Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

[jimmy the lid]

I'm guessing early 50's. I haven't seen one quite like this though, notice how the gold stamp on the crest is over the coloring.

GWD -- First of all, thanks for the photos of the 20's bowler. That is some great info, and what a great lid! :eusa_clap

As far as your other liner -- I would guess early 50s, as well. It seems like that liner may well be a transition from the 40's Royal Stetson liner to that of the mid-50's. Here is the liner from the super thin ribbon that I recently posted in the Brotherhood of the Thin Ribbon thread. Like your liner, it has the gold overlay in the upper left quadrant of the shield:

This lid was auctioned along with a Stratoliner, from the same original owner, and purchased at the same store. The Strat's liner, complete with oil silk protector, likely dates to the late 40's or very early 50's. My hunch is that the companion lid was purchased in the same general time period. That's about all I have to go on, but I think that early 50's seems like a very reasonable conclusion.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Dinerman]

here's an old one.

 

[Lefty]

Neat. What's the hat look like?

 

[Dinerman]

the hat's a straw porkpie. 20s from the looks of the bow, with the feathered rear edges, and by the tan, super-wide, pressed edge sweatband. I'll take a picture once I get it steamed out a bit.

 

[gtdean48]

No idea of age...

Didn't see one like this in the thread. Will get a closer shot soon... gtd

 

[carter]

Sticky

This one might be a good Ssticky in the Hats Forum as well.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'll admit that i haven't read every post with the attention i should.

Given the nature of the thread, i assume someone has clearly defined the general eras: Pre-Royal/Imperial, Royal/Imperial, and post-Royal/Imperial.

If not, maybe this would be useful. There is a thread somewhere which i'll try to find. After all this time since i last thought about the issue, my mind has become hazy on the dates, but i recall the introduction of the Royal-type designations (i.e. when we first start seeing these ads) was sometime late 30s or early 1940s. '41 was bandied around by someone, but i'm not certain of the academic rigour of the research.


I typically don't have much good to say about Stetson as a company, but i will praise them on their consistency in liner usage back in the day. A very useful dating tool. I wish i could say as much about Borsalino. They just didn't care about people trying to date hats accurately 70 years after the fact! :rage:

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Also interesting that, from a marketing standpoint, the lightweight Stetsons were compared to the European felts (like Borsalino, I imagine).

Unless they were consciously abusing advertising standards, they are talking about weight only. Certainly not quality. Not close, and no cigar.

But then, that's just an opinion.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The playboy I just sold, and which is still shown in the classifieds, has no stitching on the brim.

The Playboy I own also has no stitching to the brim. I've seen one with a bound edge, even.

The Playboy seems to have been one of those hats that had a vast array of possibilities.

bk

 

[RBH]

I'll admit that i haven't read every post with the attention i should.

Given the nature of the thread, i assume someone has clearly defined the general eras: Pre-Royal/Imperial, Royal/Imperial, and post-Royal/Imperial.

If not, maybe this would be useful. There is a thread somewhere which i'll try to find. After all this time since i last thought about the issue, my mind has become hazy on the dates, but i recall the introduction of the Royal-type designations (i.e. when we first start seeing these ads) was sometime late 30s or early 1940s. '41 was bandied around by someone, but i'm not certain of the academic rigour of the research.


I typically don't have much good to say about Stetson as a company, but i will praise them on their consistency in liner usage back in the day. A very useful dating tool. I wish i could say as much about Borsalino. They just didn't care about people trying to date hats accurately 70 years after the fact! :rage:

bk

Dont know that this will help.. but I ran a search on the paper ARCHIVE between the years 1927 and 1937 and this was the earlist I found Royal Stetson.


This is just the 'Stetson' part of an ad from Ernest Grissoms in The Abilene Morning Reporter News, January 12th 1936. The statement about "The new Royal Stetson introduces copra and sky-grey — new spring shades—10.00.'' would seem to place the ROYAL destination to 1936 at the earliest.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2806/1936royally2.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

by the way found this ad for a Royal Stetson from Wednesday May 20, 1936 from the Blytheville Courier News here in Arkansas.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4886/royalstrawir1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

 

[Brad Bowers]

The statement about "The new Royal Stetson introduces copra and sky-grey — new spring shades—10.00.'' would seem to place the ROYAL destination to 1936 at the earliest.

Seems about right. Out of curiosity, I looked up the trademark filing for "Royal Stetson." It states that the first use of the term in commerce was September 12, 1935, so that's some corroborating evidence for that period. Stetson filed pretty fast on the term, on September 25, and received their registration on March 10, 1936.

Nothing shows up for the "Royal Deluxe" designation though.

Brad

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Do you think we can assume that Stetson disontinued the "Standard", "Premier" etc. designations when they introduced the "Royal" etc.? So, no overlap?

I'm interested as i have a couple of standard quality Stetson fedoras that i'm unsure of the dates on.

bk

 

[RBH]

It would seem some overlap was there .. this from The Albuquerque Journal 08.11.1937....

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4491/83628561bf3.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

The last I found was from The Alton Evening Telegraph in Illinois on 10.23.1940.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8219/32437712qf1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a>

 

[Lefty]

more info.

Sure thing. Below is the inside of the grey Stetson. The lining is silk satin. The Stetson logo on it was used from the 'teens into the mid-1920s.

The Stetson logo below on the sweatband was also used from the 'teens into the '20s.

Finally, the store's logo ("Henry C. Lytton") used this particular design during the 1920s. In the 1930s, the design was changed.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have this chap for sale in the Classifieds. It has a liner that is similar to, but not the same as one that previously appeared here. think it dates from the middle 1950s, and originally cost $15.

bk

 

[SteveS]

Not the best pic, but does anyone know what era this is from? Above the word "Stetson" is a crest with a beaver on both sides.

 

[Dinerman]

'80s through modern, I believe.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Another i have up for sale.

I assume from the dating at the beginning of this thread, that this is middle 1940s. I had always assumed this to be the case but didn't bother doing any research. Thanks to everyone who's contributed here. This is another that i have up in the classifieds.

There is no protector in the top of the liner, and no evidence that there ever was such a thing.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=37578

bk

 

[citRon]

ny idea on this one?

[/IMG]

 

[GWD]

[/IMG]

It looks like 1950 to 60's to me. Maybe even Canadian.

Any ideas Jimmy?