Durable cotton t-shirts to pair with leather jackets

[Big J]

@zebedee, yes, for me it's a real challenge to find socks that are capable of maintaining both richness of color and texture after repeated washing (in fact, TBH, separating my laundry into various colors, fabrics etc so that things get washed on the correct cycle consumes a disordinate amount of time, but the results speak for themselves. I could just throw it all in 'whites' and 'colors' bags and send it out for laundering, but in addition to the uncomfortable racial connotations involved, I just know that separating by colors isn't enough; separation by fabrics is essential for longevity).
This can indeed impact significantly on ones sense of wellbeing. The whole point of decent quality socks (or any clothes for that matter!) is to help make us feel positive about ourselves as a function of the reaction our look inspires in others.
But there's a point right out there on the effort involved/approval feedback curve that goes beyond the point of diminishing returns and possibly into 'a poor investment of mental and physical effort territory'. The kind of place where even with nice socks and a good ensemble, maintaining that look is just emotionally draining, maybe?
I'm sure some people could just make it look effortless though.

 

[Mich486]

activities in internet forums about denim are stunted somewhere in mid 2018, 2019 is practically quite dead... I still see activities in instagram on local brand accounts here, but I see people are getting tired of talking about their pants or commenting about other people pants over and over again, and I kind of see people are tired to talk about clothes in general too maybe it is oversaturation from previous years

That’s why rawdenim.com became heddles.com. All that had to be said about it has been said and more. It keeps going with this fade Friday nonsense but the only ones who seem to care are a guy in Switzerland and and some people in se Asia. The urban lumberjack look (red wing, raw denim and flannels) is out of fashion and so many raw denim enthusiasts moved on.

Not sure about the fact that people are tired to talk about clothes in general though but the workwear trend in general has definitely faded compared to 5 years ago. I bet people will get tired to talk about leather jackets too at some point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[navetsea]

I don't see any real trend in menwear that catches on, maybe the general people just recovering from previous trend and wise up and just wearing normal style not worthy of a news. also generally about formal shoes and formal wear, those threads too are getting quiet.

leather jacket though, even when the scope sounds limited, but in reality it cover much larger style options than workwear style, and the lifespan of a leather jacket is much longer than jeans, so even when a member already have completed their collection, they still can wear that jacket and post about its little evolution or see how it combines with other item they wear it with and not necessarily about the destruction of the item unlike in denim forum, where member feel they can only post stuff the just bought, and showing off when it is already ready to be retired, inbetween they just have to either like other members pictures or doing too much in a pair of pants to fast forward their process into destruction and buy a new one to stay relevant.

 

[Peter Bowden]

Interesting and thorough write-up by Heddels. Thanks for posting.

Unfortunately, they do not review the t-shirts that I personally favor (e.g., TFH, SO, RMC, PBJ, Warehouse, etc.). I am confident that the outcome would have been very different had these brands been included.

The writer concluded that the Lady White was the best of the reviewed t-shirts. I have a Lady White t-shirt and it is a simple, no-nonsense, well-made product. That said, TFH, SO, RMC, PBJ, and Warehouse t-shirts, among others, are – IMHO – far better. Of course, they are also more expensive.

My biggest gripe with the article was the writer’s downgrading of t-shirts that did not fit him well, coupled with his failure to purchase the proper size of each model. The writer purchased a size large of each t-shirt, regardless of the varied dimensions of each individual brand. The dimensions of size “large” vary dramatically from brand to brand. With some brands (e.g., SO), I wear an XL. With other brands (e.g., Filson), I wear a small. Given that the reviewer purchased a large of every shirt, without regard for variations in dimensions, he was guaranteed to have many shirts that did not fit him well/properly. Had fit not been a component of the review and ranking, the reviewer’s myopic focus on size large would not have been a problem. However, the reviewed exalted the fit of certain brands and likewise strongly criticized the fit of other brands, and these variations factored significantly in his overall review/ranking. The reviewer should have looked at the dimensions of each t-shirt – as any savvy buyer does – and endeavored to purchase the best fitting size in each brand.

Lastly, the reviewer did not review the best model t-shirt offered by each reviewed brand. For example, Sugar Cane offers Whitesville t-shirts in both the light/medium weight two-pack model and the heavy weight singles. The heavy weight is twice as expensive and palpably better. The reviewer reviewed the lessor two-pack model. The reviewer also did not review the best t-shirts offered by Left Field and Velva Sheen (in my experience, even the better Left Field and Velva Sheen t-shirts are overrated).

@zebedee, yes, for me it's a real challenge to find socks that are capable of maintaining both richness of color and texture after repeated washing (in fact, TBH, separating my laundry into various colors, fabrics etc so that things get washed on the correct cycle consumes a disordinate amount of time, but the results speak for themselves. I could just throw it all in 'whites' and 'colors' bags and send it out for laundering, but in addition to the uncomfortable racial connotations involved, I just know that separating by colors isn't enough; separation by fabrics is essential for longevity).
This can indeed impact significantly on ones sense of wellbeing. The whole point of decent quality socks (or any clothes for that matter!) is to help make us feel positive about ourselves as a function of the reaction our look inspires in others.
But there's a point right out there on the effort involved/approval feedback curve that goes beyond the point of diminishing returns and possibly into 'a poor investment of mental and physical effort territory'. The kind of place where even with nice socks and a good ensemble, maintaining that look is just emotionally draining, maybe?
I'm sure some people could just make it look effortless though.

It all makes sense with a monogram!
https://www.pantherella.com/monogram

 

[zebedee]

It all makes sense with a monogram!
https://www.pantherella.com/monogram

That's what I've been looking for- a 'Vintage Repro' monogram!

 

[SimonR]

Well this thread has MADE me spend even more money ... worried that my Dickies workwear t shirts aren't up to snuff I've ordered a two pack of the Shugar Cane Whiteville T's over the Lady White offering as the former seems to have a thicker collar that I prefer and a 2 pack of the Muji mentioned earlier in the thread .... I'll report back

 

[John Lukich]

Got my Lady White's in. Can't really talk about them in comparison to others as my experience is limited, but they're certainly nicer than any white t-shirt I've ever handled. Bit longer than I'd prefer, but that's the case for just about everything (I'm 168cm / 5'6"). Fit pics later.

 

[Big J]

@zebedee, yes, but what font is that in? I can't see in the photo on my phone. If the font is wrong, just forget the whole thing, you'll look like a tourist wannabe IMHO.

 

[zebedee]

@zebedee, yes, but what font is that in? I can't see in the photo on my phone. If the font is wrong, just forget the whole thing, you'll look like a tourist wannabe IMHO.

I'm going with something from the 30s.

 

[Big J]

@zebedee, nice.

Have you seen these? I'm really interested in this design style from the Carpathians. Nice and 'outdoorsy', but also has an 'old world' traditional feel;

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/466565858/woolen-handmade-socks-from-ukraine-by-umountain-cr

You're in Asia too right? Maybe that's why we seem to be the only ones who don't neglect our choice of sock. That's ok, for some people socks are just utilitarian 'shoe liners', but in some parts of Asia they are much more important than that.
I have to buy all my underwear (and that's a misnomer for socks in Japan) on the internet due to my size, so there really isn't a 'budget choice' for me- I may as well go the whole hog.

And as I said, in Japan, socks aren't underwear, they are outerwear. People take their shoes off every time they go indoors (offices, restaurants, school, etc) so socks are on display all day for everyone to see! Dirty soled white socks will put a social millstone around the wearers neck for life. People here take their sock choice seriously. Ladies go out wearing strappy heels, but have socks in their bag incase they go indoors.
I think this culture persists in some places that were part of the Japanese Empire too; Korea and Taiwan spring to mind.

And not just in Asia, but surely anywhere, socks are on open display publicly as well, aren't they? When sitting down or ascending/descending stairs and steps (even if you're wearing trousers not shorts), you're giving the people around you a glimpse of your socks. And just like flashing a beautiful woman you've only just been introduced to a suggestive smile, why wouldn't you want to use this opportunity to use your sock choice to telegraph something about your uniqueness?

Surely just a matter of time until some marketing genius invents the 'authentic' 'heritage' artisanal sock for the hipster crowd to obsess over. Then I can start making them in Japan for added 'cool' points.

 

[navetsea]

I choose my pants long enough so when I sit even with leg crossed over the other my sock doesn't get in view, if they must it would be black simple one. In my family there is no taking off footwear or changing footwear policy whenever entering our house from outside even into bedroom, but Im used to always use the doormats whenever I see one they are like speedbumps for me. in my mother's family there is such policy to park outside footwear near the entrance and change into sandals they also change clothes as soon as they arrive home with house clothes, but since my parents separated when I was young I didn't grow up with their style.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I never wear shoes inside my home or most people's homes.

I would love to find socks that wear well but don't cost prices that take the piss out of being a consumer.

 

[Rich22]

Socks? Simple for me: Marks&Spencer black sports socks. I tried fancy wool socks, but those are fine. Comfy, padded, last well, fit well. $20ish for pack of 5. I don’t try to make a statement with my socks and don’t like them thin or at all shiny. Been satisfied with these for 25 years so far.

And I also tend to remove footwear in houses, and when it’s carpets and it’s not particularly cold, then cotton socks are fine (woollen socks don’t tend to get on with carpets).

 

[Edward]

Unfortunately, they do not review the t-shirts that I personally favor (e.g., TFH, SO, RMC, PBJ, Warehouse, etc.). I am confident that the outcome would have been very different had these brands been included.

The writer concluded that the Lady White was the best of the reviewed t-shirts. I have a Lady White t-shirt and it is a simple, no-nonsense, well-made product. That said, TFH, SO, RMC, PBJ, and Warehouse t-shirts, among others, are – IMHO – far better. Of course, they are also more expensive.

That would have been the reason they weren't included, though, wouldn't it: didn't the article specify that there was a $100 ceiling applied? It would be interesting, definitely, to see a follow-up piece comparing the brands you mention across the $100-200 range, and giving a detailed analysis of what the difference actually is between a $100 dollar t-shirt and (say) a $200 one. Be interesting to see exactly where the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and how marked its curve is.

My biggest gripe with the article was the writer’s downgrading of t-shirts that did not fit him well, coupled with his failure to purchase the proper size of each model. The writer purchased a size large of each t-shirt, regardless of the varied dimensions of each individual brand. The dimensions of size “large” vary dramatically from brand to brand. With some brands (e.g., SO), I wear an XL. With other brands (e.g., Filson), I wear a small. Given that the reviewer purchased a large of every shirt, without regard for variations in dimensions, he was guaranteed to have many shirts that did not fit him well/properly. Had fit not been a component of the review and ranking, the reviewer’s myopic focus on size large would not have been a problem. However, the reviewed exalted the fit of certain brands and likewise strongly criticized the fit of other brands, and these variations factored significantly in his overall review/ranking. The reviewer should have looked at the dimensions of each t-shirt – as any savvy buyer does – and endeavored to purchase the best fitting size in each brand.

It would maybe have made more sense if the sizes were more fixed - e.g. he was talking about a 44R across the board. That said, while I'd agree to some extent re fit, I personally find it much more interesting to see that comparison on the variance of a L across all the brands rather than what would read like an equally arbitrary list of odd sizing. Is that information - measurements for what a L et cetera actually means - available across the board for all these brands? If not, that could be another reason why it was done this way. It would be interesting to see a follow-up piece on this with the reviewer wearing the correct measured size (however labelled) and see if that made any difference.

Lastly, the reviewer did not review the best model t-shirt offered by each reviewed brand. For example, Sugar Cane offers Whitesville t-shirts in both the light/medium weight two-pack model and the heavy weight singles. The heavy weight is twice as expensive and palpably better. The reviewer reviewed the lessor two-pack model. The reviewer also did not review the best t-shirts offered by Left Field and Velva Sheen (in my experience, even the better Left Field and Velva Sheen t-shirts are overrated).

Could that have been a price thing? It may also have been that the point of the test was to review a bunch of shirts at all price points within the $100 range, rather than a range of $100 shirts. Again, though, that would be an interesting fill-in for a follow-up piece.

Another aspect of follow-up I'd like to see is a long-term test. Three white Ts at 20, 50 and 100 bucks a pop might seem identical now, but I'd love to see how they compare in a year, three years, five years.... if that 100 dollar t shirt lasts ten years and still looks presentable, then it starts to look much better value than the 20 dollar oe that goes grey and shapeless within a year...

Has anyone tried these? I believe they cost around $150 a pair, waxed cotton. An essential item for the high end under garment connoisseur. LOL.
View attachment 174193

I'm not clear - is the wax cotton here to keep the damp *out* or *in*?

Not sure about the fact that people are tired to talk about clothes in general though but the workwear trend in general has definitely faded compared to 5 years ago. I bet people will get tired to talk about leather jackets too at some point.

It seems still to have enough of a following to keep a wide range of high end brands in business, but the fashion set are inevitably moving on - fashion, of course, depends on novelty to sell. There's also an element of churn in any interest community. There will always be some old hands who hang around, maybe with less new to say about denim or w.h.y. than once they might, and then there is the turnover every few years, with some dirfiting away and a new crowd who want to discuss the same things anew. Even happens here on TFL to some extent.

The denimhead thing does seem to me to be very much led by fashions of its own - labels, weights, finishes, cuts - but of course that also holds true in terms of things that are popular among those of us who prefer to adhere to the aesthetics of a set period in time. See, for instance, the popluar features of retro leather jackets that change over time, from heavy to midweight leather, one piece backs to multiple, and so on.

Got my Lady White's in. Can't really talk about them in comparison to others as my experience is limited, but they're certainly nicer than any white t-shirt I've ever handled. Bit longer than I'd prefer, but that's the case for just about everything (I'm 168cm / 5'6"). Fit pics later.

The length would be a bonus to me. I've made the occasional mistake with buying a modern shirt that looks right otherwise, butg turns out to be too short to tuck properly, and I hate the untucked look. Bit of extra length to keep it in place is ideal.

And as I said, in Japan, socks aren't underwear, they are outerwear. People take their shoes off every time they go indoors (offices, restaurants, school, etc) so socks are on display all day for everyone to see! Dirty soled white socks will put a social millstone around the wearers neck for life. People here take their sock choice seriously. Ladies go out wearing strappy heels, but have socks in their bag incase they go indoors.
I think this culture persists in some places that were part of the Japanese Empire too; Korea and Taiwan spring to mind.

And not just in Asia, but surely anywhere, socks are on open display publicly as well, aren't they? When sitting down or ascending/descending stairs and steps (even if you're wearing trousers not shorts), you're giving the people around you a glimpse of your socks. And just like flashing a beautiful woman you've only just been introduced to a suggestive smile, why wouldn't you want to use this opportunity to use your sock choice to telegraph something about your uniqueness?

Surely just a matter of time until some marketing genius invents the 'authentic' 'heritage' artisanal sock for the hipster crowd to obsess over. Then I can start making them in Japan for added 'cool' points.

I always liked those Japanese traditional socks with the split toe. Like mittens for feet.

The thing about socks that see a lot of wear without shoes is that the soles wear out faster. Is the concept of 'slipper socks' a poppular one over there?

I never wear shoes inside my home or most people's homes.

I would love to find socks that wear well but don't cost prices that take the piss out of being a consumer.

The most expensive socks I have are my kilt hose, and I'm quite precious about those because they are mostly wool, so vulnerable to mothing. I don't regard socks as quite as semi-disposable as underwear, but I do like them to last. Experience to date suggests that once you get above the very cheapest options, there's little to separate the more expensive socks quality wise from more run of the mill. Biggest difference is boot socks - which outside of engineer boots I don't find I have a huge call for (thick socks are a nightmare with decent fitting penny loafers, for instance).

 

[Big J]

@Edward, good question!
(Some may find this TLDR, by all means feel free to skip).

I do wear padded sole slipper socks at home in winter because of cold wooden floors. But mine are from the US. Only old people wear anything like this in Japan lol.
Everybody wears nice socks, and anywhere you are expected to take your shoes off, there are open toed slippers provided, with separate slippers for the rest room.

The socks where the big toe is separate like mittens are called tabi.
The 'real' traditional (as far as anything is every really traditional) ones are made from the same kind of white cotton as your dress shirt, cut according to a pattern, stitched together and fasten with a button or metal hook and loop like an A-2 throat latch.
Outside of wedding photos, you will almost never see them. It used to be that older ladies going for tea ceremony or flower arranging classes would wear them with the whole kimono get-up, but people just can't afford to buy new car money kimono anymore, so you can do sado and ikebana in a t-shirt and jeans now.

I suspect that what has caught your attention (and understandably so) are the relatively 'modern' iteration of the tabi sock. Made in black or white, from the same kind of fabric as any other modern sock, but maintaining the separated big toe. These are worn with canvas split toed boots by construction workers who used to need the dexterity these boots offered when scrambling around construction sites on bamboo scaffolding.
You could see such scaffolding even 20 years ago, but these days it's mostly steel, and whilst some construction workers still wear these split toed boots and socks, the vast majority wear modern steel toed safety boots.

And that brings us to the reason why I would never ever wear these socks.
Without wishing to get into politics, since the end of the war Japan has been ruled by a triumvirate of one rightwing political party, the construction industry, and organized crime (for more details, I recommend Van Wolferen; The Enigma of Japanese Power). It's a zombie system proving the adage that 'there's a lot of ruin in an empire' to be correct, but I digress.

Because of above stated relationships, these boots and socks are inexorably linked to the extreme (and extremely violent) rightwing. These boots are worn (for example) along with kamikaze inspired uniforms by all manner of anti-social groups.

Even 'normal' Japanese people think that people who wear these (whilst not actually on a construction site!) are weird and bad. For a foreigner to wear them would be like a person of color dressing up as a clan member.

However, given the same economic malaise and shrinking population that makes kimono sales plummet, the market for rightwing group 'uniforms' has also shrunk, and 'clever' tabi sock manufacturers have worked out that if they make larger sizes, foreigners will buy them.
It's kind of like Green Tea Kit-Kats; foreigners understand this familiar object, but it has a Japanese 'twist'.

You should be ok wearing them in the U.K.

 

[SimonR]

Just received my Whitesville T shirts and TBH was disappointed in the fit and fabric

Ordered XXL as I'm a 44/45 chest and whilst the chest fitted OK the arms actually had fabric bunched up in the pit area ... not a good look.

Fabric weight wasn't as good as the Dickies Workwear I'm used to but did like the fact there were no side seams

Also the stiching contrast colour was odd ... certainly an aquired taste

So they are on the way back - def not worth the cost to me

 

[Monitor]

@Edward, good question!
(Some may find this TLDR, by all means feel free to skip).

I do wear padded sole slipper socks at home in winter because of cold wooden floors. But mine are from the US. Only old people wear anything like this in Japan lol.
Everybody wears nice socks, and anywhere you are expected to take your shoes off, there are open toed slippers provided, with separate slippers for the rest room.

The socks where the big toe is separate like mittens are called tabi.
The 'real' traditional (as far as anything is every really traditional) ones are made from the same kind of white cotton as your dress shirt, cut according to a pattern, stitched together and fasten with a button or metal hook and loop like an A-2 throat latch.
Outside of wedding photos, you will almost never see them. It used to be that older ladies going for tea ceremony or flower arranging classes would wear them with the whole kimono get-up, but people just can't afford to buy new car money kimono anymore, so you can do sado and ikebana in a t-shirt and jeans now.

I suspect that what has caught your attention (and understandably so) are the relatively 'modern' iteration of the tabi sock. Made in black or white, from the same kind of fabric as any other modern sock, but maintaining the separated big toe. These are worn with canvas split toed boots by construction workers who used to need the dexterity these boots offered when scrambling around construction sites on bamboo scaffolding.
You could see such scaffolding even 20 years ago, but these days it's mostly steel, and whilst some construction workers still wear these split toed boots and socks, the vast majority wear modern steel toed safety boots.

And that brings us to the reason why I would never ever wear these socks.
Without wishing to get into politics, since the end of the war Japan has been ruled by a triumvirate of one rightwing political party, the construction industry, and organized crime (for more details, I recommend Van Wolferen; The Enigma of Japanese Power). It's a zombie system proving the adage that 'there's a lot of ruin in an empire' to be correct, but I digress.

Because of above stated relationships, these boots and socks are inexorably linked to the extreme (and extremely violent) rightwing. These boots are worn (for example) along with kamikaze inspired uniforms by all manner of anti-social groups.

Even 'normal' Japanese people think that people who wear these (whilst not actually on a construction site!) are weird and bad. For a foreigner to wear them would be like a person of color dressing up as a clan member.

However, given the same economic malaise and shrinking population that makes kimono sales plummet, the market for rightwing group 'uniforms' has also shrunk, and 'clever' tabi sock manufacturers have worked out that if they make larger sizes, foreigners will buy them.
It's kind of like Green Tea Kit-Kats; foreigners understand this familiar object, but it has a Japanese 'twist'.

You should be ok wearing them in the U.K.

And once again, thanks you for another brilliant insight. Each time you post something about Japan, I discover that I am more interested in it than I care to admit, though I can't even figure out what is it exactly that I find so fascinating. Certainly not anime. In any case, had no clue about any of that stuff!

 

[Davidm]

Mister Freedom are the best. Somehow i got my first like 5 years ago and it's still alive! Bought 4 more in same color because it's insane =)

 

[Grayland]

I hate to admit this, but I just recieved my Iron Heart 11 oz tee shirt. It's an incredible piece - basically a short sleeved sweat shirt. I doubt I'll ever spend $160 on a tee shirt again, but I had to check out the quality.

 

[Retromoto]

I wear one brand of T-Shirt, in both Short Sleeve and Long Sleeve, it is the Bayside item, built in the USA. I find they last, are correctly sized, look great and are very fairly priced. I also wear their low crown, ball caps, in several colors. They last forever, fit well and once again, are made in the USA, works for me.