Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

[deadlyhandsome]

The font on "Tornado" is kind of 70s feeling. I remember seeing a thread somewhere about the various fonts used for Stetson as well, probably lost to the photobucket purge though. Not a bad looking hat from the inside, what is it like on your head?

It’s a shabby little hat, but it’s not mine so no headshots. I was more interested in it for the liner and the “crafted edge” brim treatment.


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[Roadopen]

What about a Royal De Luxe Stetson form the 50's without a liner?

Thanks,
Roadopen

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This was a new liner to me. Forgive me if it was included earlier; I don’t remember seeing it. The hat is not mine.

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[Frunobulax]

This was a new liner to me. Forgive me if it was included earlier; I don’t remember seeing it. The hat is not mine.

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There's a Stephen L. Stetson thread. He was John B's nephew, and that "neve connected in any way" was the result of a legal settlement.


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[deadlyhandsome]

There's a Stephen L. Stetson thread. He was John B's nephew, and that "neve connected in any way" was the result of a legal settlement.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

As soon as I read your post a vague memory was stirred. I’m too young to be so forgetful. Thanks.


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[Frunobulax]

As soon as I read your post a vague memory was stirred. I’m too young to be so forgetful. Thanks.


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I had one for a while. Very nice hat, but too stingy, so I unloaded it on the Bay.


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[Rmccamey]

Any help with dating this one? There is no size tag but the production tag says 7. The liner looks typical of the 60's perhaps? This is a deep blue Stetson Fifteen with Mode Edge,
a 2 inch brim and a 2 1/4 ribbon with trolley and back bow.

 

[carouselvic]

Mid 50’s

 

[Frunobulax]

^^^What he said. The 3X imprint on the sweat changed from round to rectangular sometime around 1960.

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[Rmccamey]

Good to know. Thank you both for the info.

Mid 50’s

^^^What he said. The 3X imprint on the sweat changed from round to rectangular sometime around 1960.

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[carouselvic]

^^^What he said. The 3X imprint on the sweat changed from round to rectangular sometime around 1960.

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

The rectangular 3X goes back as far as 1895 and renewed several times in the next century.

 

[Frunobulax]

The rectangular 3X goes back as far as 1895 and renewed several times in the next century.

Thanks, Vic. I had associated it with the newer hats only.

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[Just Daniel]

I’ll take a stab at this, first with a question: when did the Royal Stetson first appear in ads?

Looking at the red size tag, it is the single block type that lasted to the 50s, except this one looks longer and narrower than average. I have seen that narrow type on several hats with star-crests on both the liner and sweat. I believe size tags appear on hats with vita felt stamps, indicating to me the thicker versions came about in the early forties. I believe this longer, thinner red tags with one box are possibly from the later 30s.

The date on the inside of your hat would provide some support; I do believe the liner is one of the original Royals. Some corroborating evidence from bigger hat collectors would help for the liner, as well as some early dates from the ad collectors.

Add: From Brad Bowers, message #51 on this thread: “Seems about right. Out of curiosity, I looked up the trademark filing for "Royal Stetson." It states that the first use of the term in commerce was September 12, 1935, so that's some corroborating evidence for that period. Stetson filed pretty fast on the term, on September 25, and received their registration on March 10, 1936.“

That could mean the date on the inside of your hat is accurate for the felt.


Anyone else have ideas? I think the liner deserves a little more digging. I’ll look some more.

All the best,
Daniel

View attachment 134069 View attachment 134070 View attachment 134071 View attachment 134072 View attachment 134073 Greetings All:
Since this threads about IDing Stetsons by lining...i got one for the experts. I put this out once before somewhere to no avail but i’d really really like to know who can tell me what about this hat cause it’s extremely nice and i believe quite old.
It had no sweatband, interesting chalk writing inside and the liner is still partially stitched. I’ve only seen this liner once before somewhere??
So...help old Bo out!! Thanks all.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I’ll take a stab at this, first with a question: when did the Royal Stetson first appear in ads?

Looking at the red size tag, it is the single block type that lasted to the 50s, except this one looks longer and narrower than average. I have seen that narrow type on several hats with star-crests on both the liner and sweat. I believe size tags appear on hats with vita felt stamps, indicating to me the thicker versions came about in the early forties. I believe this longer, thinner red tags with one box are possibly from the later 30s.

The date on the inside of your hat would provide some support; I do believe the liner is one of the original Royals. Some corroborating evidence from bigger hat collectors would help for the liner, as well as some early dates from the ad collectors.

Add: From Brad Bowers, message #51 on this thread: “Seems about right. Out of curiosity, I looked up the trademark filing for "Royal Stetson." It states that the first use of the term in commerce was September 12, 1935, so that's some corroborating evidence for that period. Stetson filed pretty fast on the term, on September 25, and received their registration on March 10, 1936.“

That could mean the date on the inside of your hat is accurate for the felt.


Anyone else have ideas? I think the liner deserves a little more digging. I’ll look some more.

All the best,
Daniel

Thanks Daniel:
That’s great info. I’d kind of given up on IDing this one without the sweatband but i do know the liner is unique.
If i recall correctly i’ve only seen it twice on the lounge.
I believe BobHufford has one and Eric has one. I’ll have to do some more digging.
Thanks again for your help.
Bowen

 

[BobHufford]

Thanks Daniel:
That’s great info. I’d kind of given up on IDing this one without the sweatband but i do know the liner is unique.
If i recall correctly i’ve only seen it twice on the lounge.
I believe BobHufford has one and Eric has one. I’ll have to do some more digging.
Thanks again for your help.
Bowen

Putting these here if it helps...

I’ve not noticed the liner size stamping before.

 

[alanfgag]

I’ll take a stab at this, first with a question: when did the Royal Stetson first appear in ads?

Looking at the red size tag, it is the single block type that lasted to the 50s, except this one looks longer and narrower than average.

The hats above are from the 1940s. The Royal Stetson liner in the 1930s looked like this:

The transition to the narrow profile single field manufacturing label took place in the early 1940s. I have early release Stratoliners (1941-42-43) with this label and also with the earlier variant, the narrow label with three field boxes.

In the late 1930s to early 1940s the gold printed keyhole size label would still be present.

The manilla paper keyhole label followed this. These features (single field red label, manilla keyhole size tag) continued into the 1950s.

Here are some additional threads on dating Stetson hats by manufacturing label and by size tag. Don't read as the bible - we've all learned more along the way. But it's a start.

 

[Just Daniel]

Thanks Alan! That is great information.

Dan

The hats above are from the 1940s. The Royal Stetson liner in the 1930s looked like this:

View attachment 148341

View attachment 148342

The transition to the narrow profile single field manufacturing label took place in the early 1940s. I have early release Stratoliners (1941-42-43) with this label and also with the earlier variant, the narrow label with three field boxes.

View attachment 148343

View attachment 148344

In the late 1930s to early 1940s the gold printed keyhole size label would still be present.

View attachment 148347

The manilla paper keyhole label followed this. These features (single field red label, manilla keyhole size tag) continued into the 1950s.

Here are some additional threads on dating Stetson hats by manufacturing label and by size tag. Don't read as the bible - we've all learned more along the way. But it's a start.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

The hats above are from the 1940s. The Royal Stetson liner in the 1930s looked like this:

View attachment 148341

View attachment 148342

The transition to the narrow profile single field manufacturing label took place in the early 1940s. I have early release Stratoliners (1941-42-43) with this label and also with the earlier variant, the narrow label with three field boxes.

View attachment 148343

View attachment 148344

In the late 1930s to early 1940s the gold printed keyhole size label would still be present.

View attachment 148347

The manilla paper keyhole label followed this. These features (single field red label, manilla keyhole size tag) continued into the 1950s.

Here are some additional threads on dating Stetson hats by manufacturing label and by size tag. Don't read as the bible - we've all learned more along the way. But it's a start.

Thank you very much Alan for pulling that all together. Combining info from several threads over time gets somewhat confusing. I appreciate your expertise.
Bowen

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Putting these here if it helps...

I’ve not noticed the liner size stamping before.

Thanks Bob. That’s the one.

 

[M Hatman]

I’ll take a stab at this, first with a question: when did the Royal Stetson first appear in ads?

Looking at the red size tag, it is the single block type that lasted to the 50s, except this one looks longer and narrower than average. I have seen that narrow type on several hats with star-crests on both the liner and sweat. I believe size tags appear on hats with vita felt stamps, indicating to me the thicker versions came about in the early forties. I believe this longer, thinner red tags with one box are possibly from the later 30s.

The date on the inside of your hat would provide some support; I do believe the liner is one of the original Royals. Some corroborating evidence from bigger hat collectors would help for the liner, as well as some early dates from the ad collectors.

Add: From Brad Bowers, message #51 on this thread: “Seems about right. Out of curiosity, I looked up the trademark filing for "Royal Stetson." It states that the first use of the term in commerce was September 12, 1935, so that's some corroborating evidence for that period. Stetson filed pretty fast on the term, on September 25, and received their registration on March 10, 1936.“

That could mean the date on the inside of your hat is accurate for the felt.


Anyone else have ideas? I think the liner deserves a little more digging. I’ll look some more.

All the best,
Daniel

Here are pictures of the inside of a very early THE Royal Stetson Derby I have. This would date to the earliest use of the name circa 1935, before "Royal Deluxe" entered the picture. At its introduction Stetsons "Royal Stetson" was an upper level hat. Not the lower or mid level it later came to be....If I remember this one was price tagged around 12.00 which was a lot of money in 1935, 1936.

There are soft felts (fedoras) from the same time out there marked exactly like my derby.

Looking at the colored liners being asked about here, I would date them 5 years later right around 1940 or early 40's, right around when "Royal Deluxe" was introduced.
M