EBay arghh!! ##$&&

[Guppy]

My sale was also to a U.S. address and ended up in Germany where the account was registered. The U.S. address was to a business address near an airport which I believe (maybe erroneously) that third party shippers are actual shipping business hired by out of country buyers. I think making sure the shipping address is an actual residential house or apt. lessens the chance of having an account in a different country. Of course a third party shipper could operate out of a residential house or apt.

My point is that, the guy could have dual citizenship, or could have immigrated to the address I shipped to, but for all eBay cares, they are international because they originally registered their account in another country. So, even if it was really a true domestic sale, they would still charge the international fee. And there's nothing I can do as a seller to prevent it.

I don't know why ebay would even care what happened to the item after delivery, if the guy wanted to ship it to a trusted party who was willing to be a proxy for him and ship it overseas, at that point its post-sale, and any postage, duties, taxes, etc are on the new owner. I and eBay should no longer have any interest. So what justifies an additional international fee in that situation?

 

[Monitor]

So what justifies an additional international fee in that situation?

Nothing! Nothing ever justified an international fee, same as it didn't exist before. The fee is paying for nothing. eBay is scum.

 

[Marc mndt]

So, even if it was really a true domestic sale, they would still charge the international fee.

What's the international fee about anyways? Sounds like bs to me.

 

[Guppy]

What's the international fee about anyways? Sounds like bs to me.

I don't know what justification it has. But I presume that it must cost ebay more to facilitate these transactions. So they pass the cost on.

 

[NYDRH]

Did anyone get this message from eBay that they want our social security numbers(Americans)? It's this for real? I think I'm done with them, if i had known this i wouldn't have listed my last item. Now i have to figure out what to do to get my money.

 

[Guppy]

Did anyone get this message from eBay that they want our social security numbers(Americans)? It's this for real? I think I'm done with them, if i had known this i wouldn't have listed my last item. Now i have to figure out what to do to get my money.

Tax regulations compliance. If you earn over $600 in revenue (I believe) eBay is legally obligated to send IRS a 1099.

That's on top of the sales tax you're already getting charged as a buyer for every transaction.

I am probably going to have to found a religion in order to get tax exempt status.

 

[NYDRH]

Tax regulations compliance. If you earn over $600 in revenue (I believe) eBay is legally obligated to send IRS a 1099.

That's on top of the sales tax you're already getting charged as a buyer for every transaction.

I am probably going to have to found a religion in order to get tax exempt status.

Yeah you are correct, $600 is the threshold. I just have no trust in sharing my ss# with eBay.

 

[Leigh H]

what are the best alternatives? i know a lot of clothes sellers have moved to etsy.

 

[Monitor]

what are the best alternatives? i know a lot of clothes sellers have moved to etsy.

Nothing ever sells on Etsy. It's trash, search results don't make no sense and are always buried under unrelated only 'cause it's sponsored. Grailed isn't much good for vintage and a lots of penniless kids wasting time... eBay is still the best for this particular niche, unfortunately.

 

[Bfd70]

This has probably been covered but how is it they charge tax on pre owned items? The tax is already paid on that. $600 earnings! When i buy a jacket for $1,200 and don’t like it it’s a $600 loss! I should get antax credit!

 

[roadking04]

This has probably been covered but how is it they charge tax on pre owned items? The tax is already paid on that. $600 earnings! When i buy a jacket for $1,200 and don’t like it it’s a $600 loss! I should get antax credit!

Just like gambling winnings. I could throw $1000 into a slot machine and lose all of it one day. Then go back the very next day and throw a $20 bill in it and hit for $600. Now I have to pay taxes on my winnings even though I am a big fat loser. lol.

 

[Guppy]

what are the best alternatives? i know a lot of clothes sellers have moved to etsy.

There's a bunch, but I think they are all required to follow the same law. Etsy, Mercari, Grailed, Poshmark...

 

[Bebop]

The new tax law is not about the site that allows you to sell. The tax has to do with online third party transaction networks. So if you receive $600 or more for goods through PayPal or any online escrow, they are required to send a 1099. It doesn't matter if you use eBay, Etsy, Poshmark.

 

[Leigh H]

The new tax law is not about the site that allows you to sell. The tax has to do with online third party transaction networks. So if you receive $600 or more for goods through PayPal or any online escrow, they are required to send a 1099. It doesn't matter if you use eBay, Etsy, Poshmark.

Sounds like this is really going to deter Americans from selling items.

 

[Will Zach]

Just like gambling winnings. I could throw $1000 into a slot machine and lose all of it one day. Then go back the very next day and throw a $20 bill in it and hit for $600. Now I have to pay taxes on my winnings even though I am a big fat loser. lol.

Gambling losses are tax deductible and can be used to offset gambling winnings for tax purposes. Not sure if slot machines give you receipts, though, lol. I have a hard time believing that IRS treats eBay sales as income. You should be able to show profit or loss for tax purposes. PITA for sure, though, as if US taxes were not complicated enough already.

 

[Edward]

Nothing ever sells on Etsy. It's trash, search results don't make no sense and are always buried under unrelated only 'cause it's sponsored. Grailed isn't much good for vintage and a lots of penniless kids wasting time... eBay is still the best for this particular niche, unfortunately.

Etsy's search tool is rubbish, which could be a big part of why I've only ever bought new items on there. It's a goldmine of great stuff, especially when gift-shopping, but the search tool is so poor (and its indexing so limited) that I don't know why anyone who didn't have an alternative, off-platform marketing plan to direct traffic to their sales would bother. It seems such an obvious hole in the design, I don't know why they don't get on it. Unless of course they don't want to be a platform for second hand clothes and such, and see the craft businesses as their way forward, in the same manner as eBay has spent the last decade seeking to transform itself into something more akin to Aliexpress rather than the "world's biggest fleamarket".

This has probably been covered but how is it they charge tax on pre owned items? The tax is already paid on that. $600 earnings! When i buy a jacket for $1,200 and don’t like it it’s a $600 loss! I should get antax credit!

I expect it's the same old, same old: this is aimed at catching out those who make a quiet living on eBay without declaring all or any of it to the tax man, and has been designed as a blunt too with little thought given to those of us who don't fall into the target group.

I don't know what the practicalities of this are, as it does seem to be a US thing. It may well hurt eBay if it pushes people away from the platform in the US, though obviously if it applies to all online sales platforms, eBay don't need to fear a rival taking custom from them.

As ever, the devil is in the details, of course: if it is integrated into the system in a way which allows payment of tax to be done easily, then, well, it's a pain (though TBH I'd find it less so that when eBay first introduced very grabby final sale fees), but hopefully a convenient one. I suppose we'll see what impact it has in time. I do hope this doesn't hit us in the UK as well. eBay's various reforms over the years have made a lot of things really just not worth selling on the platform here in the UK. At one point when I last check it, they wouldn't let you charge postage for a DVD, and given how little those sell for now, it would mean practically paying the buyer to take them once you posted it. I've not sold anything on eBay for years because of their grabby fees, but alas I've just gotten to a point now where I have a lot of stuff to shift and there isn't really an obvious alternative for most of it.

 

[Bebop]

This has probably been covered but how is it they charge tax on pre owned items? The tax is already paid on that. $600 earnings! When i buy a jacket for $1,200 and don’t like it it’s a $600 loss! I should get antax credit!

I agree. I wonder if we should keep receipts for all items we purchase so we can prove that we lost money on the deal. The tax is charged as "income" from sales. It's a "gig workers tax". Not a tax on the items.

I'm not positive but... If someone sends you money through PayPal using "friends and family" as a choice, that does not count towards your income. But with FF you don't have any protection or recourse available through PP against getting scammed.

The IRS has complained that gig workers are not paying their taxes and during a pandemic, when there are many people still struggling to make ends meet by selling their jackets, shirts, hats, whatever....... the IRS decides to rear it's ugly head and strong-arm the little guy. Horrible.

 

[Bfd70]

One of the things I like about TFL is that it’s such a community that I have zero trepidation about sending F&F to regulars. What really makes me scratch my head is when someone with 5 posts puts something up in the classifieds and states they want payment that way. I’d rather send my money to that Saudi prince that keeps sending me emails.

 

[Guppy]

I had a new "adventure" recently with a ebay purchase.

Seller in the UK offered an Aero Highwayman in my size, which looked really nicely broken in. The bidding went low and I ended up with the high bid.

Jacket arrived, and to my disappointment there was a deep gash in the right sleeve, between the elbow and shoulder. It looked like someone had cut the leather with a knife, and seemed like the sort of damage that might result from someone cutting open the box it shipped in with a box cutter and not paying any attention to how deeply the blade entered into the box.

In this case, though, the seller had shipped it in a poly-bag, and it was tightly compressed in the bag, so I took great care when cutting the bag open to not cut into the leather at all. The packaging was itself in pristine condition upon arrival at my door, and had no signs of rough handling, no scrapes or anything. So I was confident that this was a pre-existing damage that the seller did not disclose in their listing.

I filed a return request, on the basis of the item being not as described, documented the damage. The seller did not allow returns on the sale, but ebay's policy is always that if the item is not as described, a return is allowed under Buyer Protection.

The seller accepted the return request. Due to their being overseas, however, they could not generate a return mailing label through ebay. I've run into this before and it is annoying, but not unexpected. I didn't want to pay for the return shipping, as per ebay policy the buyer is faultless in an "item not as described" case. Seller agreed they would reimburse me up to their cost to ship from UK to US, but rates are cheaper for them and I was stuck for some portion of the return shipping cost, which did not make me happy. Seller did reimburse about 30 GBP on a 47 GBP return.

Seller advised me that they were moving their residence in the timeframe of my return window. Ebay told me that I had to have the return to them by Dec 22 (today), seller asked me to delay shipping to them until after their move on Dec 15, and then ship to their new address. Their new address was not on flie as their official address of record with ebay, so this set off a red flag with me.

I contacted ebay and got it in writing from them that they would accept the return to the seller's new address; the messaging history within ebay's mail system was sufficient proof that the seller had requested their new address be used. eBay also advised me that the return needed to be *received* by Dec 22, not shipped by that date. So if I used slower, cheaper delivery methods, I might run out of time. I still don't believe that is correct, ebay policies have always allowed for variable shipping times outside of the shipper's control, but that's what I was told.

Seller had also instructed me to be sure to note that the shipment was a return, and I marked the package accordingly, and filled out the import documentation correctly that the shipment contained returned damaged goods. I also contacted DHL customer service and confirmed with them that the package was appropriately documented as a return, and that duties should not be owed.

As it turned out, the cheapest return shipping option was through DHL, via a shipping courier broker called TransGlobal Express. Their rate was actually cheaper than USPS Priority Mail International, and was faster. I put in all the "paperwork" on the TransGlobal Express website, and got import papers and a shipping label for DHL on Dec 10 or 11, with a pickup date from my door scheduled on Dec 13.

On Dec 13, I spent the day sitting on my porch, working from home, waiting for the courier to pick up the package. It was a warmish day, about 50F, and my porch was not exactly comfortable, but bearable. I bundled up and waited until about noon, at which point I was starting to get impatient. I contacted DHL to ask them about the pickup, and they did not have a pickup scheduled for me, even though the wording on their website was clear that I should expect a pickup. But they were able to accommodate scheduling a pickup late in the day on the 13th, and my driver showed up about 4pm. Their driver remembered dropping off a package at my house a few days prior, and asked if there was a problem with it, and I explained to him in brief what had happened, but that I did find the package had been delivered in undamaged condition, and that the damage to the item must have been pre-existing, and not DHL's fault. I like the Driver, just because he took the time to ask, and because he remembered my house from previously.

DHL picked up the package on Dec 13, and it was out for delivery in Ipswitch, UK, on Dec 15. DHL is incredible when it comes to moving things from Point A to Point B quickly. They can be inflexible on their policies, and tend to be expensive, but they are darn good at what they do. Delivery was attempted, but could not be completed. It seemed likely that the seller was busy with their moving and wasn't available to sign for the package. The status said that the courier would hold the package until the receiver contacted them to arrange delivery.

I waited about two days, then messaged the seller to ask about this. They replied as expected that they had been busy with the move, and as well they had also gotten new SIM cards issued for their phones and had been unavailable to make phone calls, but were now once again able to make phone calls and would contact the courier. All seemed well. But very strange, though, that someone would move house AND switch cell phones on the same day. Considering the obvious utility of a working phone during a move, it would seem like a really bad time to do something like that. I scratched my head, but that's what they told me.

Two more days, and still nothing. Then, yesterday, I check the tracking info and now it says that the package is being held by the courier pending payment of some balance owed.

Oddly, this new information only appeared on the tracking history yesterday, Dec 21, but the event was backdated to 1 minute after the package had been out for delivery, with an unsuccessful delivery attempt.

I wrote to the seller to ask about this late last night, and they replied this morning. Seller told me that they called DHL, DHL told them that there was no delivery attempt on the 15th, that the money owed is for import duty, and that they were not obligated to pay it and would not pay it, and if I did not pay it then DHL would return the package to me, and I would be out the money I paid to ship it, and not get the refund through ebay for the damaged jacket.

Knowing DHL, they do not put packages on delivery trucks with unpaid import duty or taxes owed, attempt to deliver, and then realize that they needed to collect taxes. And as this was clearly marked as a return, I didn't believe that it was a duty or tax, but perhaps that DHL charges to hold a package in the event that they attempt to deliver, are unable to complete the delivery, and have to hold the package for some time. By this point, it had now been almost a week.

I wrote to DHL UK customer service to inquire as to the exact nature of the balanced owed, explained that there should be no duty or tax owed on this as it was a return, and asked who was responsible to pay, when the deadline to pay was, whether there was any way to appeal the charge, and what would happen in the event that the payment was not made by the deadline. I am waiting now on their response to those questions.

As today is Dec 22, and ebay had told me that delivery had to occur by that date in order for my return to be accepted for refund, I immediately followed up with eBay customer service, and laid out the full history of the transaction with their representative over a chat session. I much prefer to use chat now, because A) there's a written transcript of exactly what was said, B) it's damn near impossible to complete a phone call and get a good enough signal to hear the person on the other end clearly, and C) the people on the other end invariably have an accent which makes understanding them very difficult, and they always seem to speak in an overly long, overly complicated manner where each sentence takes a full minute to say, and there's always an important word that gets completely garbled when they say it, and you can ask them to repeat themselves and they will repeat themselves in the exact same garbled way 3 or 4 times, as though the strategy is to say something you can't understand and just hope you'll agree to it, and then they'll reveal that you agreed to something you shouldn't have.

At any rate, in this case I laid everything out with the CSR from ebay in chat, and after hearing all the details related above, they agreed that they would be able to help me to escalate the return case and find in my favor, on the basis of the "delivery attempted" entry in the return shipping details. They tell me that I will be refunded in full (although it looks like I'm out the additional money that I paid on the return shipping that the seller didn't reimburse me for). I'm supposed to receive credit back to my account in 2-5 business days.

So far, I have yet to see the Return case status update to reflect this, but I do have the chat transcript with the CSR.

So hopefully in a few days I'll get my money back, and then the seller will be stuck with having to pay the import duties, challenge them, or decline to pay them and then maybe the jacket will return to me, not that I ever want to see the bloody thing again.

 

[Monitor]

Custom duties and import taxes are impossible to bypass, no matter what forms you filled and what the parcel was marked as. It's just not happening & I'm 100% sure the seller got hit with the import duties & is refusing to accept the package. You'll get the jacket back for sure.