Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[humanshoes]

An uncommon Borsalino. I dismissed it as outrageously overpriced when I first saw it. I had forgotten about it when Stefan @steur pointed it out to me, and I haven't been able to get it out of my mind since.
'Sides, I talked the seller down to $650... View attachment 345172 View attachment 345173 View attachment 345174 View attachment 345175 View attachment 345176 View attachment 345177 View attachment 345178 View attachment 345179 View attachment 345180

That's a first-rate Italian beauty there Max. The ghost of Sergio Leone is surely smiling over this one.

 

[Louis Mountbatten]

Sorry to temporarily break into the Borsalino dating discussion, but I Snagged this sweet pre-war Dobbs today!
And CHEAP!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313616693995

And thanks to the hard work done by The hat professor I can get a decent approximation of its year of birth.
Hope the Borsa business gets settled some day. For me, it seems reading old threads on the subject, many times, leads to confusion.
Probably going to be proved wrong, but one thing I can possibly add to any dating discussion is this:
Super close vertical sweatband to reed material stitching (a stitch every 32nd inch, or so) on a Reeded, or many times un-reeded sweatbands is a dependable indication that a hat is very old (‘30s or earlier) on most any hat brand.
And usually, the wider apart they are the newer it is. Sweatband Stitching seemed to get wider every decade. [Same with the binding stitches of many brands]
Also, other than English and French makes, if the stitching on reeded sweats used zig zag stitching to sew the leather to the sweat usually proves the hat to be of a newer, less desirable vintage.
And yes, to this, there are exceptions. Just about every hat fact has exceptions.
That’s my two cents. You can use it, or throw it out, or throw it on the ever growing pile of ambiguous, or incorrect assumptions.

Not sure what you mean by "zig zag stitching." But if you mean VVVVV as opposed to IIIII then you are not exactly right because many hat makers who used the early stitching machines in the late 1800s until maybe around 1920 used the VVVVVV stitching. Many early Stetsons are VVVVVV sweatband stitching. You are sort of right about some modern hats, though. the VVVVV stitching came back in later, too. Akubra used it alot.

 

[Blare]

Sorry to temporarily break into the Borsalino dating discussion, but I Snagged this sweet pre-war Dobbs today!
And CHEAP!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313616693995

And thanks to the hard work done by The hat professor I can get a decent approximation of its year of birth.
Hope the Borsa business gets settled some day. For me, it seems reading old threads on the subject, many times, leads to confusion.
Probably going to be proved wrong, but one thing I can possibly add to any dating discussion is this:
Super close vertical sweatband to reed material stitching (a stitch every 32nd inch, or so) on a Reeded, or many times un-reeded sweatbands is a dependable indication that a hat is very old (‘30s or earlier) on most any hat brand.
And usually, the wider apart they are the newer it is. Sweatband Stitching seemed to get wider every decade. [Same with the binding stitches of many brands]
Also, other than English and French makes, if the stitching on reeded sweats used zig zag stitching to sew the leather to the sweat usually proves the hat to be of a newer, less desirable vintage.
And yes, to this, there are exceptions. Just about every hat fact has exceptions.
That’s my two cents. You can use it, or throw it out, or throw it on the ever growing pile of ambiguous, or incorrect assumptions.

Wonderful Dobbs Randall

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Stefan’s data points on the label types are a great tool for off hand estimates and a good starting point. I think Daniele is pointing out they may not be absolutes


Though. 36 to 53…. Would fit Daniele’s estimate too.

Joe your quote is only a way to goes on with this subject
I appreciate the great work, intuitive, of Stefan and Steve in trying to give a dating of the Borsalino hats with the observation of the paper labels. It certainly brought the variety of labels printed by Borsalino to the eyes of enthusiasts during its long life, so they are an indication of when a hat may have been produced. As you may have noticed from Steve's photographs, there are variations on the printing of the name, with a modular stamp or in italics, as well as the size that can be written in pen or always with a stamp, the order is not certain because at Borsalino they have always privileged to put the hat product on the market. Some writings in pen, a symbol of haste in finishing the product, are also in much more recent hats than those of the beginning of the last century. Then there are the hats that have been finished and remained in the warehouse, or collected at the shop that have undergone transformations to be adapted to the new client and the type requested by him. I found hats in which the old label had been torn and a new one inserted, or the old one had been covered by the new one because at Borsalino they never threw anything away and they did it while maintaining a semi-artisan working standard in which the orders were made " made to measure "by the manufacturing department.
Moreover, but this seems to be a little taken into consideration, the late thirties, for a political and socio-economic situation and the fifty years of the war, two of which with Italy crossed by warring events and at least five years after, the production of any Italian artifact has been subject to epochal changes.
I had made the resolution not to speak anymore in the dating of the Italian and French hats which are the ones I know most, I fell into sin, I regret, just a little, but I close any comment on dates and anything else concerning Italian hats and French too, so everyone will be happy with what he has or will have in his hands and on his head

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Joe your quote is only a way to goes on with this subject
I appreciate the great work, intuitive, of Stefan and Steve in trying to give a dating of the Borsalino hats with the observation of the paper labels. It certainly brought the variety of labels printed by Borsalino to the eyes of enthusiasts during its long life, so they are an indication of when a hat may have been produced. As you may have noticed from Steve's photographs, there are variations on the printing of the name, with a modular stamp or in italics, as well as the size that can be written in pen or always with a stamp, the order is not certain because at Borsalino they have always privileged to put the hat product on the market. Some writings in pen, a symbol of haste in finishing the product, are also in much more recent hats than those of the beginning of the last century. Then there are the hats that have been finished and remained in the warehouse, or collected at the shop that have undergone transformations to be adapted to the new client and the type requested by him. I found hats in which the old label had been torn and a new one inserted, or the old one had been covered by the new one because at Borsalino they never threw anything away and they did it while maintaining a semi-artisan working standard in which the orders were made " made to measure "by the manufacturing department.
Moreover, but this seems to be a little taken into consideration, the late thirties, for a political and socio-economic situation and the fifty years of the war, two of which with Italy crossed by warring events and at least five years after, the production of any Italian artifact has been subject to epochal changes.
I had made the resolution not to speak anymore in the dating of the Italian and French hats which are the ones I know most, I fell into sin, I regret, just a little, but I close any comment on dates and anything else concerning Italian hats and French too, so everyone will be happy with what he has or will have in his hands and on his head

I’ve found that with Borsalino all I need to do is be able to identify those hats made in the last three decades because everything else is fantastic! I know there are levels of “fantasticness,” but they are all great.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Wonderful Dobbs Randall

Thanks, Joe!

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Not sure what you mean by "zig zag stitching." But if you mean VVVVV as opposed to IIIII then you are not exactly right because many hat makers who used the early stitching machines in the late 1800s until maybe around 1920 used the VVVVVV stitching. Many early Stetsons are VVVVVV sweatband stitching. You are sort of right about some modern hats, though. the VVVVV stitching came back in later, too. Akubra used it alot.

thanks.
Misspoke about 1920s hats and earlier. I’ve only had and held 30s hats and above. My bad.
What I was mostly saying is that the stitching on fedora sweatbands were very close together in early hats and got farther apart as the decades passed. It’s just another way to help me determine a decade.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Pics of what, Doc?
I posted a link of the Dobbs.
haven’t got the hat yet.
But will.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Pics of what, Doc?
I posted a link of the Dobbs.
haven’t got the hat yet.
But will.

Without the auction pictures of the hat; the post and all those associated with it will be worthless when the link no longer works.

 

[Just Daniel]

Wow! That is quite a nice catch! Great job.

Sorry to temporarily break into the Borsalino dating discussion, but I Snagged this sweet pre-war Dobbs today!
And CHEAP!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313616693995

And thanks to the hard work done by The hat professor I can get a decent approximation of its year of birth.
Hope the Borsa business gets settled some day. For me, it seems reading old threads on the subject, many times, leads to confusion.
Probably going to be proved wrong, but one thing I can possibly add to any dating discussion is this:
Super close vertical sweatband to reed material stitching (a stitch every 32nd inch, or so) on a Reeded, or many times un-reeded sweatbands is a dependable indication that a hat is very old (‘30s or earlier) on most any hat brand.
And usually, the wider apart they are the newer it is. Sweatband Stitching seemed to get wider every decade. [Same with the binding stitches of many brands]
Also, other than English and French makes, if the stitching on reeded sweats used zig zag stitching to sew the leather to the sweat usually proves the hat to be of a newer, less desirable vintage.
And yes, to this, there are exceptions. Just about every hat fact has exceptions.
That’s my two cents. You can use it, or throw it out, or throw it on the ever growing pile of ambiguous, or incorrect assumptions.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Without the auction pictures of the hat; the post and all those associated with it will be worthless when the link no longer works.

Went back and added screen shot pics of the Dobbs. I don’t know of any other way to do that as a tech dunce, and didn’t know the link stops working after a while. Makes sense though now that you mention it.
btw, Why do some posted photos on old threads disappear after an uncertain amount years and some don’t?

 

[Blare]

Went back and added screen shot pics of the Dobbs. I don’t know of any other way to do that as a tech dunce, and didn’t know the link stops working after a while. Makes sense though now that you mention it.
btw, Why do some posted photos on old threads disappear after an uncertain amount years and some don’t?

I believe the lounge itself didn’t host the photos originally. So on a lot of older posts… the photos are stored elsewhere like photobucket and just linked to. Then later on the photobucket acts got closed or what not. Now the lounge allows local storage of the images.

Screenshots are good on the eBay posts… as after a few weeks old closed auctions get removed from eBay… so ends up as a dead link down the road.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

That's a first-rate Italian beauty there Max. The ghost of Sergio Leone is surely smiling over this one.
View attachment 350053

Spaghetti Western! I'd be Tuco in the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

I believe the lounge itself didn’t host the photos originally. So on a lot of older posts… the photos are stored elsewhere like photobucket and just linked to. Then later on the photobucket acts got closed or what not. Now the lounge allows local storage of the images.

Screenshots are good on the eBay posts… as after a few weeks old closed auctions get removed from eBay… so ends up as a dead link down the road.

Thanks for answering those questions, Joe. At least something got cleared up here lately.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks for answering those questions, Joe. At least something got cleared up here lately.

My understanding is that photobucket went from a free service to a pay for service company. They held old photos hostage and if you didn’t pay you couldn’t access what was stored on their servers.

 

[Blare]

My understanding is that photobucket went from a free service to a pay for service company. They held old photos hostage and if you didn’t pay you couldn’t access what was stored on their servers.

Makes sense. Google has essentially done that now as well. But at least they only put a cap on the free space and didn’t wipe the photo storage entirely for free accts.

 

[Just Daniel]

This is mostly for Brent. Size 7 1/2

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This is mostly for Brent. Size 7 1/2

View attachment 351872 View attachment 351873

Nice! Love an embroidered LD liner.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This is mostly for Brent. Size 7 1/2

View attachment 351872 View attachment 351873

The size tag sure looks like “7/8” when zoomed in.

 

[Just Daniel]

Yes, exactly. eBay gripe

The size tag sure looks like “7/8” when zoomed in.

View attachment 351881