CX FQHH or CX Steerhide?

[moktabe]

Off up to Aero in a few weeks to get measured etc and have been researching here re leather differences. Despite looking and looking I can't really find an answer that would make me jump one way or the other.
Looking at a Hudson and also a Windward jacket. The Windward would be done with a cotton tartan lining as opposed to the alpaca as wouldn't be too bothered re warmth as the Hudson would sort that.
I was sent 2 samples of the CXFQHH in brown, One tumbled and one standard. Initially favoured the tumbled but having had time to play with the standard i.e. folding, screwing up etc I like the way it is starting to react. I feel the tumbled stays as it is no matter what I do with it.
So let's say the tumbled choice has been put to one side. This leads to the question HH or SH.
No worries ref breaking a jacket in at all, that wouldn't be an issue, neither would a jacket being heavyweight. Having had several run of the mill leather jackets over the years, the leather has always been soft and quite flexible and sort of 'fits where it touches'. Are they likely to have been SH or Cowhide?
Not looking for a jacket like a suit of armour but something that retains some sort of shape / structure so, is HH more likely to give that result?
I appreciate the fact I could choose on the spot when up at Aero but thought it might be wiser to ask here for opinions.
Finally, would CX SH be as weatherproof as CXFQHH? I wouldn't wear either if it was pouring down as I was going out but wouldn't want to be put off wearing one if rain was forecast.
Apologies for all the questions but I don't think there's anywhere better to ask them!

 

[Carlos840]

1: I doubt anyone can differentiate cowhide and steerhide, Schott for example uses the same hides for both steerhide and cowhide, for them the names are related to hide grades and finishing process.

2: IMO there is no real noticeable difference between CXLFQHH and CXLSH.
Yes, Steerhide has the potential to be thicker but that is because Aero orders their FQHH at 3.5oz, whereas they order their steer a bit thicker.
Character wise, some say they can tell the difference, the Storse debacle has prooved this to be untrue ( a bunch of steer was sold as horse and no one ever spotted the difference. Some jackets even had a combination of horse and steer.)
IMO all you can say is it depends.
I have seen grain structure that people say is characteristic to HH on SH and seen grain that people say is charactericstic to SH on HH, there is no clear difference and no characteristics that can only be found on one or the other.

3: I don't know what you mean by: "Not looking for a jacket like a suit of armour but something that retains some sort of shape come structure" there is no secret, if you wear a jacket it will soften and mold to your body, SH or HH won't change that. The thickness of the leather is more relevent to that question than whether it cam from a horse or a cow.

4: Both CXLHH and CXLSH are finished with the same process, both will do fine in the rain, even if it was pouring down.
There is no reason to avoid wearing either in the rain.

 

[moktabe]

Hi and many thanks for your reply, very helpful.
The 'suit of armour' comment meant I don't want to end up with a jacket that doesn't have any give in it. On the same hand I don't want one that hangs off me like a pair of cheap curtains
It's clear I'm new to this end of the market when it comes to leather jackets and am very wary of making a boo boo when diving into it.
Thanks again.

 

[Carlos840]

Hi and many thanks for your reply, very helpful.
The 'suit of armour' comment meant I don't want to end up with a jacket that doesn't have any give in it. On the same hand I don't want one that hangs off me like a pair of cheap curtains
It's clear I'm new to this end of the market when it comes to leather jackets and am very wary of making a boo boo when diving into it.
Thanks again.

A leather jacket has no real give, HH or SH won't change anything.
If it hangs of you like a pair of cheap curtains the pattern is bad or the sizing is wrong, but that's nothing to do with Horse VS Steer.

 

[trainspotter]

I would suggest to go for FQHH as your first CXL jacket if buying from Aero. I have both HH & SH CXL jackets from Aero & found the HH to be awesome. The SH is great too, but a bit thicker(& correspondingly heavier) and less 'crunchy' than HH. I have found breaking in HH CXL more fun than SH CX

On cold winter mornings, HH is a bit more rigid than SH, but that changes within minutes of wearing

 

[Monitor]

I can only sign everything @Carlos840 said and just wanna add...

It's clear I'm new to this end of the market when it comes to leather jackets and am very wary of making a boo boo when diving into it.
Thanks again.

...one of the biggest mistakes you can make to get caught up by these crazy technical terms the internet dabbles into; Horsehide, steerhide, cowhide, chrome vs. veg tanned, etc.

As someone who's extensively been learning about leather clothes for over a decade, I can promise you that at the end of the day, the difference is negligible. It's mostly just a marketing ploy.

Case in point, horsehide versus steerhide. The way you have formed your opening post already indicates your conviction that there's a difference between the two hides while there essentially is none. DNA test is the only way to tell them apart.

You see photos of cool jackets by many different makers, made in many different types of hide. It's probably what inspired you to look into getting a quality leather jacket in the first place.
Go with a good brand that guarantees quality leather (leather that hasn't been embossed with fake grain or excessively plasticized, hide that's not too thin, etc.) & pick the one you like the most.
Handing the jacket, leather, trying it on, seeing if & how it fits and if it's comfortable is what matters the most.

I've handled both cowhide and horsehide from Aero and it's difficult for me to say which one I do prefer more. They used to have this cowhide in the early 90's which was rather brilliant and my personal favorite but that's gone now.

 

[moktabe]

^^ Excellent.

Thank you.

 

[handymike]

Steerhide all day long!
As it breaks in, Horween’s steerhide develops beautiful “rolls” and texture. The CXL horse tends to get a “crinkled” look where it gets creased- especially on the front panels. Steerhide mellows and looks absolutely amazing when broken in. Have a look at this beauty:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/show-your-graining.101515/page-7#post-2715109

The jackets that blow me away tend to be Steer.
There are a few threads if you search...here’s one:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...hh-vs-cxl-steerhide-1st-world-problems.97988/

 

[Guppy]

I like both but I think I prefer steer, just slightly. Steer is easier to break in, and develops such amazing character as it ages.

Horse has a tighter grain which may make it slightly more waterproof.

I don't think you can know for sure without a DNA test, but I can guess pretty accurately what the label will say it is when I see the grain close up or if I can handle it in person. So I think there are differences that I've developed an eye for. I'm not sure I can put it into words, but I can pretty reliably tell, at least on a jacket that's been broken in. New, they're much harder to tell apart.

 

[moktabe]

Well one thing I have learnt is that it's more the tanning process than the leather.

I'd always assumed that steer would be softer and a bit more 'floppy' but I now know better. Some of the jacket photos on here are outstanding. Personally I prefer the feel of a heavier weight jacket and the way some of those on here have broken in looks great.

At least I'll be off up to Aero with a bit more knowledge than I started with and will be heading down the cxl route.

Thanks for the help / advice.

 

[jonbuilder]

I do see a difference between horse and steer hide but as others have alluded the difference in the tanning process is a larger factor than horse or steer. In your case, both hides would be from the same tanner, and both CXL so I assume tanned using a very similar process. The other factor Horween may be using steer and cow interchangeably and you could be getting cowhide, not steer hide. I personally lean towards Horweens' CXL horse over CXL steer yet I do find individual jackets made from a particularly fine CXL steer hide that tip the scale. There are steers/cows that will produce a better hide than some horses. Exhibit A, The Aero 50s half belt made from CXL steer that ton ordered from Aero https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/aero-heavyweight-50-half-belt-jacket-8-2-lbs.103912/

 

[jonbuilder]

If you are going to visit Aero many they will let you choose the actual hide they use to make your jacket. I know Johnson Leather will

 

[Harris HTM]

When I started following the lounge, around 10 years ago, the Aero CXL steer was supposed to be a beast that took long to be broken in, quite longer than the FQHH; nowadays it is claimed that it breaks in much faster compared to horse. I guess they changed the thickness they use at Aero?

 

[Guppy]

When I started following the lounge, around 10 years ago, the Aero CXL steer was supposed to be a beast that took long to be broken in, quite longer than the FQHH; nowadays it is claimed that it breaks in much faster compared to horse. I guess they changed the thickness they use at Aero?

They used to have heavier heavyweight, sometimes 4.5+oz stuff. I think their standard weight for both horse and steer is 3.0oz now, and heavy maxes out at 4.0oz. But horse has always been a stiffer leather, at least in Horween's cxl formula, in my experience.

 

[ProteinNerd]

My 1 steer hide jacket broke in a lot faster than my many HH jackets, thus it looked a lot better a lot quicker....It could have just been a one off leather batch or might have been because it was a very slim BR jacket but thats my experience and recommendation.

You can't really go wrong with either choice though.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Let's be frank, this is the Fedora Lounge. It starts with one jacket, and then builds up momentum from there. So make your first jacket, say, steer, then the next one horse, then the next one goat, the fourth deer, and so on, and check 'em all out.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

The tanning process definitely matters more. I personally dislike anything chrome tanned. My favorite leathers are all vegetable tanned. My number one favorite leather is HH, but a very close second is a vegetable tanned cowhide.

 

[AeroFan_07]

This question in different forms, has been asked here many times.

Start Here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...rsehide-appearance-color-handfeel-etc.103497/

Then look here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/why-is-horsehide-better-than-steerhide.31337/

Then give this thread a look: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ait-horsehide-shootout-aero-vs-schott.102446/

 

[moktabe]

Many thanks for the replies guys.

Very helpful.

 

[ton312]

The tanning process definitely matters more. I personally dislike anything chrome tanned. My favorite leathers are all vegetable tanned. My number one favorite leather is HH, but a very close second is a vegetable tanned cowhide.

The irony being modern veg tanned leathers are trying SO HARD to replicate the appearance of their chrome tanned vintage inspirations.