examples of black suits in the golden age

[mike]

Can anyone share pictures of black suits being worn? Is it true that the color was strictly reserved for evening attire, funerals and self-styled bad men!? I guess what I'm looking for is visual documentation of gangsters and their lot wearing black, or disproving the myth by showing your average working joes wearing black suits. Is this mentioned in any men's fashion commentary from the era?

That story shared in the Teddy Boy thread about how in post war Britain, black was immediately connected to fascists still really resonates with me and I'm looking for further evidence of similar mindsets but in an earlier era.

Was there a line in the sand where black was the epitome of the prior generation that the younger crowd was looking to separate themselves from?

Of course some of this could and would be open to conjecture since most photos are in black and white.

thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Matt Deckard]

I've seen a few. One specific is Marc Chevalier's black double breasted. I've seen a couple other Doble breasted's over the years as well. Black was a pretty common suit color in the 20's. It's conservative. Grey and Navy today are the standard for business wear though before WII you'd see scads of men in solid black suits, residents and the regular Joe.

The black suit also had a pretty good resurgence in the 60's, just watch some of those movies and you'll see them cross the screen now and again. If it has the right cut and shape, it's a great suit.

 

[Dinerman]

I have a black 3 piece peak lapel from 1934, and a black peak lapel from 1961. Both have a lot of wear, so I'd assume they got worn a good deal.

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

Try to get a hold of a copy of Everyday Fashions of the Thirties, which contains copies of Sears catalogue pages. There are also companion books for the twenties, forties, and fifties. I believe you'll find pictures of suits, and IIRC, they list the available colors. The Sears catalogue stuff is what ordinary middle-class folks would be wearing.

ETA: Other good sources would be old magazines, original catalogues, advertisements, etc. You'd have to pore over a lot, but that's the best way if you really want to research it.

 

[mike]

I recently picked up this '39 union tagged beauty....

It's actually black as pitch even though it looks gray in these pictures.

I know black was back in use by the 50's. But I wonder if black in the 30's went hand in hand with an air of danger. Maybe not, I feel like I read it somewhere but can't place it that black was mainly reserved for rough types.

BTW - Matt, you're visiting NY soon?

 

[mike]

Try to get a hold of a copy of Everyday Fashions of the Thirties, which contains copies of Sears catalogue pages. There are also companion books for the twenties, forties, and fifties. I believe you'll find pictures of suits, and IIRC, they list the available colors. The Sears catalogue stuff is what ordinary middle-class folks would be wearing.

ETA: Other good sources would be old magazines, original catalogues, advertisements, etc. You'd have to pore over a lot, but that's the best way if you really want to research it.

thanks for the tip! I will check this out! If you happen to have it handy though, how many options are available in black compared to all the colors of the rainbow?

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

thanks for the tip! I will check this out! If you happen to have it handy though, how many options are available in black compared to all the colors of the rainbow?

I'm afraid I don't have a copy handy! I got mine from the library...and was more interested in the pretty dresses than the suits. lol

 

[mike]

I'm afraid I don't have a copy handy! I got mine from the library...and was more interested in the pretty dresses than the suits. lol

That's ok! I can't blame you lol

 

[GBR]

This does help to lay the silly notion that some subscribe to that black suits are somehow wrong and should never be worn by ordinary people going about their ordinary lives!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've heard this before somewhere …

I
I know black was back in use by the 50's. But I wonder if black in the 30's went hand in hand with an air of danger.

Sounds silly to me. Personally, i would be utterly stunned if black suits were not used in the centres of government and business in the 1930s.

I have two black US-made NRA era 3-piece suits. One DB, one SB. And two black British suits from the early 1940s; again, one SB, one DB.

bk

 

[mike]

Sounds silly to me. Personally, i would be utterly stunned if black suits were not used in the centres of government and business in the 1930s.
bk

Aha! These people could by all means be crooks and have ill will in their hearts, hence it coming out in their choice of fabric! But seriously, you may very well be right! I'd just as much like to dispel an inaccurate view as illustrate a fact.

Also color schemes and what people paired various colors with is something I'd like to look into further. The color photos I've seen from the time often have people pairing interesting colors, especially compared to what colors we usually pair with each other today. I wonder if the issue of color is more of an unconscious social trend than personal taste, as different eras over 100's of years have people drawn to different color combinations that other generations before or after would find garish or awkward.

 

[Rittmeister]

I highly recommend "Men in Black" by John Harvey, a social/cultural history of black clothing on men. He says that in the late 19th and early 20th century, black personified formality, but also came to represent death. Interestingly, he traces the patriotic meanings of black in the early fascist movements, such as the elite arditi units in Italy and the death's head hussars in Germany. I believe it is out of print, but worth tracking down. It is a good example of the changing meanings of color in dress over time.

 

[Geesie]

This does help to lay the silly notion that some subscribe to that black suits are somehow wrong and should never be worn by ordinary people going about their ordinary lives!

Though today you probably shouldn't wear a black suit, white shirt, and red or blue tie - you might get mistaken for a Congressman.

 

[reetpleat]

Well, we can say for sure that it was not common in the thirties and forties, because there are so few examples compared to all teh blue and gray and blue pinstriped etc.

I thing up until 1890 or 1900 or so, it was common and what most men wore.

I have one jacket that is black with a white cable stripe. It is belted back and seems to be a pretty hipster cut. Not so much a bad guy, but a guy who did not wear a suit to work as opposed to maybe a jazz hipster.

Most black suits I have seen were made of what we called graduation cloth. It is black with little white fuzz so it is almmost a charcoal gray, but not quite. They always seem to be in small sizes. We thought they were called graduation cloth because they were common for a first suit for a young man. It would double as a funerala suit perhaps. But once they were in the business world, it was probably more common to have a blue or gray suit.

Of course, many upper class men are depicted in morning attire at the office
in the old movies. Churchill wore black, but with striped pants. I think it is a more upper class thing.

 

[Rittmeister]

I read somewhere that the English have an aversion to black suits. However, they will wear grey that is virtually black. I have a 30's cutaway that is an almost black flannel with black piping.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

An English aversion to black, eh? Never heard of that either.

bk

 

[Rittmeister]

I found this on the following site:

"In any event, the English like dark suits. In fact they like the darkest suits. Americans have no idea how dark the English like their suits because generally we will instinctively choose lighter colors. The English like a charcoal that is almost indistinguishable from black and a navy like that too. Occasionally, they will wear a “bluer” navy if it has very heavy pinstripes or chalk stripes on it. The English will claim they do not like black suits but they seem to wear them in abundance both solids and with white or grey stripes."

http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-english-and-their-city-suit-part-i

Anyone agree, disagree?

 

[Feraud]

I found this on the following site:

"In any event, the English like dark suits. In fact they like the darkest suits. Americans have no idea how dark the English like their suits because generally we will instinctively choose lighter colors. The English like a charcoal that is almost indistinguishable from black and a navy like that too. Occasionally, they will wear a “bluer” navy if it has very heavy pinstripes or chalk stripes on it. The English will claim they do not like black suits but they seem to wear them in abundance both solids and with white or grey stripes."

http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-english-and-their-city-suit-part-i

Anyone agree, disagree?

That sounds silly enough to me.

 

[Orgetorix]

Sator has written an interesting essay on the history of black clothing for AAAC: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/SatorBLACKclothing.htm

 

[benstephens]

I was always under the impression that black suits were very common among the working classes (For instance see Getty image 81615616 ) in England.

The colour did not show the dirt, was suitable for working in and church, and the reason we see fewer of these suits is that most were worn out (very few working class clothes survive today)

Many pictures show men in black suits, and I really do not think that the black suit was deemed as a symbol of fascism, perhaps the wearing of a black shirt.

As Baron says as well, sombre black suits were very popular with the MPs through out the 1930s, as many began to move away from morning suits, but still needed to show no frivolities, yet a smart outwards appearance was needed.

Kindest Regards

Ben