EBay arghh!! ##$&&

[Guppy]

Custom duties and import taxes are impossible to bypass, no matter what forms you filled and what the parcel was marked as. It's just not happening & I'm 100% sure the seller got hit with the import duties & is refusing to accept the package. You'll get the jacket back for sure.

I know it varies by country, but in the US we don't seem to get hit until we're receiving something valued over $800. I've returned a tiny number of things internationally, but have not seen anything I marked properly as a "return" get hit for any fees before.

 

[AerGuitar]

Sorry that you’re dealing with this! So frustrating. I’ve not had any international mishaps, but have lost several hundred dollars to what I’m going to assume were some sort of scam in the past. I sold a new Triumph motorbike fuel tank to a fellow on the other side of the country, I tracked it all the way to his doorstep. 31 days later(1 day after USPS insurance coverage lapsed), he opened a case against me because he never received the package. Evilbay immediately withdrew his purchase price from my PP account. I fought for 2 weeks to prove my case that it was delivered, to no avail. I was out $550. Another was a “no returns” sale of a working stereo head unit from a corvette I used to own. Buyer received it, verified that it functioned, but that wasn’t the problem he was having with his system. It was his amplifier. Anywho, he opens a case, Evilbay takes the money, he is supposed to return the stereo. I never received the unit back, and Evilbay’s ultimate response is “Sorry”. I was out $270. This was back in 2018 and I left eBay all together( I was a top rated seller with over $23k in sales that year), because I was disgusted how they treated sellers. Since then, they seemed to have changed some policies and I have returned. So far, over the last couple years, I’ve had pretty solid experiences.

 

[Monitor]

I know it varies by country, but in the US we don't seem to get hit until we're receiving something valued over $800. I've returned a tiny number of things internationally, but have not seen anything I marked properly as a "return" get hit for any fees before.

Compared to the EU, United States are extremely lenient when it comes to these things. You don't realize how easy you got it over there and I hope it stays that way.
Granted, I don't know what's been happening with the UK since the Brexit in terms of import taxes but since they were part of the EU up until just a while ago, I doubt it they'd bother to change the policy which pretty much insures loads of free money but either way, the amount of paperwork you & the seller would have to fill out in order for the customs to recognize a parcel as a return and the amount of money you'd have to pay is literally not worth it. It's do-able, of course, just crazy complicated.

Several UK based companies even have a penalty fee policy for int'l customers who refuse to accept the parcel, as then they'd have to pay duties & import taxes just to get their own undelivered package back. Actually had that happen to me! The store reasoned it's literally cheaper for them to cover buyers import duties than accept the return.

Some countries might be slightly more forgiving than the others but it's insanity in any case.

Well, anyway, I'm not really trying to make a point other than that I can see why they're hiding from the mailman, not wanting to have anything to do with this blighted jacket. Shame you have to go through all that. . .

 

[Marc mndt]

I know it varies by country, but in the US we don't seem to get hit until we're receiving something valued over $800. I've returned a tiny number of things internationally, but have not seen anything I marked properly as a "return" get hit for any fees before.

In the UK gifts over £39 are liable to Import VAT. Customs Duty also becomes payable if the value of the goods is over £135.

In my experience DHL is the worst with regards to how VAT and customs fees are collected. Their handling fees are ridiculously high, it looks to be a business model for them. Like @Monitor says the costs are impossible to circumvent no matter whether it's a return or not. Simply marking it as a return is not enough, the waybill of the original shipment needs to be included. If for some reason DHL still decides to charge customs fees it's impossible to lodge an objection.

Knowing DHL, they do not put packages on delivery trucks with unpaid import duty or taxes owed, attempt to deliver, and then realize that they needed to collect taxes.

Last summer they delivered a package to me that was a return shipment. One month later I received an email from them claiming that I needed to pay VAT and fees. I tried contacting them by phone which proved to be impossible. I decided not to pay, DHL handed the case over to a debt collector. I contacted the debt collector trying to explain the situation but of course they told me I should contact DHL. Eventually I was able to get an answer from DHL, they told me they couldn't help me, the one who shipped the package should open a case (not the receiver).

 

[Guppy]

In the UK gifts over £39 are liable to Import VAT. Customs Duty also becomes payable if the value of the goods is over £135.

In my experience DHL is the worst with regards to how VAT and customs fees are collected. Their handling fees are ridiculously high, it looks to be a business model for them. Like @Monitor says the costs are impossible to circumvent no matter whether it's a return or not. Simply marking it as a return is not enough, the waybill of the original shipment needs to be included. If for some reason DHL still decides to charge customs fees it's impossible to lodge an objection.

I've heard that DHL is inflexible on taxes and duties, and I believe it. It seems there should be some sort of appeal process for it, and if it is somehow a rule that import duties apply both ways on a returned item, that's ridiculous and unconscionable.

When I contacted them pre-sale to ask how to indicate that the package was a return, they never told me that an original waybill from the shipping to me needed to be attached. If that's a requirement, they should have told me that.

 

[Jasonissm]

Sorry that you’re dealing with this! So frustrating. I’ve not had any international mishaps, but have lost several hundred dollars to what I’m going to assume were some sort of scam in the past. I sold a new Triumph motorbike fuel tank to a fellow on the other side of the country, I tracked it all the way to his doorstep. 31 days later(1 day after USPS insurance coverage lapsed), he opened a case against me because he never received the package. Evilbay immediately withdrew his purchase price from my PP account. I fought for 2 weeks to prove my case that it was delivered, to no avail. I was out $550. Another was a “no returns” sale of a working stereo head unit from a corvette I used to own. Buyer received it, verified that it functioned, but that wasn’t the problem he was having with his system. It was his amplifier. Anywho, he opens a case, Evilbay takes the money, he is supposed to return the stereo. I never received the unit back, and Evilbay’s ultimate response is “Sorry”. I was out $270. This was back in 2018 and I left eBay all together( I was a top rated seller with over $23k in sales that year), because I was disgusted how they treated sellers. Since then, they seemed to have changed some policies and I have returned. So far, over the last couple years, I’ve had pretty solid experiences.

eBay have dropped Paypal as their payment processing platform which has alleviated some of the issues. Paypal is notorious for siding with the buyer 90% of the time, had one faff about and demand a refund, which he got, but never returned the item so it was never processed thankfully.

 

[Leigh H]

I had a new "adventure" recently with a ebay purchase.

Seller in the UK offered an Aero Highwayman in my size, which looked really nicely broken in. The bidding went low and I ended up with the high bid.

Jacket arrived, and to my disappointment there was a deep gash in the right sleeve, between the elbow and shoulder. It looked like someone had cut the leather with a knife, and seemed like the sort of damage that might result from someone cutting open the box it shipped in with a box cutter and not paying any attention to how deeply the blade entered into the box.

In this case, though, the seller had shipped it in a poly-bag, and it was tightly compressed in the bag, so I took great care when cutting the bag open to not cut into the leather at all. The packaging was itself in pristine condition upon arrival at my door, and had no signs of rough handling, no scrapes or anything. So I was confident that this was a pre-existing damage that the seller did not disclose in their listing.

I filed a return request, on the basis of the item being not as described, documented the damage. The seller did not allow returns on the sale, but ebay's policy is always that if the item is not as described, a return is allowed under Buyer Protection.

The seller accepted the return request. Due to their being overseas, however, they could not generate a return mailing label through ebay. I've run into this before and it is annoying, but not unexpected. I didn't want to pay for the return shipping, as per ebay policy the buyer is faultless in an "item not as described" case. Seller agreed they would reimburse me up to their cost to ship from UK to US, but rates are cheaper for them and I was stuck for some portion of the return shipping cost, which did not make me happy. Seller did reimburse about 30 GBP on a 47 GBP return.

Seller advised me that they were moving their residence in the timeframe of my return window. Ebay told me that I had to have the return to them by Dec 22 (today), seller asked me to delay shipping to them until after their move on Dec 15, and then ship to their new address. Their new address was not on flie as their official address of record with ebay, so this set off a red flag with me.

I contacted ebay and got it in writing from them that they would accept the return to the seller's new address; the messaging history within ebay's mail system was sufficient proof that the seller had requested their new address be used. eBay also advised me that the return needed to be *received* by Dec 22, not shipped by that date. So if I used slower, cheaper delivery methods, I might run out of time. I still don't believe that is correct, ebay policies have always allowed for variable shipping times outside of the shipper's control, but that's what I was told.

Seller had also instructed me to be sure to note that the shipment was a return, and I marked the package accordingly, and filled out the import documentation correctly that the shipment contained returned damaged goods. I also contacted DHL customer service and confirmed with them that the package was appropriately documented as a return, and that duties should not be owed.

As it turned out, the cheapest return shipping option was through DHL, via a shipping courier broker called TransGlobal Express. Their rate was actually cheaper than USPS Priority Mail International, and was faster. I put in all the "paperwork" on the TransGlobal Express website, and got import papers and a shipping label for DHL on Dec 10 or 11, with a pickup date from my door scheduled on Dec 13.

On Dec 13, I spent the day sitting on my porch, working from home, waiting for the courier to pick up the package. It was a warmish day, about 50F, and my porch was not exactly comfortable, but bearable. I bundled up and waited until about noon, at which point I was starting to get impatient. I contacted DHL to ask them about the pickup, and they did not have a pickup scheduled for me, even though the wording on their website was clear that I should expect a pickup. But they were able to accommodate scheduling a pickup late in the day on the 13th, and my driver showed up about 4pm. Their driver remembered dropping off a package at my house a few days prior, and asked if there was a problem with it, and I explained to him in brief what had happened, but that I did find the package had been delivered in undamaged condition, and that the damage to the item must have been pre-existing, and not DHL's fault. I like the Driver, just because he took the time to ask, and because he remembered my house from previously.

DHL picked up the package on Dec 13, and it was out for delivery in Ipswitch, UK, on Dec 15. DHL is incredible when it comes to moving things from Point A to Point B quickly. They can be inflexible on their policies, and tend to be expensive, but they are darn good at what they do. Delivery was attempted, but could not be completed. It seemed likely that the seller was busy with their moving and wasn't available to sign for the package. The status said that the courier would hold the package until the receiver contacted them to arrange delivery.

I waited about two days, then messaged the seller to ask about this. They replied as expected that they had been busy with the move, and as well they had also gotten new SIM cards issued for their phones and had been unavailable to make phone calls, but were now once again able to make phone calls and would contact the courier. All seemed well. But very strange, though, that someone would move house AND switch cell phones on the same day. Considering the obvious utility of a working phone during a move, it would seem like a really bad time to do something like that. I scratched my head, but that's what they told me.

Two more days, and still nothing. Then, yesterday, I check the tracking info and now it says that the package is being held by the courier pending payment of some balance owed.

Oddly, this new information only appeared on the tracking history yesterday, Dec 21, but the event was backdated to 1 minute after the package had been out for delivery, with an unsuccessful delivery attempt.

I wrote to the seller to ask about this late last night, and they replied this morning. Seller told me that they called DHL, DHL told them that there was no delivery attempt on the 15th, that the money owed is for import duty, and that they were not obligated to pay it and would not pay it, and if I did not pay it then DHL would return the package to me, and I would be out the money I paid to ship it, and not get the refund through ebay for the damaged jacket.

Knowing DHL, they do not put packages on delivery trucks with unpaid import duty or taxes owed, attempt to deliver, and then realize that they needed to collect taxes. And as this was clearly marked as a return, I didn't believe that it was a duty or tax, but perhaps that DHL charges to hold a package in the event that they attempt to deliver, are unable to complete the delivery, and have to hold the package for some time. By this point, it had now been almost a week.

I wrote to DHL UK customer service to inquire as to the exact nature of the balanced owed, explained that there should be no duty or tax owed on this as it was a return, and asked who was responsible to pay, when the deadline to pay was, whether there was any way to appeal the charge, and what would happen in the event that the payment was not made by the deadline. I am waiting now on their response to those questions.

Could eBay’s global shipping program not take care of the return?

This is such a shit situation you’ve been put in. Did the seller make out they’d never seen the gash?. The Seller seems really sketchy to me. The address change and making you wait seems like a tactic, making you miss your return window.

You’ve done so well to cover your ass in this process.

 

[Guppy]

Could eBay’s global shipping program not take care of the return?

This is such a shit situation you’ve been put in. Did the seller make out they’d never seen the gash?. The Seller seems really sketchy to me. The address change and making you wait seems like a tactic, making you miss your return window.

You’ve done so well to cover your ass in this process.

Thanks...

One point of clarification, this item was not shipped to me via Ebay's Global Shipping Program. Seller used TransGlobal Express, and final delivery was done by DHL. I used the same service for the return.

To follow up, I contacted eBay customer service again yesterday, because the Return was still open, and did not appear to have been updated, at least not visible to me, since I spoke with their CSR the day before.

This time, they confirmed that I was covered by Buyer Protection and would receive a refund, and then they immediately closed the Return and refunded me the full money I paid for the jacket + shipping to me.

I'm still out the ~$20 on the return shipping that the seller failed to reimburse me. But all things considered, it could have been worse.

As for the seller, they seemed OK. They did not dispute the damage, and accepted the return, and their emails were cordial the whole way, so I don't think they were intending to defraud me.

My best guess, they failed to notice the damage, OR possibly when it was shipped to me, it was opened by customs, who were careless when opening the original poly-bag, and re-packaged it after inspection, so that when it arrived the packaging appeared to have been intact with no obvious damage to the new poly-bag that would have indicated damage occurring in transit. Who really knows. Looking at the pictures again, I would say that the cut does not appear to be recent. The inside of the cut, where the leather is freshly exposed, looks like it's had some time to oxidize a bit. I could be wrong about that, but if I had to put money on it (and I kind of did) I would bet that it happened some time well before it was shipped to me.

It's also entirely possible that the seller did notice the damage, and hoped that I wouldn't, at least not until it was too late to return. In which case, shame on them.

Here's pics of the gash, it's pretty hard to miss, I noticed it immediately.











Their change of address for the return did worry me, but I guess people do move sometimes, and it was just bad timing. The bit about having no phone access due to changing cell carriers during their move was REALLY fishy. But when they replied to my messages on ebay, it was always helpful, courteous, and professional. And they did send me reimbursement for the return shipping label. If they were trying to rip me off, they could have done a lot worse. So I don't think they were. I really can't complain about the seller.

Right up until the end, when they said that they would not pay the import duties. Which, I mean, I can fully understand not being willing to pay import duties to receive a damaged return, to the tune of 118GBP on top of the loss of sale and shipping costs. Particularly if they just bought a new house and have all the expenses associated with that, and not a lot of liquid cash on hand to cover unexpected things like this. Still, as the injured party, those factors are not my problem, and I'm glad that ebay helped me get my money back.