Early War Birds or Late War Birds?

[MDFrench]

Hey all,

I was pondering this today and realized that all of my favorite planes from World War II are "early birds."

Specifically, I have always been fascinated with the Spitfire MK I & MK II, the P-40 Kittyhawk, and the B-17F.

The three fighters were of course, the mainstays of the British and U.S. air forces in the early years of the war. And the B-17F, while a late model B-17, was the early mainstay in the European Theatre before the Chin-gunned "G" took center stage.

I guess there is something just mystical about the odds these planes faced early on. The B-17F faced ugly odds in the early days of the daylight bombing campaign, the Spitfires I don't even have to explain, and the P-40 of course was the plane that comprised the AVG Flying Tigers. Maybe I just like the underdog, but I think there is something almost futuristic about the later model fighters.

Don't get me wrong - the P-51 and the P-38 are great looking planes, but there is just something "progressive" about them that lacks the early aesthetic charm of the early birds.

Does anybody understand what I am talking about, or am I crazy?

 

[Marlowe]

Well, actually the P-38 was in service at the "beginning" of the war. (I.e., when America entered the war.)

(Oh, and yes, you're crazy, 'cause I understand what you're talking about. Although, I like the Mustang, the Corsair, etc. Never really took a shine to the Superfortress, though...)

 

[Wild Root]

Me, I love the early planes of WWII. The B-17F is my favorite model of the Fortress. I also like the C and D models. The B-17E was the first model that featured the larger rudder and tail gun.

My favorite model of the P-40 is the P-40B and C. I also love the early models of the P-51! The P-47 Thunderbolt is a sweet bird as well! Any one like the B-26? That one looks sweet too!

Ok, now how about the B-10? You boys know of this one?

Here are some photos to enjoy.

Root.

 

[Wild Root]

Martin B-26

 

[Wild Root]

Here's a B-17C model that the UK used in the early part of the war.

 

[Wild Root]

I really like these early models in their unpainted AAF look. Super!
This is a D model.

 

[Wild Root]

Here is the lady that started it all! The YB-17! She's so sweet!

 

[MDFrench]

What's really depressing about those photos is that the early B-17s don't even exist anymore. The only one left is the B-17D, Swoose, and she's in pathetic shape in the Smithsonian's storage facility. It is unlikely she will ever be restored.

If I had a billion dollars, I would start a vintage aviation business and replicate vintage warbirds in 1:1 scale with new alloy and engine technology and make these to order for discerning buyers.

It's a pipe dream, but I already know of a man who is making 8 1:1 scale P-40 Warhawk flyable replicas for a few million a piece. All of them have already been sold and they aren't even finished.

Mike

 

[Wild Root]

Yeah, that B-17D the Smithsonian's got is really something they should restore! It's really sad that the early ones are all gone!

Reproducing a WWII plane is quite an idea. It's something that I wanted to do for a long time but lack the means and knowledge.
If Cash was no object, then I would have them all built like the originals. I would do all models that any one wanted. It would be so cool to see an YB-17 fling around today!

Hey, have you heard the bad news? Yeah, a few days ago, I saw on the news that there was a crash at an air show in Downy California! I saw the footage and it was a rare plane! An early 1930's Ford Try-motor! Like you see in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom! I saw that thing crash in to the parking lot. I would see that plane fly over my house from time to time and she was a real gem! Early 30's passenger planes are really rare as well. It's a crying shame:cry: Hopefully the crash wasn’t a total loss. Hope they plan to rebuild her. My uncle crashed his WWII Stearman on a landing and he rebuilt it. Took some time though.

Here are some more photos for your enjoyment.

Root.

 

[MikeyB17]

I see what you chaps mean. the F-model is my favourite B-17 as well, it just seems a bit more elegant than the G. I agree also that the B-26 is a beautiful aircraft, love that cigar-shaped fuselage. I'm also with you on the early P-47's and P-51's-the teardrop canopy may have given better visibilty but I think the old 'razorback' style looks better. Particular favourites of mine are the P-39-apparently lovely to fly and lovely to look at too-and the Corsair-not to everyone's taste but a real big brute of an aircraft. Another favourite of mine is the A-(later B-) 26 Invader-OK, a later war aircraft I know, but I still like it. I was glad to see awhile back that they're getting an F-model B-17 back into the air up in Seattle-I'll have a look later and see what the latest is-or perhaps you lads can tell me!

 

[Wild Root]

The A-26 never did become a B-26. Two different aircraft as far as I know. Any one here an A-20 Havoc fan? That’s a swell looking plane as well.

I believe that there is a B-17F that’s flying around dressed in the exact markings of the Memphis Belle.

The B-17G to me is still a grate plane. The early G still had the same tail gunner windows as the F model. But, the later G’s started to look very modern

I am a big fan of the Vought Corsair! Love that Gull wing. That plane came in early in the war as well! As for the Bell P-39, that is a very unique plane. The engine was right behind the pilot and the drive shaft was right between the pilot’s legs. A very hard plane to work on, it was a plane that had a car door styled way of entry and exit. First of its type.

An all time fave of mine is the B-25! B-C-D-H-J models!

Happy landings!

Root.

 

[MDFrench]

Actually,

That Memphis Belle flying replica is a G with the chin guns removed.

Remind me sometime to tell you guys about my family's close, close connection with the actual Memphis Belle on both sides of the water.

Mike

 

[up196]

Allow me to elaborate . . .

Originally posted by Wild Root
The A-26 never did become a B-26. Two different aircraft as far as I know.

The B-26 "Marauder" (bomber), as pictured above, was built by Martin. The A-26 "Invader" (attack) was a Douglas product, very similar in layout and appearence to the A-20, which it was intended to replace.

Early on, the Marauder gained a reputation of being difficult to keep in the air, due to its designed high wing loading coupled with crews inexperienced with the type. The problem was corrected by changes in training and design.

Following WWII, the Marauders were retired. Their role in the service was taken over by the Douglas Invader, which was subsequently re-designated as the B-26.

 

[Wild Root]

Memphis Belle.

Well, it was funny one day I was looking on the net and I saw a photo that looked like a real F model that was painted up exactly like the real belle! She had the correct cheek guns and she had all the correct markings! Look like a carbon copy! But, I can’t seem to find it any where! But, I found the B-17G that played in the movie. They really have done some good work on her. The nose art is correct finally and looks like they are getting it to look really period. If some of you gents don’t know, the real Memphis Belle is on display in Memphis Tenancy! I’ll post some photos of it and you can make a comparison with the real and the look a like.

Didn’t know that after the war the A-26 was renamed to be a B-26. That’s funny that they would do that. I know for years the A-26’s have been used as fire bombers as well with C-47’s. The only reason why we have what we have today is because of fires! They saw service with the fire departments over the US in the 60’s and were sold off in the 70’s when WWII planes started to be collectable. There is a veteran B-17G at March Field here in California that at one time after the war was used by a farmer as a cattle crap hauler. There was a large door cut into the left waist gun for loading crap! It was used for years then sold off. The March Field museum got it and restored it to WWII combat condition! It’s flyable and sure was fun going in side her and looking around all by my self! More on that later he he he.

Keep’em flying!

Root.

 

[Wild Root]

Here she is, the real Belle!

 

[Wild Root]

Here's another shot.

 

[up196]

More research . . .

The A-26B originally had a solid nose with 8 forward firing guns for ground attack. The A-26C had a glassed nose for use as a light bomber. The name change occurred about 1948, when the Air Force did away with the "A-" designation, thus making them the B-26B and B-26C, respectively.

The Louisiana Air National Guard flew them, and they have one on display at Jackson Barracks along with the nose of a second showing both the 26B and C types. I'll try to get over there this week and take some pictures . . . Tom

 

[PrettyBigGuy]

Re: More research . . .

Originally posted by up196
The A-26B originally had a solid nose with 8 forward firing guns for ground attack. The A-26C had a glassed nose for use as a light bomber. The name change occurred about 1948, when the Air Force did away with the "A-" designation, thus making them the B-26B and B-26C, respectively.

I've preferred the Invader to the Marauder. A good movie that features these planes is the 1989 Spielberg film Always with Richard Dreyfuss. The Invaders are used to fight forest fires instead of dropping bombs, but the film does have some cool scenes. A PBY Catalina is even featured!

Love the F4U-1 Corsair, the P-38 Lightening, and the P-40 Tigershark. If I had to pick a favorite though, I'd have to say the P-47 Thunderbolt with the "razorback" canopy is it. I may have mentioned this on this site before, but the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the P-51 "tank busters"
arrive to save the day always aggrevates me. Didn't spielberg give those planes enough of a nod in Empire of the Sun ? Why not give the Jug the spotlight and show it performing the role it was built for?

 

[Wild Root]

‘Always’ was a good film! I liked it very much. It was a remake of the 1942 Film A Guy Named Joe. The PBY was a nice touch to the film seeing that I love that plane as well! How cool would it be to have a PBY Catalina! I love flying boats.

The A-26 had 8 50's mounted in the nose in the first model is much like the B-25J's. The B-25J came with two different noses. My self, I like the Martin B-26 in the way of looks and design. Looks more like a WWII bomber. They sent the B-25J hard nose with the 8 50's to most Pacific theaters for strafing ships and small island air fields. Any one know much about the B-25H? This had a 75mm cannon that was mounted in the nose just under the pilot's seat! A crew member would have to crawl under the cockpit to get to this single fire cannon. A crew member once said that when that cannon was fired, he would swear that the plane flew backwards for a second!

Root.

 

[up196]

Catalina

Consolidated had a plant in New Orleans where Franklin Avenue meets Lake Ponchartrain. It was a giant affair of hangers that in later years was the American Standars Plumbing plant before it was destroyed in a fire. Funny thing was, there was no airstrip. They just taxied the Catalinas across Lakeshore Drive, down a ramp cut into the seawall and away they'd go!

Here's the inside of the plant sometime in 1944.