Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[deadlyhandsome]

Is a Dobbs edge the same as a Guild edge?

 

[Blare]

Is a Dobbs edge the same as a Guild edge?

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I would wager to guess it was another of the names they used for the Cavanagh edge. Cool big little hat

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Just checked all my Borsalinos. Looks like the difference is the words that say, Reg. US Patent Office.
Wonder why they have to put that annotation there if built in Italy?

Yeah, this one may be going to be going back to the seller for a refund.
As they say, “When it’s to good to be true, it usually is.”
I’ll let y’all know how it works out.

The Borsa turned out to be a size 7 American. Guess a few of us here got a little bit more education through this incident.
My nephew got a refund before the hat was shipped.
Back on the hunt.

 

[Blare]

The Borsa turned out to be a size 7 American. Guess a few of us here got a little bit more education through this incident.
My nephew got a refund before the hat was shipped.
Back on the hunt.

That is too bad. Glad it did get sorted ahead of time though.

 

[Louis Mountbatten]

Well, I finally broke down and got an Akubra Campdraft. Just been avoiding it for yours, but I finally did it....

 

[Just Daniel]

Here’s a nice Cavanagh some of you might have seen on OFAS, it’s not quite as fine as the one Alan showed a while back, but for $46 it is certainly very fine.

pics from the seller.

 

[Blare]

Here’s a nice Cavanagh some of you might have seen on OFAS, it’s not quite as fine as the one Alan showed a while back, but for $46 it is certainly very fine.

pics from the seller.

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Good get Daniel.

 

[belfastboy]

Here’s a nice Cavanagh some of you might have seen on OFAS, it’s not quite as fine as the one Alan showed a while back, but for $46 it is certainly very fine.

pics from the seller.

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I have to learn how to do this bash....very cool!

 

[Just Daniel]

Thanks fellas. It seems to be my week for Panamas.

This Lee came up with a best offer option so I dropped one quickly for the heck of it. I’ve got an older gentleman here who can resize it for me. This one just seemed like too much fun to pass up!

I will guess it comes from the same estate as the seller’s other hats; so it is perfectly possible it is a 7 1/8, 50s or so hat.

 

[Just Daniel]

This is the hat that started my Panama slide, what looks like an earlier Brent Barack. It’s not a $10,000 hat, but the seller took my crazy low offer (I had to look twice to confirm) and the hat arrived yesterday. It’s really nice. You can tell far and away it’s a quality hat.

Now I may be all Panama’ed out for a little while.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Here’s a nice Cavanagh some of you might have seen on OFAS, it’s not quite as fine as the one Alan showed a while back, but for $46 it is certainly very fine.

pics from the seller.

View attachment 349857 View attachment 349858 View attachment 349859

Buena, Daniel!

 

[drmaxtejeda]

1930s or 40s

Borsalino Colombo, from @Miamibruno

 

[Daniele Tanto]

1930s or 40s

Sorry Max, it is from the Fifties if not a bit later.
I saw very, very few Borsalino "Colombo" made before the war...

 

[Miamibruno]

Sorry Max, it is from the Fifties if not a bit later.
I saw very, very few Borsalino "Colombo" made before the war...

Daniele,

I understand that Colombo was only made between the 30s and 50s. Was I misinformed? And the serrated edge and the Borsalino on the side is supposed to be pre-war. Or am I once again misinformed?

Adrian

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Adrian,
I believe that the misinformation on the age of the Borsalinos is well rooted in many collectors who, according to what they have in their hands, dictate assumptions about the age of the hat, often confusing the sellers / buyers. Often, to date a Borsalino, the stamp finish of the paper label or other details that are completely irrelevant are cited. The best way to understand when a Borsalino and other Italian hats were made is to carefully observe the components and finishes because the Italian industry remained semi-artisanal until the end of its glorious days. In the construction of a hat there was a clear detachment given by the passage of the Second World War which left a wall in Italian manufacturing. Always keep in mind that in the first days after the war, the hatbox industries worked with recycled materials. The hat in question is beautiful and of an enchanting color as well as the finish, but remember that Borsalino has redone models and linings according to the request of the seller and the market. My dating is the one I wrote, but then everyone is free to date it as they see fit. Basically we do petty archeology on objects from the last century
Buona giornata
Daniele

 

[Just Daniel]

This is a summary of Stefan’s findings. Somewhere on the Borsa Bro thread I think he has all the images. I tried looking without success:

Here you go. This is what the data shows us (this far):

borsalino cell type symmetrical 1900 - 1910
borsalino cell type long 1910 - 1920
borsalino cell type long 1920 - 1936
borsalino sideways 1936 - 1953
borsalino cerrated sheet (one or no straight sides) 1954 - 1960
borsalino cerrated roll (straight sides) 1961 - 1965
borsalino rounded with colour name 1966 - 1975
dated labels (recognizable by the use of the hyphen between the first two and the rest of the digits. 1976 -1982
borsalino elongated no colour name 1983 - 2019

The older the hats, the less sure we are.

Daniele,

I understand that Colombo was only made between the 30s and 50s. Was I misinformed? And the serrated edge and the Borsalino on the side is supposed to be pre-war. Or am I once again misinformed?

Adrian

 

[Just Daniel]

Here we are with a thread with some dates for Borsalino celled labels, just another link/point for reference.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/borsalinos-with-celled-paper-labels.96832/

After looking through the entire Borsalino Brotherhood thread I found that there are two Celled Paper Label types.

Type 1 (Sweatband Date Stamped 05/17/1929)

Type 2 (No Date)

Type 2 is slightly longer and less wide than Type 1. The Type 2 cell size and alignment are also different. The Type 2 dimensions are more similar to later non celled paper labels. Sometime during the 1930s the Celled Paper Labels were dropped. I am not sure how far back the Celled Paper Labels go. If you have a different variation of the Celled Paper Label format please let me know.

The following are the Celled Paper Label Borsalinos I found in the Borsalino Brotherhood. Unfortunately some of the photos are lacking in quality. We can update this thread as more become available.

Echter Borsalino "Fico" "Lama", French Size Point 6, date stamped May 18, 1929, German Market.

(Type 1, Date Stamped 05/18/29)

Echter Borsalino "Bismuto" "Sanboca", French Size Point 6 1/2, date stamped May 17, 1929, German Market.

(Type 1, Date Stamped 05/17/29)

Daniele,

I understand that Colombo was only made between the 30s and 50s. Was I misinformed? And the serrated edge and the Borsalino on the side is supposed to be pre-war. Or am I once again misinformed?

Adrian

 

[Blare]

This is a summary of Stefan’s findings. Somewhere on the Borsa Bro thread I think he has all the images. I tried looking without success:

Stefan’s data points on the label types are a great tool for off hand estimates and a good starting point. I think Daniele is pointing out they may not be absolutes


Though. 36 to 53…. Would fit Daniele’s estimate too.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Sorry to temporarily break into the Borsalino dating discussion, but I Snagged this sweet pre-war Dobbs today!
And CHEAP!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313616693995

And thanks to the hard work done by The hat professor I can get a decent approximation of its year of birth.
Hope the Borsa business gets settled some day. For me, it seems reading old threads on the subject, many times, leads to confusion.
Probably going to be proved wrong, but one thing I can possibly add to any dating discussion is this:
Super close vertical sweatband to reed material stitching (a stitch every 32nd inch, or so) on a Reeded, or many times un-reeded sweatbands is a dependable indication that a hat is very old (‘30s or earlier) on most any hat brand.
And usually, the wider apart they are the newer it is. Sweatband Stitching seemed to get wider every decade. [Same with the binding stitches of many brands]
Also, other than English and French makes, if the stitching on reeded sweats used zig zag stitching to sew the leather to the sweat usually proves the hat to be of a newer, less desirable vintage.
And yes, to this, there are exceptions. Just about every hat fact has exceptions.
That’s my two cents. You can use it, or throw it out, or throw it on the ever growing pile of ambiguous, or incorrect assumptions.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Sorry to temporarily break into the Borsalino dating discussion, but I Snagged this sweet pre-war Dobbs today!
And CHEAP!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313616693995

And thanks to the hard work done by The hat professor I can get a decent approximation of its year of birth.
Hope the Borsa business gets settled some day. For me, it seems reading old threads on the subject, many times, leads to confusion.
Probably going to be proved wrong, but one thing I can possibly add to any dating discussion is this:
Super close vertical sweatband to reed material stitching (a stitch every 32nd inch, or so) on a Reeded, or many times un-reeded sweatbands is a dependable indication that a hat is very old (‘30s or earlier) on most any hat brand.
And usually, the wider apart they are the newer it is. Sweatband Stitching seemed to get wider every decade. [Same with the binding stitches of many brands]
Also, other than English and French makes, if the stitching on reeded sweats used zig zag stitching to sew the leather to the sweat usually proves the hat to be of a newer, less desirable vintage.
And yes, to this, there are exceptions. Just about every hat fact has exceptions.
That’s my two cents. You can use it, or throw it out, or throw it on the ever growing pile of ambiguous, or incorrect assumptions.

Pics?