Excelled Sheepskin and Leather Company G-1 Jackets

[Deacon211]

There was a period between 1976-1984 in which both Goat or Cow hide could be used. Before that is was Goat only and in 1984, they removed Goat from the specs altogether and replaced it with Cowhide with MIL-J-7823E (AS) Amendment 3. Goatskin cannot be used now in the contract jackets, however a "Goatskin Grain Finish" may be used.

Wow, this thread has blown my mind in at least two different ways.

1. So, are you saying that NO jacket made post 1984 is made of goat? I would have swore that my issued Cooper was goat and the blue label (aftermarket of course) actually says "goatskin" on the label. That would completely change my notions of late era flight jackets!!!

2. That Excelled is really a great fitting jacket! I tried on my Pharr again yesterday and it still fits e like a bag of cats.

I really need to take a moment to process all that. My ideas about what I had, what I have, and how they compare to the originals is completely turned on its head.

 

[nick123]

Here's mine. It was passed to me from my cousin who flew in rescue helos. Pay no attention to the fit! It's four sizes too big! The cow has some gnarly grain!

 

[Peter 1956]

I know the current G1s are not seen as great but I love my Excelleds well made and will last for years!


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[Deacon211]

Actually, the Excelleds really look good on you guys.

But here's two pics in the last two years or so of my Pharr and my Cooper,

To my eye, the Cooper looks so much better on me than the Pharr. Some of it is cut, but some is just the droopiness of the leather.

I look like I'm in my third Trimester in that Pharr!

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[Deacon211]

Wow, this thread has blown my mind in at least two different ways.

1. So, are you saying that NO jacket made post 1984 is made of goat? I would have swore that my issued Cooper was goat and the blue label (aftermarket of course) actually says "goatskin" on the label. That would completely change my notions of late era flight jackets!!!

2. That Excelled is really a great fitting jacket! I tried on my Pharr again yesterday and it still fits e like a bag of cats.

I really need to take a moment to process all that. My ideas about what I had, what I have, and how they compare to the originals is completely turned on its head.

Interestingly, I just spoke with a jacket vendor on eBay regarding one of his issue Coopers (i.e. no blue label which if I understand correctly is a dead giveaway).

The side tag on the Cooper reads that the shell is indeed made of goatskin. So if the post '84 spec does specify cow, there were some makers that were not in compliance at least as far as Coopers go.


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[Skyhawk]

Here's the specs. They are very clear. You can see where Goat (KK-L-170) is on the list of deleted materials, and Cow is added. Also the entire "Outer shell" paragraph 3211 is deleted and replaced with Cow hide specifically (KK-L-162) on the following page:

 

[Deacon211]

Good post. I've no doubt that the spec says that. I'm just saying that the Cooper or two I've seen has a goatskin label in it.

Here's another one. This one looks exactly like the jacket I was issued, down to whatever that cursive "Process" thing that's folded over on the tag says.

Pics borrowed from eBay auction:

 

[Skyhawk]

Yes that is very interesting. This contract jacket has a date of 1991 and is made out of Goat, even though the official specifications removed goat from the materials and replaced it with Cowhide in 1984. Maybe they had an exemption due to some NOS jackets left over in 1984 when the amendment went into effect, and then were allowed to continue for a time.

The specs clearly state the jacket be made "of KKL-L-162" which is clearly Cowhide. The language of the specification seems to completely remove Goat from the specs. and specify only Cowhide for use in the jackets.

I haven't been able to track down Amendment 2 to MIL-J-7823E (AS) but if I remember correctly, it stated that Goat or Cow could be used in the jacket. Amendment 2 went into effect in 1976 through 1984 when it was replaced by the current Amendment 3.

One other important point is that the Amendments are not noted on the spec label like they were in the past, so an Amendment 2 jacket that allows Goat will have the same white spec label that the Amend 3 jacket which doesn't have Goat in the specs. Of course the date will be on the label so you can tell from that.

 

[Deacon211]

I wonder if the spec had an "effective" date? Obviously, the government couldn't expect a vendor to dump the 1000 goat hides that it had and purchase a bunch of steer hides.

I don't know what the contract cycle is on these items, but it could also be that Cooper was the last vendor who won the bid under the old spec and was just grandfathered in. Thus they were bound by whatever spec their contract stated way back when their particular procurement cycle began.

Interesting that cow was required at some point, but that it had to "look" like goat...doesn't that sound like a government operation! LOL!


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[Peter 1956]

Good post. I've no doubt that the spec says that. I'm just saying that the Cooper or two I've seen has a goatskin label in it.

Here's another one. This one looks exactly like the jacket I was issued, down to whatever that cursive "Process" thing that's folded over on the tag says.

Pics borrowed from eBay auction:

Interesting to see Cooper using the newer type of Usn stencil so early?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk And no seam???

 

[Skyhawk]

The perforated USN windflap Started in the late 1950's so it is correct for the time period. Before that it was painted on the back of the collar in white, silver, or black.

The seam I believe is not a big enough deviation from the pattern to be disqualifying. With the other true contract jackets we have seen without the seam, it appears that feature can be overlooked and still meet the specifications. Otherwise there would be no examples of issued jackets without the seam.

 

[Peter 1956]

The perforated USN windflap Started in the late 1950's so it is correct for the time period. Before that it was painted on the back of the collar in white, silver, or black.

The seam I believe is not a big enough deviation from the pattern to be disqualifying. With the other true contract jackets we have seen without the seam, it appears that feature can be overlooked and still meet the specifications. Otherwise there would be no examples of issued jackets without the seam.

What I meant that the Usn is vertical on this one not horizontal


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[bn1966]

I'm seeing Excelled in a new light....lovely Peter

 

[bn1966]

What I meant that the Usn is vertical on this one not horizontal


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Sorry can't help myself, what do the shoulder measurements come in at? Have just been looking at these jackets on evilBay Narrow shoulders are my G-1 deal breakers (too much swimming).

 

[Deacon211]

Yeah, I'm digging the cut on these Excelleds. And if the mil and civil versions are identical....I might have another jacket on the horizon!


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[Peter 1956]

Yeah, I'm digging the cut on these Excelleds. And if the mil and civil versions are identical....I might have another jacket on the horizon!


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What size are you?


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[bn1966]

I'm a 46 (UK) vintage 48 Peter....how are the shoulders measuring up???

 

[Deacon211]

What size are you?


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I am a 46-48, depending on the cut. 46 works if the shoulders are in the 21 in range. For the cuts that are less, everything fits except the shoulders.


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[Peter 1956]

I'm a 46 (UK) vintage 48 Peter....how are the shoulders measuring up???

Will do some measurements for you tomorrow. I am a 38 but in all G1s both new type and older a 40" perfect fit! Will take pics with tape measure so you can see exact points . Where are the crucial parts to measure at several places?


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[Big J]

Well, I'm gonna second Deacon on this- my 91 issue Cooper is goat despite whatever the contract specs say (after all, the seam at the waistband IS in the contract but Cooper seem to have been given a pass on it), and Peter's Excelled looks really good, and I want to try one in a 48!
BTW, there are way too many G-1 threads going on right now!