EBay arghh!! ##$&&

[ProteinNerd]

I looked at my most recent Paypal transactions and I didn’t see anything that said it was a confirmed address. It was an issue with the zip code.

It does make me wonder since I couldn’t find a clear answer: if a buyer uses an international shipping service, does the obligation as the seller stop after it’s been received to that address? If something goes wrong and the buyer wants to return, would the seller have to pay for shipping from the buyer’s actual address or only from where it wa shipped?

I would expect that if the seller asked you to ship to address XXX and you have proof it was delivered to that address you are in the clear regardless of what happens next.....then again this is eBay we are talking about.

 

[Thuggee]

I would expect that if the seller asked you to ship to address XXX and you have proof it was delivered to that address you are in the clear regardless of what happens next.....then again this is eBay we are talking about.

From a recent eBay PayPal transaction when I sold something to someone

“This item is eligible for Seller Protection.
To remain eligible, ship the item to the address confirmed below. We recommend using a shipping method you can track.
Please note, items delivered in person or to a different address are not covered by Seller Protection.
Learn more about Seller Protection “

The above was included with the buyers payment which I take to assume his address has been verified/confirmed with PayPal , now if this buyer asked me to ship it to a address not verified with PayPal, I wouldn’t, if the address doesn’t match eBay vs PayPal I won’t ship the item as it leaves me open to a chargeback, logic says a hacked account or stolen credit card being used the buyer of such card or account would want the good shipped to a bogus address.


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[Guppy]

Score one for the good guys.

I sold a jacket recently on eBay. I accepted a pretty good "best offer" and the buyer got a good discount from my asking price. I left positive feedback once the payment was received, and shipped the jacket out next day. It arrived in 2 days, good service from USPS Priority Mail.

Buyer contacted me the day they received it, complaining that the jacket had "damage" to the leather and demanded a refund. I looked at the photo of the claimed damage, and saw some unsightly blotchy spots which were in no conceivable way overlooked when I listed the jacket. I compared to my own photos of the item, and there was absolutely no trace of this defect.

I felt that the buyer was trying to pass off a different item to me in a fraudulent return scam, so I contacted eBay customer service, and asked what to do. They are much easier to get a hold of than they used to be, and the wait time to talk to a live person is barely anything.

I explained what was going on and asked what I could do. Customer service advised that I should accept the return, and when it comes back, if the item is damaged or not the same item as I had sent, that I would have two days upon delivery of the return to contact eBay to report the buyer and create a counter claim, and that their seller protection program would protect me against the loss.

I don't accept returns on purchases generally, but in the event of an "item not as described" you kindof have to, so I reluctantly accepted the return. Buyer shipped the jacket back to me, and the spots of damage that they were complaining about were there, plain as day and very obvious, not something I could possibly have overlooked. I don't know what caused it, but it looked to me like maybe a natural scar or blemish, not something that happened to the leather after it was tanned.

I contacted eBay customer support and reported what happened, and they told me not to refund the money, and that they would send me an affidavit form to fill out, which I needed to sign, and upload along with supporting documentation, photos, etc. Once I did so, they would review the information as soon as possible and then I would keep the money that the buyer had paid me. I asked what would happen with the buyer, and they told me that the buyer would also be refunded their money, but that this would be covered by eBay's as they use insurance to cover losses in events like this. I asked if there would be any investigation into the buyer, and they said that this was not necessary to resolve the case, and that this outcome was win-win for both parties, and that I could block the buyer from buying from me in the future but that they would be allowed to continue to use eBay.

I thought about it, and decided that in reality, while this isn't perfect, it's probably the ideal and most fair solution. eBay could spend far and away more money trying to collect documentation and adjudicate who's right and who's wrong in these situations, figure out a guilty party, and try to prosecute them, or sue them to recover losses, but in the end it's just not going to be viable to run a business that way. Proving cases in court is dicey, expensive, and even when they win, there's no guarantee that there would be any money left over to recover, and in the vast majority of cases, except in situations where the amount is in the tens of thousands of dollars, it simply isn't feasible to deal with the situation in any other way than to insure against it.

I was surprised and elated at how quickly and easily the case was resolved for me. Years ago, I bought a defective (and very expensive) vacuum cleaner from a seller, which had a burned out motor that rattled when it ran and smelled like burned wiring, and had to go through hell to get my money back for it. I had to take it to an authorized repair center for the make, and get them to sign a document saying that the item was damaged. This took hours of my time, and I was lucky to find a repair place that would give me a free quote on the repair cost that was within driving distance. And once the case was decided in my favor, I didn't get money back until I shipped the thing back to the seller. Overall, it took several weeks, and multiple phone calls, each of which I spent at a minimum 20 minutes on hold to talk to a human, who had apparently been trained to not believe anything I said to them unless I could provide some kind of independent verification. Of course, any competent scammer could just forge and fake the independent verification anyway, so what did it prove in the end?

I think eBay has learned a lot in the 10 years since then, and has improved their policies and process immensely.

One hitch in the process, though -- After the 2nd day from the return, when I had not refunded the buyer, they messaged me to ask for their refund. This occurred after midnight, when I was asleep, so I didn't see the message until I woke up. By that time, the buyer had already found how to escalate the case to eBay's attention, and had done so. Apparently, eBay's left hand wasn't able to see what their right hand was doing, and refunded the buyer, billing my PayPal account to accomplish this. I found out when I woke up, but couldn't do anything about it until I got off of work. I contacted eBay customer support and explained what happened, and asked what was going on, because the previous CSR I had discussed the case with assured me that this would not happen, and had advised that I should not issue the refund. Somehow or other, the CSR who handled the case escalation from the buyer missed the counter-claim attached to the transaction, or something, and did the wrong thing. The person I spoke to reviewed the documentation that I had uploaded against the buyer's claim the day before, and within two minutes they were able to review the case, found in my favor, and told me that they would reverse the refund charge so that the money would come back to me.

However much of a pain as it might seem when you figure someone is taking advantage of you, eBay have made it about as easy as it can be to resolve matters, and put trust into the system. Even if it's not trust in the person on the other end of the transaction, necessarily, they have all angles covered now. Of course, this contributes to the cost of doing business, and that's translated into the fees they charge for listings and final value. Overall, though, I don't see any better way around it, given that there will be scammers in the world, and that catching and preventing or stopping them from doing what they do isn't feasible or cost effective. Of course it would be great if they could ban bad actors from committing scams, but the lengths they'd have to go through in order to prove cases against those people and provide appeals so that falsely accused people could be let back in, it'd just make the whole thing acrimonious and drive away customers, and eBay seem to understand it's better to keep people using the service, and endure some shrink due to fraud cases as a cost of doing business. I didn't even have to into any back-and-forth argument with the buyer, escalating to rude language and accusations.

Anyway, as much as people have complained about problems they've had, I think this case deserved to be heard about as well.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Pleased to hear you were treated fairly Guppy. There are many unscrupulous people out there waiting to take advantage of honest folk at any given opportunity.

 

[Thuggee]

Score one for the good guys.

I sold a jacket recently on eBay. I accepted a pretty good "best offer" and the buyer got a good discount from my asking price. I left positive feedback once the payment was received, and shipped the jacket out next day. It arrived in 2 days, good service from USPS Priority Mail.

Buyer contacted me the day they received it, complaining that the jacket had "damage" to the leather and demanded a refund. I looked at the photo of the claimed damage, and saw some unsightly blotchy spots which were in no conceivable way overlooked when I listed the jacket. I compared to my own photos of the item, and there was absolutely no trace of this defect.

I felt that the buyer was trying to pass off a different item to me in a fraudulent return scam, so I contacted eBay customer service, and asked what to do. They are much easier to get a hold of than they used to be, and the wait time to talk to a live person is barely anything.

I explained what was going on and asked what I could do. Customer service advised that I should accept the return, and when it comes back, if the item is damaged or not the same item as I had sent, that I would have two days upon delivery of the return to contact eBay to report the buyer and create a counter claim, and that their seller protection program would protect me against the loss.

I don't accept returns on purchases generally, but in the event of an "item not as described" you kindof have to, so I reluctantly accepted the return. Buyer shipped the jacket back to me, and the spots of damage that they were complaining about were there, plain as day and very obvious, not something I could possibly have overlooked. I don't know what caused it, but it looked to me like maybe a natural scar or blemish, not something that happened to the leather after it was tanned.

I contacted eBay customer support and reported what happened, and they told me not to refund the money, and that they would send me an affidavit form to fill out, which I needed to sign, and upload along with supporting documentation, photos, etc. Once I did so, they would review the information as soon as possible and then I would keep the money that the buyer had paid me. I asked what would happen with the buyer, and they told me that the buyer would also be refunded their money, but that this would be covered by eBay's as they use insurance to cover losses in events like this. I asked if there would be any investigation into the buyer, and they said that this was not necessary to resolve the case, and that this outcome was win-win for both parties, and that I could block the buyer from buying from me in the future but that they would be allowed to continue to use eBay.

I thought about it, and decided that in reality, while this isn't perfect, it's probably the ideal and most fair solution. eBay could spend far and away more money trying to collect documentation and adjudicate who's right and who's wrong in these situations, figure out a guilty party, and try to prosecute them, or sue them to recover losses, but in the end it's just not going to be viable to run a business that way. Proving cases in court is dicey, expensive, and even when they win, there's no guarantee that there would be any money left over to recover, and in the vast majority of cases, except in situations where the amount is in the tens of thousands of dollars, it simply isn't feasible to deal with the situation in any other way than to insure against it.

I was surprised and elated at how quickly and easily the case was resolved for me. Years ago, I bought a defective (and very expensive) vacuum cleaner from a seller, which had a burned out motor that rattled when it ran and smelled like burned wiring, and had to go through hell to get my money back for it. I had to take it to an authorized repair center for the make, and get them to sign a document saying that the item was damaged. This took hours of my time, and I was lucky to find a repair place that would give me a free quote on the repair cost that was within driving distance. And once the case was decided in my favor, I didn't get money back until I shipped the thing back to the seller. Overall, it took several weeks, and multiple phone calls, each of which I spent at a minimum 20 minutes on hold to talk to a human, who had apparently been trained to not believe anything I said to them unless I could provide some kind of independent verification. Of course, any competent scammer could just forge and fake the independent verification anyway, so what did it prove in the end?

I think eBay has learned a lot in the 10 years since then, and has improved their policies and process immensely.

One hitch in the process, though -- After the 2nd day from the return, when I had not refunded the buyer, they messaged me to ask for their refund. This occurred after midnight, when I was asleep, so I didn't see the message until I woke up. By that time, the buyer had already found how to escalate the case to eBay's attention, and had done so. Apparently, eBay's left hand wasn't able to see what their right hand was doing, and refunded the buyer, billing my PayPal account to accomplish this. I found out when I woke up, but couldn't do anything about it until I got off of work. I contacted eBay customer support and explained what happened, and asked what was going on, because the previous CSR I had discussed the case with assured me that this would not happen, and had advised that I should not issue the refund. Somehow or other, the CSR who handled the case escalation from the buyer missed the counter-claim attached to the transaction, or something, and did the wrong thing. The person I spoke to reviewed the documentation that I had uploaded against the buyer's claim the day before, and within two minutes they were able to review the case, found in my favor, and told me that they would reverse the refund charge so that the money would come back to me.

However much of a pain as it might seem when you figure someone is taking advantage of you, eBay have made it about as easy as it can be to resolve matters, and put trust into the system. Even if it's not trust in the person on the other end of the transaction, necessarily, they have all angles covered now. Of course, this contributes to the cost of doing business, and that's translated into the fees they charge for listings and final value. Overall, though, I don't see any better way around it, given that there will be scammers in the world, and that catching and preventing or stopping them from doing what they do isn't feasible or cost effective. Of course it would be great if they could ban bad actors from committing scams, but the lengths they'd have to go through in order to prove cases against those people and provide appeals so that falsely accused people could be let back in, it'd just make the whole thing acrimonious and drive away customers, and eBay seem to understand it's better to keep people using the service, and endure some shrink due to fraud cases as a cost of doing business. I didn't even have to into any back-and-forth argument with the buyer, escalating to rude language and accusations.

Anyway, as much as people have complained about problems they've had, I think this case deserved to be heard about as well.

So you got the money back and your jacket?


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[rocketeer]

Around 15 years ago I sold a small pin badge, value £13 to a buyer in Canada(I am in England). On receiving this badge the seller posted positive feedback and a 'great item' style review, I also gave a positive review of the deal.
Imagine my surprise, nearly 6 months later, receiving a letter from eBay saying, "This item was purchased with an un authorised credit card" eBay adding that I would need to refund the buyer , adding the customer requires a refund and need not return the item! I still had my postage receipt which had a Canadian postal code on it but by this time the UK postal service no longer kept any form of tracking record/ proof of postage.
The result being that the customer had his item, was happy with it and didn't have to pay for it. This took slightly longer than expected but as I wrote to eBay to explain all this they applied an £8 refund 'fine' as the refund was out of their time frame due to the purchase with this credit card was via Paypal.
Since that sale I am now wary of ever selling to low feedback international transactions. I do hope things have changed at eBay/Paypal, they are forever changing rules to the buyers advantage, In my opinion the eBay Paypal thing should never have been allowed, and it looks as though they try to make private sellers work in a similar fashion to shop sellers, and in that I mean high street stores also.

 

[Guppy]

So you got the money back and your jacket?


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No. I got to keep my money, and a jacket that the buyer returned to me, but it wasn't mine.

 

[Carlos840]

No. I got to keep my money, and a jacket that the buyer returned to me, but it wasn't mine.

So the dude had a jacket with damage, and found the same jacket online that he bought to then return his damaged jacket instead!
Who the F does that? People are scum!

 

[Thuggee]

That’s crazy who does that


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[JMax]

The guy certainly lacks a code, but in the end, ebay is the one getting screwed. Guppy received payment for the sale and can now sell the jacket he is stuck with for some additional profit. I would have been pissed throughout the ordeal, no question. But Guppy appears to be ok with the final disposition.

 

[Fonzie]

Man that is some crazy twisted stuff! He must have planned it for a while then!

 

[ton312]

I can’t imagine even caring enough to hatch a plan like that. That’s some next level, super bad Kharma type shit. I would be afraid to go outside after pulling a stunt like that.

 

[navetsea]

just reading Guppy's report is a work, can't imagine going through the ordeal myself, I never sell anything through ebay though, I haven't used ebay in years since I found cheaper, easier, faster alternatives through shopping apps for cheap china stuff and toys

 

[Thuggee]

This sort of thing I’ve read happening with watches and eBay, buyer gets watch claims it’s not working/damaged, turns out the buyer has taken parts or the whole movement and swapped out their broke parts returned supposedly broken watch to the seller, imagine trying to prove the buyer took the movement.


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[Guppy]

This sort of thing I’ve read happening with watches and eBay, buyer gets watch claims it’s not working/damaged, turns out the buyer has taken parts or the whole movement and swapped out their broke parts returned supposedly broken watch to the seller, imagine trying to prove the buyer took the movement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. I'm going to have to start doing videos of my items that go over everything in minute detail so I can prevail in the event of a claim like this again. At a certain point it's not worth it to try to sell. Even though this case worked out well for me, there's still a lot of ways that a buyer can claim something and have it go wrong, and you can end up getting screwed.

 

[Fonzie]

That’s why I’ll never sell on eBay again.
It might be a good thing though, I might get to “actually” use and break in some of my jackets and get some real patina for once.

 

[ton312]

That’s why I’ll never sell on eBay again.
It might be a good thing though, I might get to “actually” use and break in some of my jackets and get some real patina for once.

#metoo

 

[Fonzie]

#metoo

#yeahright

 

[navetsea]

These people are real criminal mastermind.... probably only time before someone buy a knife, kill someone with it, wipe it down and send it back to another continent.

 

[Monitor]

eBay should REALLY stop ruining peoples hopes and dreams with the "Reserve" price thing! It's beyond stupid. It just doesn't do anything for the potential buyer thus harming the seller even as once everyone gets tired of stabbing in the dark, people will just slowly give up and back away. I've been the highest bidder on this auction a few times already but never actually won anything because of the reserve price. What this means is that I literally CANNOT buy the thing! My bid was $200 higher than what the item ended on but that doesn't mean a thing because the other bidders didn't push the price nearly high enough for my bid to have any effect.

I understand that the seller is reluctant to let go of an item for a ridiculously low amount but the reserve is the worst possible way to go about it. Just set up either a starting bid at whatever you're comfortable letting your item go or make a bin. I don't understand why is eBay encouraging this option as it's the worst possible way to go about doing business.