Detachable collars

[thaduke]

Detachable Collars: What's the Secret?

I've just purchased a collarless shirt and detachable collar (round-tips, fold-over style) from the Vintage Shirt Company. The problem I'm having is that getting the tie into the collar is very difficult, because the collar is so stiff! I find that I have to stuff it up into the fold, and you have to pull rather hard to get the 'balance' right before you tie the knot.

So, does anyone have any secrets? Is there a special way to put the tie on with a detachable, fold-over collar?

 

[manton]

You will notice on collars of that style, in vintage pics, that the tie is often not pulled up into the collar. There is a substantial gap between the top of the knot and the top of the collar, and you can see a lot of collar band. I assume this stems from the same problem you are having.

Part of me suspects that the cutaway originated as a way for men to pull their ties up. I have no evidence for that, however.

 

[Fletch]

I always tried to guesstimate how much tie I'd need on each side, then pick the tie up at what would be the mid-back-of-neck point and tuck that bit up into the collar back, right over the back button. Then I'd start to pull the rest into the collar, back and forth as usual.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Fletch's technique is correct. Before putting the collar on, you have to slip the (untied) tie into the collar's fold. (You really should stretch the collar flat while doing this.) Then, attach the collar to your shirt (which you're already wearing, yes?), and tie the necktie.

.

 

[Alan Eardley]

The tie problem...

... use a clip-on tie, like a Snapper!

Alan

 

[Stiff Collared]

... use a clip-on tie, like a Snapper!

Clip on ties do not work with detachable Collars. If you are going to make the effort to put on a Stiff Collar then it is worth taking the trouble to learn how tie a proper tie. Practice makes perfect!

 

[Dinerman]

I do believe he was joking.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Clip-on ties do not work with detachable Collars.

There is one gravity-defying exception:

 

[Alan Eardley]

Clip on ties

... use a clip-on tie, like a Snapper!

Clip on ties do not work with detachable Collars. If you are going to make the effort to put on a Stiff Collar then it is worth taking the trouble to learn how tie a proper tie. Practice makes perfect!

On the contrary, the type of tie to which I refer only works with detachable collars. The Snapper type was patented in the nineteen twenties. They have a built in front stud which goes through the collar and shirt in the normal manner and then clips into the knot of the tie which is, of course, permanently tied. The advantage is that a 1920s style vertical collar is not deformed by the neck loop and the tie knot is fashionably smaller than can be achieved with a conventional tie. They were very popular in the UK and I guess that many can be seen in period photographs. I think they have a sort of rarity and interest value. I wouldn't assume that anyone wearing one couldn't manage a conventional tie.

Alan

 

[Prof Branestawm]

I have been thinking about buying a few shirts with seperate (soft) collars, and thought I'd ask here for advice. Any helpful hints? I'd especially like to know about the pros and cons of different types of collar studs.

I have also been contemplating a stiff fronted, or boiled front, evening shirt with detachable (definately not soft) collar for wearing with formal evening dress. Again, any advice? Also, does anyone know where I might find these for sale in Britain at a price which approaches being reasonable? The vintage shirt company carries them, but £66+VAT is a bit steep.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I have been thinking about buying a few shirts with seperate (soft) collars, and thought I'd ask here for advice. Any helpful hints? I'd especially like to know about the pros and cons of different types of collar studs.

I have also been contemplating a stiff fronted, or boiled front, evening shirt with detachable (definately not soft) collar for wearing with formal evening dress. Again, any advice? Also, does anyone know where I might find these for sale in Britain at a price which approaches being reasonable? The vintage shirt company carries them, but £66+VAT is a bit steep.

The studs with swivel tops are fairly easy to handle and are all I use these days, but many I know swear by the spear-point types, especially for opening the studholes in stiff collars.

For day shirts, I would recommend the legal outfitters first, such as Stanley Ley and Ede and Ravenscroft. Both offer a limited range online but an excellent range in the shops. Both have their main bases in London; if you intend to visit be warned that Ley is shut on a Saturday. T.M. Lewin also has some, although you need to ask for them in the Jermyn Street branch, and I believe Chancery Lane is also shut on Saturdays. Note that Ley's and Ravenscroft both offer two matching soft detachable collars with each shirt to Lewin's one. You might also consider ordering barrister's shirts from the Moville Clothing Company; I have never owned one, but I understand the quality is acceptable and they are cheap; plus they have expanded their range of fabrics significantly. Alternatively I think most of the Jermyn Street retailers do them, with the exception of Hawes & Curtis. New and Lingwood and Harvie and Hudson offer a limited selection online.

Be aware if ordering from Lewin that they have the reputation in some quarters of running half a size small.

As to stiff-fronted shirts, unless you have a positive aversion to it, I would go vintage as I can't offhand think of any retailer who would be able to beat the price you quoted (although possibly able to beat the quality), except on sale.

Anthony.

 

[BellyTank]

You should do some searching on this forum.
There is a fair bit of info.

The Vintage Shirt Company's products are expensive and quite disappointing at the price.

B
T

 

[Prof Branestawm]

Anthony, thanks for the advice, especially re: studs.

The Moville Clothing Company price range certainly seems to be preferable to that of the London legal outfitters (of which Stanley Ley seems the most reasonable); it's a shame that their range of pure cotton colours is so small, and that I have no idea of the quality.

I think I may have a hunt around vintage places for the stiff-fronted one next time I'm in London.

Bellytank, thanks for the warning about the vintage shirt company.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Anthony, thanks for the advice, especially re: studs.

The Moville Clothing Company price range certainly seems to be preferable to that of the London legal outfitters (of which Stanley Ley seems the most reasonable); it's a shame that their range of pure cotton colours is so small, and that I have no idea of the quality.

I think I may have a hunt around vintage places for the stiff-fronted one next time I'm in London.

Bellytank, thanks for the warning about the vintage shirt company.

One thing to bear in mind regarding the legal outfitters is that they tend to have good sales; e.g. Stanley Ley regularly offers three shorts for £99, which is a substantially more attractive offer. I am lucky in that I have an arrangement with T.M. Lewin whereby I can use my corporate discount code to order shirts for £27 each from their Chancery Lane branch and then have them shipped out to me via the Mail Order section at no more than the normal delivery cost.

 

[Drew B]

Can someone help me date these?

I was in my local junk store the other day (teehee the guy there knows me now) anyway i came across these collars and I was hoping some one here could help identify the date of origin. Sorry for the dodgy photos, I was late for work.

all of them

nu-web? detail

radiac? detail

radiac collar, by far the neatest and cleanest one.

 

[Scott B]

Definitely don't come on too strong...

make sure you compliment them a bit about how nice they look, take them out for drinks; move slow, if it's meant to be, it will happen...

Sorry, I have no idea, but I'd guess from the thirties or later?

www.uaf.edu/theatre/students/resumes/res/collars/images/sears27.jpeg

 

[Drew B]

heheh i was going to put somewhere a thread titles can you help me date these and then a photo of two gorgeous girls but i decided against it.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I would guess somewhere in the range 1930s-1950s. A little research suggests that the Radiac name may have been dropped around 1964, when the parent firm was merged with Tootal; this may help give a "not later than" date.