by one former polytechnic, at the behest of local demand, it having been sited beside one of the biggest professional golf clubs in the UK), but yes, there has been an unfortunate impact brought about by, ultimately, middle-class snobbery. Giving all kids who have the aptitude a chance to go to university is laudable; starting from the attitude that that's what they have to do to be a "success" is unhelpful.

I'm constantly very impressed with our own undergraduates in most of the UK institutions of which I've had experience. This in the context of a wider experience of postgraduates from all corners of the globe (I've taught LLM classes with 32 plus different jurisdictions represented). UK kids aren't generally so bad as it's fashionable to believe. That said, they are sometimes behind in some areas, such as willingness to move abroad to further themselves, and certainly language skills. They're much more adult compared to what I've experience in China, even allowing for a very different educational culture. The kids there I teach are, at 22, often more like the way we were at sixteen. I'm not sure what it is that makes them seem immature by comparison - many of them are, of course, academically brilliant and they do go on to great things. Other, differing, cultural factors at work, I guess (most likely Little Emperor Syndrome). My experiences mostly relate to law students, though -I'm sure it can also vary with discipline. Mostly I find they work a hell of a lot harder now than we seemed to back in the 90s, and we certainly weren't slackers.

 

[Smithy]

Mostly I find they work a hell of a lot harder now than we seemed to back in the 90s, and we certainly weren't slackers.

I may very well be wrong but I think that this is because the job market has become even more competitive. Uni students know that a BA alone in some esoteric major is not a ticket to a plum job now. Well that's what my nephew back in NZ tells me and he's intent on working like a Trojan. Not too much time for the pub crawl/arsing about shenanigans that used to go on along with the studying.