Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[PrettySquareGal]

Exactly. Now instead of 10 people or 30 people coming into my garden, I might have 300 or more. And given the fact that they've probably not eaten in a while because of the lack of gardens, they are going to be much more aggressive and desperate. If they don't succeed here they might not get fed at all, so the stakes are much higher for them. In fact, rather than just stealing, they might purposefully kill to take, because it is such a limited resource.

Again, I don't think that will happen, but if it did, there are going to far more people who are far more desperate.

jamespowers is suggesting that you can exercise your right to bear arms so that you don't have to depend upon the kindness of starved neighbors and can instead defend your property.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Talk of doomsday and people looting neighbors who have what they need reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode "The Shelter."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734676/

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Or hunt for game if you are so inclined, and own a good rifle.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Or hunt for game if you are so inclined, and own a good rifle.

That's right!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The US credit rating has been downgraded from AAA to AA+ by S & P.

 

[Lady Day]

By way of example, my girlfriend is a big fan of the TV show House Hunters. I know that it is only entertainment, but it makes me so angry that I've had to stop watching it with her. Many segments feature couples who are only in their mid twenties, and perhaps just out of college, trying to decide which house to buy among three choices...all of which cost more than $400,000! Usually, what turns their final decision is some fundamental design element like whether the house has granite counter tops and hardwood floors. What the...?!?!?!? Other than Bill Gates, what twenty-five year old, just out of school, commands that kind of income? And why didn't I think of doing what ever he or she's into?

I think a larger point is being missed on this. A lot of people can't afford a 'starter' home anymore, and most young professional couples I know get a mid range home and their parents borrow on their own home's equity to help with a DP. That's how a lot of my friends did it. They bought a new townhouse because mostly everything in it had a 10-20 year warranty. That's pretty freakin' good. That way a wealth can be created that you can't get from the money pit of renting.

I don't think young people are as entitled as everyone thinks they are. Perhaps an entitlement of opportunity, but most I know, myself included, understand that you have to work your butt off to get there. What frustrates a lot of people who don't have the advantages of the paragraph I described above, is seeing and hearing how we are being lumped in with them as having a level playing field. There are two groups of 'entitled' here. The lumping together is what skews this argument.

LD

 

[Bluebird Marsha]

I think some of the shows on TV serve in the same way that the gossip columns of the 20's-50's did. They showcase the behavior of the young, wealthy, terminally stupid (pick two!), and display it for the rest of us to go tsk*tsk*tsk over. Alas I remember the one time I talked to a mortgage company. It was in pre-real estate meltdown Ft. Lauderdale. I admittedly had a crappy credit rating at the time, which was I wondered why he even called me after pulling my credit report. He tried to convince me that a variable loan was a really great idea! And surely my folks could help with the down payment. I kept that conversation short, but I'm quite sure that a bunch of people I know went for that sort of deal. I suspect that quite a few people on TV pull the same deal, and/or had family help in buying.

I know plenty of young people who are skimping to pull together a down payment. It's the bad examples who make for fun TV. No one ever got onto House Hunters by looking for an $75,000 home in Tennessee.

And are we heading for a depression? I don't think that is the case, but a recession- possibly. And I've been thinking for some time that the extra land around my apartment complex would make a great garden. The place used to be farmland, so maybe the soil isn't too bad? We grow veggies, which lures in Bambi- who then becomes venison!

 

[sheeplady]

jamespowers is suggesting that you can exercise your right to bear arms so that you don't have to depend upon the kindness of starved neighbors and can instead defend your property.

Oh, I understand that. What I am getting at is if it gets that bad, it won't be about throwing a few shots into the air to scare away people. There is going to be a lot of bloodshed. Hungry people (and I am talking about real hunger) aren't really afraid of much.

It's just not the rosy picture of those with skills will survive, it's really those with a lack of regard for other people's lives that will survive (at least in the short term) in such a scenario. I don't think there are many who could kill a starving child, but that is what you would have to do, because there will be far too many starving children for you to feed- you can't take your whole neighborhood in.

Again, I don't think it will get that severe. But that is the extreme.

 

[Warden]

The US credit rating has been downgraded from AAA to AA+ by S & P.

I was listening to the BBC World Service about China scolding the US over its "addiction to debt".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14430598

 

[jamespowers]

Or hunt for game if you are so inclined, and own a good rifle.

A good idea as well. There sure are enough squirrels and racoons around here!:eusa_doh:
I'll have to call AtomicEraTom for a couple of recipes.

 

[jamespowers]

Oh and the market keeps going down and down. If there are any of you out there with stocl portfolios, it is time to set sell trade triggers in case of further drops so that your principle and profits are not compromised.:eeek::eusa_doh:

 

[Atticus Finch]

At the risk of sounding terribly saccharin, let me say...

If there is a silver lining to all that has happened in the last two weeks it is that we now know the true nature of our most pressing economic problem. Without doubt, debt is the monster now banging on our door. Left alone, it will destroy us.

My grandfather used to say that a problem, well defined, is half solved. Well, we can now see the problem. It is well defined and looming before us. But there is no reason that we can't put aside our differences and begin pulling together address it. No matter who occupies our various positions of leadership....be he Congressman or Senator or President; be he Democrat, Republican or Whig...everyone, including every humble citizen, needs to understand that we have to immediately begin a significant reduction in spending or we have to enact a significant tax increase or we have to begin a combination of the two. There really is no painless solution and we are all going to have to do our share.

I am most hopeful that this week's events will turn out to be like the events of December 7, 1942. I hope we will all see…and for perhaps for the first time actually appreciate…the magnitude of the enemy that faces us. And just like in the early days of 1943, I hope we can lay partisan politics aside and all come together for a common purpose. I hope that tomorrow morning we take our first steps on the long road to defeating this common enemy...an enemy that is as potentially destructive to our way of life as were the Axis Nations in 1942.

Just my 2 cents.

AF

 

[jamespowers]

At the risk of sounding terribly saccharin, let me say...

If there is a silver lining to all that has happened in the last two weeks it is that we now know the true nature of our most pressing economic problem. Without doubt, debt is the monster now banging on our door. Left alone, it will destroy us.

My grandfather used to say that a problem, well defined, is half solved. Well, we can now see the problem. It is well defined and looming before us. But there is no reason that we can't put aside our differences and begin pulling together address it. No matter who occupies our various positions of leadership....be he Congressman or Senator or President; be he Democrat, Republican or Whig...everyone, including every humble citizen, needs to understand that we have to immediately begin a significant reduction in spending or we have to enact a significant tax increase or we have to begin a combination of the two. There really is no painless solution and we are all going to have to do our share.

I am most hopeful that this week's events will turn out to be like the events of December 7, 1942. I hope we will all see…and for perhaps for the first time actually appreciate…the magnitude of the enemy that faces us. And just like in the early days of 1943, I hope we can lay partisan politics aside and all come together for a common purpose. I hope that tomorrow morning we take our first steps on the long road to defeating this common enemy...an enemy that is as potentially destructive to our way of life as were the Axis Nations in 1942.

Just my 2 cents.

AF

We have known this enemy (DEBT) for decades now. I have significant concerns as to what is different now than it has been through that whole period. There is indeed a much more focused attitude toward the problem but I see more finger pointing than anything else.
It has gotten bad enough that even Berkshire Hathaway is getting a haircut now. Perhaps it might push harder with the whole FEAR thing being pushed to its limits. Bank of America is also experiencing a fair freefall in its stock price. We have lost over $1 trillion in stock market value recently. There is certainly some sign as to this being fairly bad.

 

[Atticus Finch]

We have known this enemy (DEBT) for decades now.

True. People who have paid attention to the economic winds have known about it for decades. Until recently, though, the average person has remained blissfully unaware of it. I think the reason is due to a phenomena economists call "rational ignorance". Even today, I’ll bet most people don’t know the difference between the “budget deficit” and the “national debt”.

Of course, what has caused the problem to move to the forefront of our current national agenda is how quickly our national debt has increased (in relationship to our GDP) during the last three decades. And the fact that it is now beginning to affect everyone in our economy in a very visible and negative way.

AF

 

[jamespowers]

True. People who have paid attention to the economic winds have known about it for decades. Until recently, though, the average person has remained blissfully unaware of it. I think the reason is due to a phenomena economists call "rational ignorance". Even today, I’ll bet most people don’t know the difference between the “budget deficit” and the “national debt”.

Of course, what has caused the problem to move to the forefront of our current national agenda is how quickly our national debt has increased (in relationship to our GDP) during the last three decades. And the fact that it is now beginning to affect everyone in our economy in a very visible and negative way.

AF

Like the Dow being down 502 points now?:eusa_doh::eeek:

 

[Undertow]

A good idea as well. There sure are enough squirrels and racoons around here!:eusa_doh:
I'll have to call AtomicEraTom for a couple of recipes.

They'll be gone before long. And in this day and age, you'd probably get nabbed for hunting without a permit and lose your rifle.

I've already recruited a friend and we've discussed using my Ruger 10/22 and Winchester 410 to get rodents, should the need arise. But it will have to be quick and quiet. He has kids, and my sister has kids, so I figure if times get hard enough, one of them will need food and I may as well offer my services up.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Like the Dow being down 502 points now?:eusa_doh::eeek:

Absolutely. But that sort of thing most directly affects old poots like me who are nearing retirement. Younger folks will feel the effect more directly when they try to get a loan for their home or car (or whatever) and find that credit is much less easily obtainable than before..and could soon be almost impossible to come by.

AF

 

[Pompidou]

Absolutely. But that sort of thing most directly affects old poots like me who are nearing retirement. Younger folks will feel the effect more directly when they try to get a loan for their home or car (or whatever) and find that credit is much less easily obtainable than before..and could soon be almost impossible to come by.

AF

Fortunately, or not, depending on how you look at it, most young people have been convinced they'll be working till the day they die, and have resigned to depending 100% on their own savings (if they have the foresight and willpower - the latter being the hard part) when the time comes that most people retire and enjoy their golden years.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Fortunately, or not, depending on how you look at it, most young people have been convinced they'll be working till the day they die, and have resigned to depending 100% on their own savings (if they have the foresight and willpower - the latter being the hard part) when the time comes that most people retire and enjoy their golden years.

Yep. Sad to say, many of the young professionals I know never ask how much. They just want to know how much per month.

AF

 

[Pompidou]

Yep. Sad to say, many of the young professionals I know never ask how much. They just want to know how much per month.

AF

I, personally can't stand any sort of debt. I don't like playing the credit score game. They actually encourage you to take out a credit card and keep the ratio of payments to debt just so to get that esteemed top score. Mine's only 730, all three bureaus agree, largely because I won't use a credit card. I think a house, car and business are the only three loans I hope to take for the rest of my life. You'd think the best credit of all would be not needing it. Somehow, borrowing all the time puts you in a stronger financial position than saving and buying outright.