Do any of you guys follow any type of hat etiquette?

[mikepara]

Quite a few of us on here have already taken the Military route and thankfully mostly came through it intact. Good luck young man and have a great time despite any hardships that will come your way, and there will be many, not least your basic training! Make the most of it because when you are an old veteran like me, you'll most likely look back on your Service fondly and reminisce about the great friends you made and the great places you went and even the great battles you fought. I'd do it all again. I'm British but here's a Hoorah! Airborne! Mike

You are correct, David! Not many here wish to take the military route, but I am happy to do whatever this great nation asks of me.

Hey Mystic! The Kevlar comes towards the end of August! Counting down the days! How have you been?

 

[Zombie_61]

The rules were different for ladies; you need not remove your hat anywhere.

Historically this was true for the simple reason that ladies' hats were generally more "involved" than men's hats--adorned with bows, ribbons, flowers, etc.--and often required the use of hat pins to be held in place. As I understand it this rule has since been amended to reflect the changing times, and women wearing something as simple as a baseball cap are now required to follow the same rules of hat etiquette as men.

...When I am wearing a hat out on the town, I absolutely refuse to put either my vintage hats or my $100+ modern manufactured hats on the floor. If there is no safe place to put my hat, I will wear it on my head, just keeping with the expectation set by the society in which I live...There is no universal, fixed for all time etiquette. Personally, I like the new ones...including the new " norm" that says if I want to be an "oddball" and wear a fedora around while most everyone else doesn't, then by all means do so.

I concur with these statements. Quite often manners and etiquette are contrary to common sense, and in such cases I'm in favor of following common sense as long as doing so doesn't actually harm anyone. If I have a choice between potentially ruining an expensive hat or offending someone by wearing it when I shouldn't according to the rules of hat etiquette, someone's going to be offended. Besides, if I'm going to be perceived as an "oddball" for wearing a hat, I may as well be perceived as an oddball for wearing it at the dinner table.

...Since men's hat wearing has declined significantly in the last 50-60 years or so, most public places do not supply readily hat stands or hooks for hats like they did in the old days...

Even if they did, these days I wouldn't leave an expensive hat hanging on a stand or hook where anyone with "sticky fingers" could walk off with it. If an establishment had a hat and coat check counter like they did decades ago in which my hat would be more secure, fine. But leave it hanging where the odds would be 50/50 that it would still be there when I went to retrieve it? I don't think so. I don't particularly like thinking that way, but I have to be realistic about modern times and the fact that (in my experience) some people have no respect for other peoples' property.

 

[splintercellsz]

Hey, Justin...Thanks for asking. I'm still getting used to living with some new limitations.
Leave a comment on the lounge when you switch hats. Got any orders or indication of where you'll be doing Basic Training or whatever the new name for it might be?

If I don't catch you before then....Good Luck, Soldier!!

I will most definately be in touch as much as possible here! I will be going to Ft. Benning for Basic and AIT.

Quite a few of us on here have already taken the Military route and thankfully mostly came through it intact. Good luck young man and have a great time despite any hardships that will come your way, and there will be many, not least your basic training! Make the most of it because when you are an old veteran like me, you'll most likely look back on your Service fondly and reminisce about the great friends you made and the great places you went and even the great battles you fought. I'd do it all again. I'm British but here's a Hoorah! Airborne! Mike

Regarding my previous comment about "Not many here go the military route", I meant that not many people here in Reno that are my age choose the route, not fellow FLers! I am pretty excited about starting my life. The closer it comes, the faster the days go!

 

[Rick Blaine]

Yes

Remove your hat when under any roof that is not a public place (e.g.- in an airport or train station, fast-food joint, bank, mall, post office, ballpark, office lobby, elevator-leave it on).

In private homes, offices, at social affairs or fine dining- off it comes.
Hats also come off during the National Anthem (of any country), display of the flag, recitation of the pledge of allegiance, passing of a funeral, do rise & remove a hat when a lady, or the elderly enter and leave, the room, in any church, temple or mosque, shrine, alter or monastery.
Remove it in the presence of any authority, from Deputy to Mayor to Dignitary to President, as a demonstration of respect, deference and humility.
Hats are tipped as greeting or recognition, in parting, or to thank or to acknowledge thanks of a kindness, service or assistance, especially to a lady.
It is also, apparently, the very height of rudeness to allow the hat's liner to be seen. Worse than panty lines, evidently.


Kinda a PIA, but there you have it, in part, my .o2

 

[HamilcarBarca3]

Wow, a lot has happened here since last night.

HamilcarBarca3, did your question get answered?

I think I'm just gonna wear my hat.

Yes sir

I enjoyed reading all the responses, it's cool to learn how others handle their hats. But jlee and others are saying holds true, without anyplace to store my hat I often just leave it at home if I'm going to be shopping or inside a building for a long time. Most of the time I'm just carrying it in my hand which probably makes me look silly [huh]

splintercellsz, I'd like to wish you luck, man. I went to basic at Ft. Benning and did my AIT at Ft. Sill. Definitely an experience.

 

[Mystic]

I will most definately be in touch as much as possible here! I will be going to Ft. Benning for Basic and AIT.

Ft. Benning in August ......I was inducted 22 Aug 68.....Basic, Sand Hill....Ft. Benning....HOT AS H_LL!! Hopefully the Army will have installed some air-conditioning by now.

 

[splintercellsz]

Once can hope, eh? I currently live w/o Air conditioning in the dry 104+ temps here, but the humidity will be something to experience...

 

[fashion frank]

I remove my hat whilst in church, while the national anthem plays, and whilst in someone else's home. I do not take it off "indoors," at all times because, "indoors," includes places like supermarkets or the interiors of gas stations.

Restaurants are somewhat dependent on the place. I would not, for example, remove my hat whilst entering taco bell or Starbucks. I would however remove it for any nice sit-down type restaurant.

This is what I was talking about in an eariler post about good manners and more importantly common sence !

You just have to know intuitively when to "doff your cap " and when not to and this poster summed it up nicely.

As far as the excuse of " I can't find a place to put my hat" be it costly or thrifted ,I always manage to and I would never just use that as an excuse to wear my hat while eating ( which I also find uncomfortable to do if nothing else).

I know that because hats are pretty much out of vouge ,that for example when you go out to dine, there are no
longer "hat check girls " and or hat and cloak rooms like there used to be , and that was how the whole issue of where to
put my hat when eating or being out was resolved ,but as I just stated that still does not stop me from wearing a hat
when I go out and I just adjust accordingly to the situation at hand .

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Florida_Marlin]

Common sense dictates that a hat is to be placed on the head. There is nothing intuitive about taking a hat off to eat, since it doesn't cover my mouth. Not wanting to put my hat on the floor is not an"excuse". An "excuse" implies that there is something for which I need to be excused. I don't. There is no common sense, intuition, or current social rules that dictate I have to remove my hat when I eat. Therefore, if I have no good place to put it, I won't.

One of the reasons " rules" or " norms" change is because they are not intuitive or based on common sense. Instead, they are often based on arbitrary practices that are valued by the larger portion of a society at any particular time. Arbitrary rules don't last. Never will.

I wear hats all the time,all over. If I had to doff my hat in every situation required by the arbitrary " rules", I wouldn't bother to wear one. It would be way too much trouble.

 

[suitedcboy]

I'm still loving this thread.

I wonder if Hamilcarbaca3 has gotten his answer or if he is listing his hats on Ebay as we speak?

Next question: What is turban etiquette? Do you unroll when you eat? Partially unroll when you meet a lady on the street?
This could really be an issue with a turban.

 

[HudsonHawk]

There is no common sense, intuition, or current social rules that dictate I have to remove my hat when I eat. Therefore, if I have no good place to put it, I won't.

There are no "rules" of anything. There is etiquette and good manners. Those still exist for hat wearers, even if many are unaware or chose to ignore them. Just because you don't think anyone expects you to practice good manners doesn't mean you aren't being rude.

 

[Big Man]

There are no "rules" of anything. There is etiquette and good manners. Those still exist for hat wearers, even if many are unaware or chose to ignore them. Just because you don't think anyone expects you to practice good manners doesn't mean you aren't being rude.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[jlee562]

The existence of new mores does not equate to a lack of etiquette simply because they do not conform to old mores.

Likewise, although new mores exist, one need not be compelled to adopt them should s/he so choose, but it does mean that said individual cannot expect society to have the same expectations.

Practice hat etiquette if it suits you. But don't assume people are deliberately being rude if they don't. As evidenced by all in this thread who professed to breaking strict hat etiquette, nobody had expressed a desire or willingness to inflict ill will upon others.

 

[HudsonHawk]

The existence of new mores does not equate to a lack of etiquette simply because they do not conform to old mores.

And just because you choose to not practice it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[jlee562]

And just because you choose to not practice it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just because it exists for you does not mean it holds any salience in society.

Also, that you believe my position is that hat etiquette or etiquette at large "doesn't exist" indicates that you still haven't actually grasped my argument and are still merely projecting your grievances onto me.

 

[Florida_Marlin]

When I got out to eat, I'm never rude,and I always practice good manners. It's just that your ideas of rudeness and good manners are no longer generally accepted, and it's obvious by simple observation. You cannot accept the obvious, so you resort to calling people rude and ill mannered, which in our current society, is considered rude and ill mannered. How absurd.

There are no "rules" of anything. There is etiquette and good manners. Those still exist for hat wearers, even if many are unaware or chose to ignore them. Just because you don't think anyone expects you to practice good manners doesn't mean you aren't being rude.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Also, that you believe my position is that hat etiquette or etiquette at large "doesn't exist" indicates that you still haven't actually grasped my argument and are still merely projecting your grievances onto me.

You misunderstand my objection. It's not that I don't grasp it, it's that it's logically flawed. You've contended that it's the "new etiquette" and as such no one is offended, and no one is offense because it's the new etiquette. It's circular logic. Furthermore, you are oblivious to the purpose of good manners in the first place.

 

[RBH]

Enough

 

[jlee562]

You misunderstand my objection. It's not that I don't grasp it, it's that it's logically flawed. You've contended that it's the "new etiquette" and as such no one is offended, and no one is offense because it's the new etiquette. It's circular logic. Furthermore, you are oblivious to the purpose of good manners in the first place.

Not quite, good sir.

I contend that etiquette and social mores are socially constructed. That is, they are based on shared expectations. I contend further that actions have no intrinsic meaning, only that which we ascribe to them. I have demonstrated how these concepts are at play in society.

If one accepts these things as true, the one who is actually practicing circular logic is you, sir. Now, again, you don't have to necessarily agree that both those concepts are true, but thus far, nobody has attempted to disprove either one. Because etiquette relies on shared expectations, if the majority does not find something rude, it's not considered rude within that society. That doesn't mean that we, as individuals, cannot object to what society believes. For myself, I happen to to have a much wider conception of "personal space" than society at large. Somebody might offend my personal sensibilities by coming what I would judge to be "too close" to my person, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take it personally. Rather, I understand that that person's conception of "personal space" is different than my own. I became acutely aware of this fact while traveling through China, and especially Hong Kong, where sheer population density erodes almost all sense of "personal space."

I also assert that it is a given that social mores change over time. I think this is obviously true, given the variance in human cultures around the world.

So, if it is true that:
1) actions have no intrinsic meaning
2) etiquette is based on shared expectations
3) social mores change over time

Then yes, actually my conclusion is quite logical, and not circular in any way. Because the act of not removing one's hat is only the act of not removing one's hat. If nobody is offended by non-removal of hats, that action (or lack thereof with hat doffing) is not offensive. That social more erode over time to the point where most people do not find it rude to not doff their hat to greet someone.

Your argument asserts that an action is inherently rude, even if the target of said action isn't offended. This is the circular logic: it's rude because it violates hat etiquette.

 

[g.durand]

Enough

Thank you Rusty.