Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

[jimmy the lid]

Glad to see there has been some activity on this thread!

Jimmy I have a Royal De Luxe Belmont model, sold at the factory store on April 18 1952 for $12.50. It the same as the liner of yours in post #3 of this thread with the oil silk cover, but my hat has the seam in the back. The leather sweat is 1 7/8 wide.

Great piece of info carouselvic!!! So, it looks like that particular liner was used into the very early 50's. What's even better is knowing that the oil silk liner protector was still there in 1952. I have been trying to figure out when the changeover from oil silk to plastic occurred. I know of a 1954 Stratoliner that had a plastic protector, so it would appear that, by at least 1954 the plastic protector was in use. It's probably hard to draw any bright lines on this, but it seems fair to say that the shift from oil silk to plastic may have taken place in the 1952-1954 time frame.

Thanks for sharing this info, Vic!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[jimmy the lid]

To address some other recent posts --

Levallois -- I would agree with GWD that your Imperial liner is consistent with liners from the 40s. It is very reminiscent of the 1948 Royal DeLuxe logo treatment, but with its own unique filigree (that thin gold outline used in the logo).

Dumbjaw -- your Whippet liner logo is consistent with a 50s liner. What definitely puts your Whippet into the 50s, however, is the fact that your liner protector is plastic.

Unlucky Berman -- yup, that one looks like a 50s liner, alright.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[jimmy the lid]

So, while we're on the topic of 50s liners...

This is a logo from my Royal Stetson Playboy. I do not know the exact date of this lid, but it did come intact with the factory price tag for $10. This means that this lid pre-dates the price change that occurred sometime in the late 50s. This fact, combined with the fact that the liner protector is plastic definitely puts this lid in the 50s. In addition, the imprinting on the sweat is done in black. I am still trying to pin down whether this use of black imprinting can be traced to a particular point in time. I do know of a Stratoliner with black imprinting that definitively dates to 1954. In any event, I think it's fair to say that this is a mid-50s liner:

Here is a liner from an Open Road, also with black imprinting on the sweat. It originally had a plastic liner, which I removed:

In terms of distinguishing 40s from 50s -- note how, on the 50s logos the "Royal Stetson" features a more heavy black script, and lacks the extremely vivid gold of the 40s liners.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[carouselvic]

Playboy

Jimmy I have a Playboy with the same liner as in your first post, but with the seam in the rear. The sweatband is the same as the first post weekender, but with Playboy in stylized print same as the Royal Stetson and in Gold. There is no sign that this hat ever had plastic liner of any kind. The original surround price tag says $10. There is a single stitch around the brim about 1/8" in from the edge. The hat retailed from Raff's in Rochester and is mint, unaltered condition. Hope this can help in someway.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Carouselvic --

The earliest national advertising I have for the Stetson Playboy at $10 is 1945 (I really need to go back and update the Dating Vintage Stetsons by Price thread). Judging by the info on your liner, it sounds like your Playboy may date to somewhere in the 1945 -- 1952 time frame. The Playboy also appears to have had slightly different ribbon widths at different times, which might also play a role in dating your lid.

Also -- any photos would be welcomed. Some pics of that Belmont, in particular, would be great, since the more photos we can post of lids and liners that are tied to a specific date, the more useful this "field guide" will be. (It would also be interesting to take a look at the "Belmont," since it is not a Stetson model you see every day).

Cheers,
JtL

 

[carouselvic]

Belmont

The up welt on this hat is a full 1/2", with four rows of stitches.

 

[carouselvic]

Belmont

Second try

 

[carouselvic]

Playboy

<a href="http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=playboy001qe6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5364/playboy001qe6.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://img604.imageshack.us/content.php?page=blogpost&files=img411/5364/playboy001qe6.jpg" title="QuickPost"><img src="http://imageshack.us/img/butansn.png" alt="QuickPost" border="0"></a> Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

<a href="http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=playboy006jh8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9573/playboy006jh8.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://img604.imageshack.us/content.php?page=blogpost&files=img411/9573/playboy006jh8.jpg" title="QuickPost"><img src="http://imageshack.us/img/butansn.png" alt="QuickPost" border="0"></a> Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

 

[jimmy the lid]

Great stuff, carouselvic! :eusa_clap

First of all -- that Belmont is an absolute beauty. Is there a hint of blue in that lid? It's gorgeous. With that particular edge treatment, it is actually somewhat reminiscent of my Stetson "Avenue." You're right -- that liner matches the 1948 Royal DeLuxe liner, but with the seam in back. Good to know. Incidentally, does the model name "Belmont" appear anywhere else on this lid? I'm still interested in figuring out whether there was ever a time when certain model names simply appeared on the back of the sweat... I'm just not familiar with the "Belmont" -- have you ever run across any ads for this lid?

Secondly -- that Playboy is a complete anomaly. Wow! Sure looks like a Whippet ribbon to me. Very interesting, since it looks like everything about that lid is original. I have never seen this kind of wide ribbon on a Playboy. Do you have any info on its origins? That's really something.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Dinerman]

the stitched brim edge is a dead giveaway, though.

 

[jimmy the lid]

the stitched brim edge is a dead giveaway, though.

I'm with you, D-man. Sure looks like an original Stetson Playboy to me -- but pretty amazing that it came with such a wide ribbon. Never seen one like it before. Really seems curious, in light of the fact that any kind of ads for the Playboy from that era show the more characteristic narrow ribbon.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Dinerman]

I wonder if it was replaced at some time or if it came from the factory that way. I'm with you, though. Never seen one with anything but a narrow-ish ribbon.

 

[carouselvic]

The Belmont does has a hint of blue in it, it just depends on lighting. Belmont is marked only on the paper tag and I have never seen an advertisement for it, but I'm still hoping to.
The Playboy shows no sign of ever being worn, but once by me. Both of these were ebay hats so no real info on origins. Thanks

 

[Lefty]

The playboy I just sold, and which is still shown in the classifieds, has no stitching on the brim.

the stitched brim edge is a dead giveaway, though.

 

[Lefty]

How about the gold ones?
Notice the different size tags as well, and I'm not sure if the 25 ever had the plastic liner.

 

[carouselvic]

Stetson 25




This sweat is a full 2" wide. Exact age?

 

[DOUGLAS]

Here are a few more liner logos

Some sweat details on the above hat.

 

[carouselvic]

Last Drop 3X


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The hat on the left, with the clear plastic, shows a regular oval Stetson hang tag for this period. The hat on the right, with the oil silk liner, shows a LO, note the reverse of colors. The wide oval and mid ovals are printed with the same color scheme as the LO. I have not come across another tag with the price on it like the LO tag. When it is attached to the sweatband the price was not visible when printed this way. $5.00 an X made that a comparably pricey hat when Stetson's dress hats were going for $12.50 or less. I have a friend from Guymon and she remembers that store. She said it must be a good hat because that store only sold the best.

 

[GWD]

Here is a bowler liner from a hat I just picked up. This was sold from the factory store with a date in the sweat band. It isn't very clear but I enhanced the date and I'm fairly confident it's from the 1920's

 

[GWD]

Jimmy can you help me out on this one?

I'm guessing early 50's. I haven't seen one quite like this though, notice how the gold stamp on the crest is over the coloring.