Early War Birds or Late War Birds?

[Hondo]

Rongoms: Not really being into aviation, just a lover of B-17’s since childhood, seen some early 1940’ish movies with early versions in them, always great to know her history, Thanks for the Boeing Links!!!!

BTW: Come back Wildroot!!! Where ever you are.

 

[Fletch]

It's interesting the way the merger has pitted one group of archivists against the other within the company. The "Douglas" people are quite militant about their history and go to great lengths to always show some MD superiority over Boeing products. It's almost comical.

Historians are often that way. It's especially bad when the history is basically private and arcane in nature. With no peer community to answer to, backstabbing runs amok.

 

[captcouv]

Great thread (and finally a couple of guys talking about Pacific planes - of course, I'm a jarhead, too!).

Really love the P-40, the F4F & F6F, the Catalina, and the C-47, but also the looks of the Buffalo and the P-30/P-400. The guy I bought my first house from was an A-20 Havoc pilot in the European theater. My old CPA was a glider pilot on D-Day and at Market Garden. I loved talking to those guys.

I also know Jeff DeBlanc (USMC Medal of Honor) who still lives in Lafayette, LA. When I finally screwed up enough courage to ask what plane he liked best, he snorted, "You probably want me to say the Corsair! But baby, that Hellcat had it all over the F4! Man, I could take the Cat at a head-on pass on any Jap plane and blow it out of the sky before he got to me. Plus, whenever I had a ground target, the Cat really put steel on target and I could drive it right down to 100ft and still pull out!" I bought him another beer...

 

[jph712]

P-61 Black Widow, plus more

For fans or admirers of the Northrop P-61 Black Widow, visit www.maam.org. The Mid Atlantic Air Museum has 1 of 4 existing P-61s under restoration, photos showing recovery in New Guinea and restoration progress are on the site.

That Stuka in Chicago is as recovered in North Africa, never restored 'preserved' as-is. The engine is displayed seperately to save on weight in the hanging exhibit. All the paint is original German, would be a real shame to restore from original.

French prop driven fighters = ugly

 

[captcouv]

... P-30/P-400. ...

Sheesh, that should be P-39.

Also like the Hawk 75.

Look at the Japanese planes, too. Claude, 'Zero', Betty, Rafe... Great planes! And who doesn't love the Stuka, Storch, ME109 or FW190?

 

[Smithy]

Because I'm a bit of a Battle of Britain nut, I perhaps have the slightest preference for the early WWII aircraft. The early Spitfire I and Hurricane I had the cleanest lines of their designs at the start of the War (IMHO), before cannons and various other adaptations, necessitated by needs for more peformance and firepower, changed the aircraft's aesthetics.

However when it comes to bombers it's the later War examples which I prefer, Lancs, B-17Gs. etc. And the Mossie in all her guises (fighter bomber, bomber, night fighter, recon) I adore. What a beautiful aircraft.

And there's others I like from all periods of the War... the P-51D, the stubby little FW-190A, the Westland Whirlwind, Me-109F...

So I'm probably sitting a little on the fence on this one. There's aircraft from all stages of the War which I like. But if I had to lean towards one side or other, I suppose I'd fall off onto the early War side. As well as the beauty of something like an early Spit, it's also their role and how they represent the greatest aviation battle of all time.

 

[TailendCharlie]

Early Bird gets the worm P-39

Here's one of my faves a bit of a odd duck,but I always liked thename.Aircobra;www.adamsplanes.com/photogallery/Loisel/P39 in New Guinea.jpg over and out

 

[dhermann1]

P 39

A much maligned plane. The Russians loved them because most of their dogfighting was at a much lower altitude, plus they were great for strafing.
Speaking of Gyrenes, as I've mentioned in other threads. I have bound volumes of Leatherneck magazine from 1944 and 1945. My brother took the 1945 with him to Oshkosh some years back and got Pappy Boyington's autograph on the article about him in the Dec 45 issue. Pretty cool.
Another pretty cool late plane, Gloster Meteor. Can you imagine a 1946 war over Europe with Meteors and P 80's versus some of the advanced German types! Boggles the mind. And I've always been pretty impressed with the B29. It blew everyone in the worlds' minds at the time. Stalin even had a whole fleet of exact replicas built for his air force.
BTW, nobody's mentioned any Russian planes. They had some pretty impressive machines, too!

 

[Spitfire]

The early ones...

What can be more beautifull:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
But - like Smithy - I wote for the early Mark's (This Spit ia a bad example - with clipped wings and all...)
And no matter my username - I tend to love the Hurricane the most. What a sturdy, reliable aeroplane it was. Could take a lot of beating. The bullets went straight through the canvas/wood - and still she flew.

 

[Twitch]

The fabric and even plywood covering of many WW 2 planes actually lended to their survival in that ordnance passed through doing no vital damage allowing them to keep going.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Spitfire

What can be more beautifull:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
But - like Smithy - I wote for the early Mark's (This Spit ia a bad example - with clipped wings and all...)

That's a LFIXe - built at Castle Bromwich in March 1944.

Alan

 

[Smithy]

A much maligned plane. The Russians loved them because most of their dogfighting was at a much lower altitude, plus they were great for strafing.[

A lot of the "bad press" that the P-39 gets is the fact that it was a dismal performer at altitude and also from the experience that 601 had with them, where to be honest the aircraft was hopelessly unsuited to the type on airwar which the RAF was waging over France and the Low Countries at the time. This has coloured the reputation of the aircraft but not without reason.

The P-39 was more suited to Eastern Front operations than Western Front due to the nature of the airfighting taking place there. In the East the airwar which the Soviets were fighting was more ground support oriented and also due to the severe weather which affects that part of the world at certain times of the year operational ceilings were lower.

Poor old 601 Squadron got lumbered with the things and found they were almost completely useless in the RAF's offensive ops on the Western Front over occupied Europe, mostly due to the fact that the P-39 was hopeless above 15,000 ft. The Rodeos, Ramrods, Circuses and Ranger ops that the RAF were pursuing at the time and the opposition aircraft that the RAF was facing demanded at least adequate performance at and above this height.

There were also numerous other problems with 601's aircraft. The compass had a tendency to be thrown out of alignment when the guns were fired (not particularly useful when you are over occupied France of Belgium, or the North Sea for that matter). In terms of night operations it was a dud, the exhaust flames could be seen up to 3 miles away, and when the guns were fired at night, the pilot was usually nearly blinded. Its fairly long take-off run was not very helpful as well, as it prevented the aircraft being operational from certain aerodromes. The aircraft required a huge raft of modifications when they were received by 601 and still needed many more even at the time when 601 gave them up.

The Russians were successful with them but the aircraft was more suited to the war they were waging. And in the PTO there was also a need for high altitude performance and once again the P-39 was lacking. It eventually (as in Russia) gained some success in the ground support role in the Pacific but was out-shined by better performing aircraft. There is no doubt though that the Russians had the most success with the aircraft.

 

[Spitfire]

The fabric and even plywood covering of many WW 2 planes actually lended to their survival in that ordnance passed through doing no vital damage allowing them to keep going.

Besides the Hurricane, the (beautiful) Mosquito and some very early ones like swordfish etc, which other WWII planes are you thinking about, Twitch?

 

[TailendCharlie]

Dashing young men in their flying machines

Besides the Hurricane, the (beautiful) Mosquito and some very early ones like swordfish etc, which other WWII planes are you thinking about, Twitch?

This pilot has quite the impressive record;www.adamsplanes.com/images/Tuck/Tuck_in_cockpit.jpg
Is it me or do the men all seem to look like Errol Flynn or
Clark Gable?

 

[Smithy]

Tuck was originally on Spitfires and was less than impressed to be posted as CO to 257 with Hurricanes towards the end of the Battle. However he soon learnt to like the aircraft and stated many times afterwards that compared with the Spitfire, the Hurricane was a better gun platform, better in a turning dogfight and could take more punishment.

You're not the first one to make the Errol Flynn remark about Tuck

 

[Alan Eardley]

fabric

Besides the Hurricane, the (beautiful) Mosquito and some very early ones like swordfish etc, which other WWII planes are you thinking about, Twitch?

Vickers Wellington?

Alan

 

[The Wingnut]

I'm a mid-war type of guy. I like razorback P-47s (anything D-24 and earlier), A & B/C Mustangs, FW-190A-3s, Nakajima Ki-84s, and early Hawker Typhoon 1Bs.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Didn't the Mosquito have, by virtue of its wooden construction, a rather low radar return? An early "Stealth Bomber"?

A great looking and performing airplane as well. Two Merlins can really put out some power, eh?

 

[Spitfire]

That's a LFIXe - built at Castle Bromwich in March 1944.

Alan

Thanks Allan. No doubt it's a great plane - I just meant it was not the typical Spit Mark I silhouette.

 

[Spitfire]

Didn't the Mosquito have, by virtue of its wooden construction, a rather low radar return? An early "Stealth Bomber"?

A great looking and performing airplane as well. Two Merlins can really put out some power, eh?

The Mosquitoplane you see here was part of the RAF group that bombed the Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen (Formerly the Sheel Company Building - seen burning in the top left corner) March 21 1945.
Because Gestapo had placed 26 danish prisoners on the top floor as a bombshield, the planes had to fly almost on streetlevel - in between the buildings - in order to try to bomb almost horizontal.
The reason for the bombing was that Gestapo had too much knowledge in their archives of the danish resistance, so they (the danish resistance) asked RAF to bomb the building. Otherwise large parts of the danish resistance would have been arrested and killed.

The attack was done in broad daylight and the bombing was so precise, that 18 of the 26 prisoners from the top floor even managed to escape.

Unfortunately there was a tragic misunderstanding during the bombing, when a plane chashed after hitting a LIGHTPOLE !!! (That's how low they flew) some of the following pilots thought the burning plane to be the target and dropped their bombs on a school - "The French School" - and 96children and 13 teachers and nuns were tragically killed.
But the raid was a succes - thanks to the Mosquitos and their gallant crews.

Just after the war, when Wingcommandor Johnny Johnson, - who was in charge of the RAF wing that landed in Kastrup Airfield, Copenhagen may 6th 1945 - heard about the accidental bombing, he arranged a airshow with his spitfires, so the danes could see the famous planes in flight. The money payed in entrance fee all went to the families of the dead children from the French School.
Several thousand copenhagerners went to the airshow.